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22.8.07 0506
The 7 - Basketball - Steve Nash wins the MVP
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Kawshen
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#1 Posted on 6.5.05 1620.32
Reposted on: 6.5.12 1620.37
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2005/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2054677

Phoenix Suns guard Steve Nash will be awarded the NBA's Most Valuable Player on Sunday, sources say.

Nash has edged Miami center Shaquille O'Neal to become just the third point guard in 40-plus years to win the league's highest individual honor, according to sources familiar with the results. The others are Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson.

The official announcement will come at halftime of ABC's 3 p.m. ET playoff game.

==============================

Sweet. He's giving Phoenix their $$ worth.

How long until the next ShaQuote since he barely lost? :)

(edited by Kawshen on 6.5.05 1823)
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JoshMann
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#2 Posted on 6.5.05 1641.34
Reposted on: 6.5.12 1641.39
I'm actually all for this. If by chance Miami plays Phoenix in the NBA Finals, it's just what anyone who has to play Shaq DOESN'T need him to have: more motivation.



(edited by Blanket Jackson on 6.5.05 1748)
RYDER FAKIN
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#3 Posted on 6.5.05 1747.05
Reposted on: 6.5.12 1751.06
Blanket Jackson: I'm actually all for this. If by chance Miami plays Phoenix in the NBA Finals, it's just what anyone who has to play Shaq DOESN'T need him to have: more motivation.

If Phoenix plays Miami let Shaq be motivated. He'll need to motivate himself to the oxygen tank.

I'd rather the Suns play the Pistons, just for revenge from last year. By revenge I mean having to sit through boring games. Nash going to Phoenix led me to picking them at the beginning of the season...I don't think he is the best player in the league, but he is far and away the best at what he does and, I believe, more valuable to his team than Shaq, with all do respect to O'Neal. Not sure if the voters made their picks before or after Mourning, of all people, helped Miami win, while Shaq gritted his teeth and gave mad props. Take Nash away from the Suns and you got the Magic.

And just get this amateur hour over already and get to the the good stuff. Suns vs. Spurs and Pistons vs. Heat. Anyone who thinks "all the playoff needs is MORE TEAMS and BYES" is a masochist. Although it is better than pre-August Baseball

Good for Nash. The right choice. I just hope he doesn't break his leg or out a ref for bias. Just win, baby

FLEA
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#4 Posted on 7.5.05 0000.30
Reposted on: 7.5.12 0002.32
Good for him! Who would've thought in a million years that Steve Nash would ever win the MVP award? Besides, being a point guard myself (albeit not a very good one), I'm all about the PGs, so... good on ya, mate! *drinks*...
BOSsportsfan34
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#5 Posted on 7.5.05 1530.19
Reposted on: 7.5.12 1531.50
First he leads the Bad News Bears to a title game, now he wins MVP and probably brings the Suns to the Championship series.

Way to go Kelly Leak...er, Steve Nash.
ekedolphin
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#6 Posted on 7.5.05 2040.38
Reposted on: 7.5.12 2046.19
    Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34
    First he leads the Bad News Bears to a title game, now he wins MVP and probably brings the Suns to the Championship series.


Hee! Well, given that, you think there's any point playing the rest of the playoffs?

EDIT: Oh, something else I thought was interesting. Not that I think the color of a person's skin makes any difference to anything at all, but I checked the list and found out that Steve Nash is the first Caucasian to win the MVP Award since Larry Bird won his third straight in the 1985-86 season.

He's also only the second non-American-born player to win the award. Hakeem Olajuwon did it in 1993-94. Olajuwon was born in Nigeria, and Nash was born in South Africa.

He and Allen Iverson are the only two players under 6'6" to win the award in the last forty years. Nash has the third-lowest scoring average among MVP winners, ahead of only Wes Unseld's 13.8 PPG 1969 season, and Bill Russell's 14.1 PPG 1965 season.

He's the first MVP not to lead his team in scoring since Dave Cowens in 1972-73. And he's only the fourth point guard to win the award, the other three being Bob Cousy, Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson. He's only the sixth guard to win the award if you include Allen Iverson and Michael Jordan with that list.

So it's quite an accomplishment overall.

(edited by ekedolphin on 8.5.05 0146)
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#7 Posted on 9.5.05 0821.46
Reposted on: 9.5.12 0826.16
It's a shame Nash's complete lack of defensive skills were overlooked in this selection.

And I swear EVERY newscast up here is reporting this story like it's the second coming or something. We SO need to pat ourselves on the back in this country it's ridiculous.
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#8 Posted on 9.5.05 0919.20
Reposted on: 9.5.12 0920.52
Good for Nash, and the next generation of fans has their Dave Cowens or Bob McAdoo as MVP-winner. (As in, you scroll the list and it goes KG, Duncan, AI, Shaq, the Mailman, Jordan, Robinson, Hakeem, Barkley, Magic , Bird, Moses, Dr. J, Kareem, Walton...Bob McAdoo (!)...Dave Cowens (?!?!).) They're going to see all of LeBron's MVPs and Duncan's MVPs and Shaq will likely win one any year he plays 75 games and go "STEVE NASH won an MVP?!?!?! Did the whole NBA get injured that year?"

Of course, Steve Nash now has won more MVP awards than Kobe and Isiah combined. Beautiful.
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#9 Posted on 9.5.05 0923.39
Reposted on: 9.5.12 0929.01
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Of course, Steve Nash now has won more MVP awards than Kobe and Isiah combined. Beautiful.


Yeah, all Kobe and Thomas have to comfort themselves in these trying times is their combined five championship rings while Nash, despite being MVP, would have to work a miracle to get his first come June.
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#10 Posted on 9.5.05 1356.57
Reposted on: 9.5.12 1357.26
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    Take Nash away from the Suns and you got the Magic.


If we're going to insist on giving this award to one of the worst defenders in the league, why don't we just give it to Dirk Nowitzki? The Mavericks lose the 2004-2005 MVP over the offseason yet they *somehow* manage to get 6 games better, despite Michael Finley playing like trash and there being really no one else of note on that team. How then? Nowitzki had arguably his best season to date. Without Nash of all people.

On a semi-related note, the Lakers dumped O'Neal and got 22 games worse.
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#11 Posted on 9.5.05 1514.10
Reposted on: 9.5.12 1514.20
People were making this same argument on the radio this morning, but the MVP award isnt about what happens to your former team after you leave. It's about what you are currently bringing to your current team.

The Suns last year won like 33 games, not even reaching .500. This year, they had the best regular season record in the league. Not to take anything away from Shaq, but the Heat were in the playoffs last year too. An argument could be made for Shaq winning the MVP every year, but I think Nash brings waay more to his team this year than Shaq brings to his team this year.
BOSsportsfan34
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#12 Posted on 9.5.05 1656.29
Reposted on: 9.5.12 1657.12
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    ...Dave Cowens (?!?!)


Dave Cowens made the NBA 50 Greatest Players list. Why is it surprising he won an MVP award?
JayJayDean
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#13 Posted on 9.5.05 1706.39
Reposted on: 9.5.12 1707.07
    Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34
      Originally posted by JayJayDean
      ...Dave Cowens (?!?!)


    Dave Cowens made the NBA 50 Greatest Players list. Why is it surprising he won an MVP award?


Well, pretty much all of those other guys are SUPERstars and winning the MVP is typically seen as a vaildation of SUPERstar status, which is why I made the Nash vs. Kobe comparison. Dave Cowens (and McAdoo) are nice players, but SUPERstar doesn't come to mind when I think of Dave Cowens, is all.
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#14 Posted on 9.5.05 2342.58
Reposted on: 9.5.12 2343.41
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Well, pretty much all of those other guys are SUPERstars and winning the MVP is typically seen as a vaildation of SUPERstar status, which is why I made the Nash vs. Kobe comparison. Dave Cowens (and McAdoo) are nice players, but SUPERstar doesn't come to mind when I think of Dave Cowens, is all.


Dave Cowens, in 11 years, averaged 17 points and 14 rebounds, was a seven-time All-Star and won two rings. In his MVP season, he averaged 20.5 ppg, 16 rpg and four assists per game. Bob McAdoo averaged 22 points and just under 10 rebounds per game. In his MVP season, he averaged 34.5 ppg and 14.1 rpg.

That's pretty good. Are those Wilt Chamberlain numbers? Well, no. But both Cowens and McAdoo were big-timers, and definitely worthy MVPs.
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#15 Posted on 10.5.05 0711.21
Reposted on: 10.5.12 0713.39
Looking through the MVP vote totals, what moron gave P.J. Brown of the Hornets an MVP vote?
JayJayDean
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#16 Posted on 10.5.05 0821.01
Reposted on: 10.5.12 0822.41
    Originally posted by Crimedog
    That's pretty good. Are those Wilt Chamberlain numbers? Well, no. But both Cowens and McAdoo were big-timers, and definitely worthy MVPs.



Hey, I can look up stats too. In 1972-73, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar averaged 30.2 ppg, 16.1 rpg, and 5.0 apg. I'm no math expert or anything, but that looks to me MORE points, MORE assists, and the same number of rebounds as Cowens. Now the Celtics won 68 games, but the Bucks won SIXTY. Now I hadn't even looked these up before I made my earlier comment, but AGAIN I'll say it...

...Dave Cowens?!?!?!
Crimedog
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#17 Posted on 10.5.05 1429.28
Reposted on: 10.5.12 1431.50
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by Crimedog
      That's pretty good. Are those Wilt Chamberlain numbers? Well, no. But both Cowens and McAdoo were big-timers, and definitely worthy MVPs.



    Hey, I can look up stats too. In 1972-73, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar averaged 30.2 ppg, 16.1 rpg, and 5.0 apg. I'm no math expert or anything, but that looks to me MORE points, MORE assists, and the same number of rebounds as Cowens. Now the Celtics won 68 games, but the Bucks won SIXTY. Now I hadn't even looked these up before I made my earlier comment, but AGAIN I'll say it...

    ...Dave Cowens?!?!?!


Congratulations on your amazing ability to discern that one number is bigger than another. My point was not that they led the league in anything, but that it's not like the MVP went to Jack Haley those two years.

Here's some more numbers: In the seven seasons from 1970-71 to 1976-77, Kareem won the MVP FIVE times. So it seems to me that McAdoo and Cowens had to seriously impress the voters to win it.
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#18 Posted on 10.5.05 1509.06
Reposted on: 10.5.12 1509.38
    Originally posted by Crimedog
    My point was not that they led the league in anything, but that it's not like the MVP went to Jack Haley those two years.

    Here's some more numbers: In the seven seasons from 1970-71 to 1976-77, Kareem won the MVP FIVE times. So it seems to me that McAdoo and Cowens had to seriously impress the voters to win it.


Well, the players chose the MVP that year, and I don't know what that means but it seems like writers would've more likely taken Kareem statistical superiority into account. Maybe not, back then. It seems like people expected the C's to fall off after Russell retired and since they didn't Cowens got an MVP. (That season was the second after Russell's retirement.) Sounds reasonable to me.

To try and get a better bead on this, I asked my boss, a huge NBA fan during the '70s, about it. He was stumped as to a reason why Cowens would've won before I even gave him (statistical) reasons he shouldn't have, and I'm now totally convinced that in thirty years, people will have the exact same question about Nash, when they put Shaq's numbers and the Heat's win total up against Nash's stats and win total.
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#19 Posted on 11.5.05 0936.11
Reposted on: 11.5.12 0936.15
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by Crimedog
      My point was not that they led the league in anything, but that it's not like the MVP went to Jack Haley those two years.

      Here's some more numbers: In the seven seasons from 1970-71 to 1976-77, Kareem won the MVP FIVE times. So it seems to me that McAdoo and Cowens had to seriously impress the voters to win it.


    Well, the players chose the MVP that year, and I don't know what that means but it seems like writers would've more likely taken Kareem statistical superiority into account. Maybe not, back then. It seems like people expected the C's to fall off after Russell retired and since they didn't Cowens got an MVP. (That season was the second after Russell's retirement.) Sounds reasonable to me.

    To try and get a better bead on this, I asked my boss, a huge NBA fan during the '70s, about it. He was stumped as to a reason why Cowens would've won before I even gave him (statistical) reasons he shouldn't have, and I'm now totally convinced that in thirty years, people will have the exact same question about Nash, when they put Shaq's numbers and the Heat's win total up against Nash's stats and win total.


Not if you put the Suns win totals the previous year against their win totals this year. That will make more sense. Also, how the Suns fared with Nash in the lineup as to when he was out of the lineup. They were a completely different team.

If I had a vote, it would have went to Iverson. Best player in the league this year.
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#20 Posted on 11.5.05 0949.08
Reposted on: 11.5.12 0950.06
Here's some more numbers: In the seven seasons from 1970-71 to 1976-77, Kareem won the MVP FIVE times. So it seems to me that McAdoo and Cowens had to seriously impress the voters to win it.

I see the stat about Kareem's MVPs and come to the opposite conclusion. Since the other guys were close to him statistically, then they got the MVP. Usually, for someone to win that many, he has to be far and away the best. When someone else is close, even if their stats are slightly inferior, then the voters seem to look for a reason to give someone else the MVP. I'd argue that the voters jumped on the Celtics' win total.

Also, in an interesting footnote to that year, Cowens was second team all-NBA. I'd argue the voters messed that one up.


(edited by Corajudo on 11.5.05 0949)
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