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24.10.07 0943
The 7 - Baseball - Swinging 3-0
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Guru Zim
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#1 Posted on 4.5.05 0055.44
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0057.00
The last two nights I have seen players swing on a 3-0 count. Last night the Rockies did it to Trevor Hoffman in the 9th, and today Klesko destroyed a 3-0 pitch into right field.

Is the unwritten rule done in this day and age, or was today just retaliation for last night?

Am I wrong in expecting a bean ball retribution for swinging 3-0?
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The Thrill
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#2 Posted on 4.5.05 0119.17
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0119.21
Nahh.

Guru, going back all the way to high school ball (where, granted, beanballs of any type were discouraged), I've never heard of it being OK to bean a guy if he swung at a 3-0 pitch.

What I have heard of is an old-school belief that if you're in a slump, swing at a 3-0 pitch...if you get a hit, your slumpin' days are done. Sounds like crap to me, though...if you're sitting in the catbird seat (TM Vin Scully?), SIT ON THE DAMN 3-0 BALL. At worst, you're up in the count 3-1, and odds are you'll get to 1st. That's as good as a single in the manager's eyes.

As for other baseball myths...let's just say that if Mark Grace's "slumpbuster" theory holds true, the Brew Crew should be hitting .400 to a man after my years of, uh, "efforts." :-)
drjayphd
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#3 Posted on 4.5.05 0207.22
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0211.24
As for other baseball myths...let's just say that if Mark Grace's "slumpbuster" theory holds true, the Brew Crew should be hitting .400 to a man after my years of, uh, "efforts." :-)

Yeesh. Whatever happened to good old-fashioned naked batting practice? (Mike Redmond, put some more pants on.)
Downtown Bookie
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#4 Posted on 4.5.05 0212.42
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0213.23
Second question first:
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Am I wrong in expecting a bean ball retribution for swinging 3-0?
Yes. Echoing The Thrill's comments, I've never heard of swinging at a 3-0 pitch being on the list of things that would get you brushed back in your next at bat.
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Is the unwritten rule [Take when the count is 3-0] done in this day and age?
I would say so, at least during the current Home Run Happy Era. In times past, when there were fewer home runs and everybody from one through eight wasn't swinging for the fences, managers would normally only give their big boppers the green light in three ball no strikes situations. Earl Weaver's managerial style and offensive philosophy (which was centered around the three-run homer) had a lot to do with killing the idea that players should never swing at a 3-0 pitch. The Mets of the 1980s, led by Weaver disciple Davey Johnson, would frequently be seen taking a cut when hitting three and oh; and, from there, the idea became more and more common place (as did, not so co-incidentally, most of Weaver's offensive strategies).

It's worth noting that just because a batter has the green light on 3-0 he shouldn't be swinging at any pitch in the strike zone. The man at the plate needs to be looking for something he can drive long and hard, usually a fastball belt high and middle in; a pitch anywhere else should be allowed to just go on by. That's why swinging 3-0 is more common now; there are more players putting the ball over the wall than in times past (it just didn't make sense percentage wise to have a guy swing at a 3-0 pitch just so that he would have a better chance of slapping a single over an infielder's head). If the take sign is given 3-0 to a hitter in today's game, it's usually to a young player (or a free swinging veteran) who may not be trusted to have the plate discipline necessary to let a strike go by if it isn't exactly where he needs it to be to send it for a good long ride. And, of course, game situations still count: in the late innings when you're down by more than one run and need base runners the percentage move is to play for the base on balls. At least, that's what I've observed by watching how Major League Baseball has been played through the years.

Grimis
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#5 Posted on 4.5.05 0651.11
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0652.13
If it's 10-0 and you're swining on a 3-0 count, then you deserve it, kinda like stealing a base up by 10. Otherwise, lots of people swing 3-0, especially if they are given the green light and have a good eye.
StaggerLee
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#6 Posted on 4.5.05 0840.06
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0841.07
Its not YOUR fualt generally if your team is leading 10-0. So, are you expected to go up and strike out, just to save the toehr teams feelings? Dont watn to get embarrases? then dont get down by ten runs.
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#7 Posted on 4.5.05 0857.52
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0858.20
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the "unwritten rules" either. The Cards came back from 9-3 to win in the bottom of the 9th earlier this week. Anything is possible. Keep playing to score until the game is over.
StaggerLee
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#8 Posted on 4.5.05 0901.56
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0913.51
I mean, you dont neccesarily have to put the hit and run on, in the bottom of the 8th, up 8 runs, but you dont go up to the plate with the attitude that it would be in poor taste to try to get a hit.
dunkndollaz
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#9 Posted on 4.5.05 0905.19
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0916.52
Jose Reyes of the Mets will swing at 3-0 because he refuses to walk.
Spaceman Spiff
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#10 Posted on 4.5.05 0929.42
Reposted on: 4.5.12 0934.45
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I mean, you dont neccesarily have to put the hit and run on, in the bottom of the 8th, up 8 runs

Why not? The more runs you have, the better chance you have of winning. It's not like a football game where it'd be impossible to come back from 4 TD's down w/ 1 minute left. There's no clock that you're looking to run out. As long as the opposing team has at least 1 out left, they can theoretically score enough runs to come back from any deficit & win. Why open up the possibility (however remote it may be) by shutting down your offense?
Freeway
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#11 Posted on 4.5.05 1215.26
Reposted on: 4.5.12 1216.02
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
      I mean, you dont neccesarily have to put the hit and run on, in the bottom of the 8th, up 8 runs

    Why not? The more runs you have, the better chance you have of winning. It's not like a football game where it'd be impossible to come back from 4 TD's down w/ 1 minute left. There's no clock that you're looking to run out. As long as the opposing team has at least 1 out left, they can theoretically score enough runs to come back from any deficit & win. Why open up the possibility (however remote it may be) by shutting down your offense?


I submit into evidence Game 6 of the NHL's Western Conference Quarterfinals between the Calgary Flames & Vancouver Canucks. The Flames are down 4-0 at one point with no end in sight for the Canucks' drubbing. The Flames somehow manage to tie the game. Many Flames fans felt that the Canucks let up a bit, allowing the Flames to come back and nearly win it. And note that if Vancouver had lost the game, they'd have been eliminated from the playoffs.

Letting up in any sport, at any score, is a bad idea.
JoshMann
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#12 Posted on 4.5.05 1321.16
Reposted on: 4.5.12 1321.58
    Originally posted by Freeway420
      Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
        Originally posted by StaggerLee
        I mean, you dont neccesarily have to put the hit and run on, in the bottom of the 8th, up 8 runs

      Why not? The more runs you have, the better chance you have of winning. It's not like a football game where it'd be impossible to come back from 4 TD's down w/ 1 minute left. There's no clock that you're looking to run out. As long as the opposing team has at least 1 out left, they can theoretically score enough runs to come back from any deficit & win. Why open up the possibility (however remote it may be) by shutting down your offense?


    I submit into evidence Game 6 of the NHL's Western Conference Quarterfinals between the Calgary Flames & Vancouver Canucks. The Flames are down 4-0 at one point with no end in sight for the Canucks' drubbing. The Flames somehow manage to tie the game. Many Flames fans felt that the Canucks let up a bit, allowing the Flames to come back and nearly win it. And note that if Vancouver had lost the game, they'd have been eliminated from the playoffs.

    Letting up in any sport, at any score, is a bad idea.


Please also see Reich, Frank.

I was at the UM-Maryland game and all I remember is the Maryland flag-wavers running up the sidelines every 5 minutes in the 2nd half.

(edited by Blanket Jackson on 4.5.05 1421)
ShotGunShep
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#13 Posted on 4.5.05 1410.00
Reposted on: 4.5.12 1410.49
If you are a home run hitter and there are 2 outs with no one on. Go for it.
Merc
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#14 Posted on 5.5.05 0155.59
Reposted on: 5.5.12 0156.56
    Originally posted by dunkndollaz
    Jose Reyes of the Mets will swing at 3-0 because he refuses to walk.


Welcome to the brave new Jose world!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7066/news

May 4 The New York Times reports New York Mets SS Jose Reyes drew a bases-loaded walk during a 10-3 loss to the Philadelphia Phillies Tuesday, May 3. Prior to that, Reyes had gone 119 plate appearances without drawing a walk
Zeruel
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#15 Posted on 5.5.05 1430.56
Reposted on: 5.5.12 1431.38
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    Please also see Reich, Frank.

    I was at the UM-Maryland game and all I remember is the Maryland flag-wavers running up the sidelines every 5 minutes in the 2nd half.

    (edited by Blanket Jackson on 4.5.05 1421)


You were at a Maryland vs Maryland game? Awesome. (I assume you mean Miami-Maryland, which would make it UM-UM, double awesome. All we need is a Roughriders-Rough Riders game, and the set is complete.)

When I played ball (Starting Catcher...and my knees are PAYING for it these days), Coach wanted us to never swing at the first pitch and sit on 3-0. With 3-2, he wanted us to swing for the fences. We usually hit a mess of fouls on 3-2s and actually went through two relievers in the bottom of the seventh one game. It took them about 50 pitches to get through six batters that inning.

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