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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Kerry: Trickery Kept Voters From Polls Register and log in to post!
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Downtown Bookie
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#1 Posted on 11.4.05 0821.53
Reposted on: 11.4.12 0821.58
Courtesy Michael Kunzelman, Associated Press Writer, by way of Yahoo! News (story.news.yahoo.com):
    Originally posted by the AP
    "Last year too many people were denied their right to vote, too many who tried to vote were intimidated," the Massachusetts senator said at an event sponsored by the state League of Women Voters.

    Kerry supporters have charged that voting irregularities in largely Democratic areas made it difficult for voters to cast ballots in the November election. A lawsuit in Ohio cited long lines and a shortage of voting machines in predominantly minority neighborhoods, but the Ohio Supreme Court dismissed the suit.

    Kerry also cited examples Sunday of how people were duped into not voting.

    "Leaflets are handed out saying Democrats vote on Wednesday, Republicans vote on Tuesday. People are told in telephone calls that if you've ever had a parking ticket, you're not allowed to vote," he said.

Now, I'm extremely skeptical of the possibility that there are real people out there who did not vote because they were this easily duped. However, if there really is someone in the United States who failed to vote in the 2004 Presidential election because someone gave them a leaflet saying Democrats vote on Wednesday, then IMHO that person doesn't deserve to have a vote. More to the point, if I was a candidate for President of the United States, and my chance for victory was dependent on receiving votes from people who decided to stay home election day only because they received a phone call telling them that they can't vote if they have ever received a parking ticket, then I would question why my platform appeals to these people, rather than to voters who have an IQ higher than that of an apple seed.

(edited by Downtown Bookie on 11.4.05 0823)
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Grimis
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#2 Posted on 11.4.05 0839.40
Reposted on: 11.4.12 0846.25
I hope that he is not rehasing this Urban Legend from the 2000 election...
redsoxnation
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#3 Posted on 11.4.05 1046.29
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1048.03
People couldn't vote because there were long lines on Tuesday, yet they weren't going to vote until Wednesday because of Republican dirty tricks, or at all because they had a parking ticket? If Kerry is going to search for excuses for losing, the inability to mobilize the moronic vote might not be the best one if he intends to run in '08. Also, funny how these Democrats remembered to vote on Tuesday the two times Clinton ran.
On the National Holiday for the Election: Are they going to remove Veterans Day as a holiday, because, if not, that is 3 holidays in 3 weeks, and 7 in 10 weeks from beginning of November through mid January. And, how can it be a holiday one year, and not a holiday the other 3 years? Wouldn't that confuse the moronic vote that Kerry couldn't mobilize?
And, on the idea of weekend voting: Forget the problems dealing with religious issues for a moment. Election vs. Football is a victory for football.
spf
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#4 Posted on 11.4.05 1133.23
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1136.37
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    People couldn't vote because there were long lines on Tuesday, yet they weren't going to vote until Wednesday because of Republican dirty tricks, or at all because they had a parking ticket? If Kerry is going to search for excuses for losing, the inability to mobilize the moronic vote might not be the best one if he intends to run in '08. Also, funny how these Democrats remembered to vote on Tuesday the two times Clinton ran.
    On the National Holiday for the Election: Are they going to remove Veterans Day as a holiday, because, if not, that is 3 holidays in 3 weeks, and 7 in 10 weeks from beginning of November through mid January. And, how can it be a holiday one year, and not a holiday the other 3 years? Wouldn't that confuse the moronic vote that Kerry couldn't mobilize?
    And, on the idea of weekend voting: Forget the problems dealing with religious issues for a moment. Election vs. Football is a victory for football.

Set up booths in non-traditional locations. Like football games. Hell, have the stadium give people a free beer for voting ;)
Ozzysun
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#5 Posted on 11.4.05 1138.14
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1139.46
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    If Kerry is going to search for excuses for losing, the inability to mobilize the moronic vote might not be the best one if he intends to run in '08.


LOL
oldschoolhero
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#6 Posted on 11.4.05 1142.58
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1144.00
"If Kerry is going to search for excuses for losing, the inability to mobilize the moronic vote might not be the best one if he intends to run in '08."

Well, Bush had to beat him somewhere. Zing!
DrDirt
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#7 Posted on 11.4.05 1222.07
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1222.30
I always wonder if we should go the route of other countries where they either vote on the weekend or have national elections be a holiday.

Kerry lost because he stood for nothing. As close as the election was, if the Dems had fielded a better candidate, they could have won. I still contend Dean would have run a stronger camapign.

Mostly I wish Dems would just shut up about 2004 and actually get their s**t together. As a lifelong registered Dem, they are doing their best to drive me away.

(edited by DrDirt on 11.4.05 1222)
OMEGA
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#8 Posted on 11.4.05 1248.49
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1248.54
    Originally posted by Downtown Bookie
    Kerry also cited examples Sunday of how people were duped into not voting.

    "Leaflets are handed out saying Democrats vote on Wednesday, Republicans vote on Tuesday. People are told in telephone calls that if you've ever had a parking ticket, you're not allowed to vote," he said.


Now, I was a HUGE Kerry supporter and certainly voted for him without any second thoughts. However, if this is true and people actually fell for it, then the democrats deserved to lose.

(edited by OMEGA on 11.4.05 1350)
drjayphd
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#9 Posted on 11.4.05 1340.39
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1343.08
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    I always wonder if we should go the route of other countries where they either vote on the weekend or have national elections be a holiday.


I've gotta agree with you there on the holiday idea. You'd think that the whole idea of civic participation would suggest that it's good form to give people a day off.

    Originally posted by DrDirt
    Kerry lost because he stood for nothing. As close as the election was, if the Dems had fielded a better candidate, they could have won. I still contend Dean would have run a stronger camapign.

    Mostly I wish Dems would just shut up about 2004 and actually get their s**t together. As a lifelong registered Dem, they are doing their best to drive me away.


Well, maybe they were counting on the ABB bandwagon carrying them through to victory. The fact that it almost DID on its own is telling, and Bush ain't exactly doing much to counteract that (Schiavo, Social Security).
tarnish
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#10 Posted on 11.4.05 1514.27
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1515.56


    I've gotta agree with you there on the holiday idea. You'd think that the whole idea of civic participation would suggest that it's good form to give people a day off.


Slack bastard that I am, I'd totally be in favor of a day off to vote.

At the same time, I tend to see voting as civic duty rather than "participation". You shouldn't have to give people a cookie: the reward for voting is supposed to be voting itself.
Jaguar
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#11 Posted on 11.4.05 1521.28
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1529.04
Right, but there's no reason not to make voting easier for people. Forcing them to cut off from work to go vote just seems rather stupid. And anything we can do to make absentee voting easier would probably be a good idea too.

-Jag
DrDirt
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#12 Posted on 11.4.05 1524.39
Reposted on: 11.4.12 1529.05
    Originally posted by tarnish


      I've gotta agree with you there on the holiday idea. You'd think that the whole idea of civic participation would suggest that it's good form to give people a day off.


    Slack bastard that I am, I'd totally be in favor of a day off to vote.

    At the same time, I tend to see voting as civic duty rather than "participation". You shouldn't have to give people a cookie: the reward for voting is supposed to be voting itself.



I live one hour from where I work. Need to be there at 6:30 am and normally get home lateish (after 7). So I either must vote absentee or make special arrangements. Its not a big deal but in fly over country, you often aren't anywhere near your polling place when at work.

And I agree, I only want informed voters who have an opinion. They don't need to agree with me but they should at least know why they are voting as they are.
BigVitoMark
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#13 Posted on 11.4.05 2220.25
Reposted on: 11.4.12 2220.54
I don't know what you have in the US as far as advance polls, but that seems like a pretty simple solution to me. Here there are one or two days in advance of a general election where you can cast your ballot under the same supervision as you would on election day. In addition, these are often held on the weekend for the benefit of people in DrDirt-like circumstances where it may be difficult to vote on a weekday without missing some time at work.

To have a national holiday on election day, though, is absurd. Maybe you need a few more polling stations. In our last election it took me about twenty minutes to vote, and that includes the time it took me to walk from home to the poll and back. If it literally took all day for a person to vote, there might be something to talk about. To me, this argument sounds like nothing more than a grab at another day off.
Grimis
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#14 Posted on 12.4.05 0701.24
Reposted on: 12.4.12 0701.35
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    And anything we can do to make absentee voting easier would probably be a good idea too.
There is already enough fraud in absentee balloting. Let's not add to the problem.
ges7184
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#15 Posted on 12.4.05 0801.41
Reposted on: 12.4.12 0802.42
I really don't think that many people are not voting because they simply can't. People who want to vote, do. I know that it's not scientific to rely on one's one personal experience and assume everyone is the same way. Still, the people I know who don't vote wouldn't vote if you drove them to the voting station, dropped them off at the front door, and moved them to the very front of the line. And it's just as well, considering how little they know about current events (or care to know, quite frankly).

I think 60% (which I believe is the percentage of the voting age public which voted last time) is about as good as you are going to get in this country at this time. I'm wary about the true intentions of some who want to make voting "easier". Voting wise, I'm a lot more concerned about fraud (on both sides) than I am about voting being too difficult (because it's simply not).
StaggerLee
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#16 Posted on 12.4.05 0809.05
Reposted on: 12.4.12 0810.05
I seem to recall that your employer must allow you to be off to vote, and if you are not able to cast your vote before the begining of your shift, that you have to be let off, and paid, for four hours in order to vote.

Or, am I just imagining this? Or was it just my employers' policy last fall?
DrDirt
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#17 Posted on 12.4.05 0827.39
Reposted on: 12.4.12 0828.00
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I seem to recall that your employer must allow you to be off to vote, and if you are not able to cast your vote before the begining of your shift, that you have to be let off, and paid, for four hours in order to vote.

    Or, am I just imagining this? Or was it just my employers' policy last fall?


I believe you are correct in principle although in practice I doubt it. My point was that we are the bastion of democracy and yet we don't make it as simple and easy as possible in many areas to vote. It's not a Rep or Dem issue but a money issue.

Where I live, a county of over 800 square miles, there are 4 polling places due to the lack of population. Here absentee voting means taking time off work and going into the court house and voting in a little room in the clerk's office. I always vote but I can be flexible.

And I agree somewhat with Grimis that absentee voting not properly handled is rife with possibilities for rigging.
Corajudo
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#18 Posted on 12.4.05 0854.18
Reposted on: 12.4.12 0854.20
I don't know what you have in the US as far as advance polls, but that seems like a pretty simple solution to me. Here there are one or two days in advance of a general election where you can cast your ballot under the same supervision as you would on election day. In addition, these are often held on the weekend for the benefit of people in DrDirt-like circumstances where it may be difficult to vote on a weekday without missing some time at work.

We do have early voting, at least in Texas. For about a month prior to the election, there are designated early voting locations (generally courthouses and some schools and churches). These are open during the week and on either Saturday or Sunday (some locations Saturday, others on Sunday). I understand the difficulties of voting in rural areas because of the sheer distance, but there is no excuse for people who live in urban areas. Regardless, I don't think that there should be a holiday for people in rural areas to vote. Instead, just make sure there is some type of early voting open on a couple of Saturdays before the election. It does take more effort to vote in flyover country, but I would chalk that up as one of the costs of living there.

As far as the employer thing, unless your shift lasts from 7am until 7pm, then they can just tell you to vote before or after work. So, I can see how that wouldn't work well in practice if the manager wanted to be a hard ass.
spf
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#19 Posted on 12.4.05 0922.25
Reposted on: 12.4.12 0927.56
I have to laugh some when people talk about the possibilities of fraud in absentee balloting because that implies that the polls on the day of the election are somehow more secure. Bored and stressed poll workers half-heartedly checking signature books doesn't strike me as much better in terms of guaranteeing voting integrity.

Here's a thought that I know others will disagree with it, but I'll throw it out there to get shot...mandatory voting. You want a democracy, you have to be a part of it. $500 if you don't vote. Set up the polls over the course of a weekend for primaries and local elections, and an entire week for Presidential elections.
Ozzysun
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#20 Posted on 12.4.05 0955.24
Reposted on: 12.4.12 0959.03
    Originally posted by spf
    Set up the polls over the course of a weekend for primaries and local elections, and an entire week for Presidential elections.


That would be cool. Can you imagine the turnout if people had an entire week to vote.
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