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27.11.07 0350
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - ENOUGH OF THIS HHH POLITICS CRAP!!
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Ringmistress
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#1 Posted on 13.4.02 0014.56
Reposted on: 13.4.09 0016.43
I don't know how much more of this I can take. Granted, I like Hunter sometimes, but I don't know what's really going on with him, but neither do you guys. I'm just so tired of people saying he'll never job to this guy or that guy because of Steph or Vince or anybody like that. If you really are being truthful about that, how about some proof?! Real proof from the WWFE offices? I'll be right here waiting.....

still waiting...

Oh, I got this feeling that Jericho will get his title back. ::resumes waiting::

Hey, I thought you guys had connections!

waiting...

By summer you'll all be kissing his ass again anyway.

waiting...

I'm just so annoyed with everybody being so sure about HHH yet not having any solid evidence. Meltzer doesn't count because I'm pretty damn sure he's not there either. CAN SOMEBODY GIVE ME SOME PROOF PLEASE?!?!?!
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spf
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#2 Posted on 13.4.02 0023.04
Reposted on: 13.4.09 0029.01
Couple of things:

1- I haven't liked Hunter in a couple of years now, and I doubt I'll like him by summer.

2 - It's called circumstantial evidence, and sometimes it is overwhelming enough to meet the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. In the case of Hunter vs. the glass ceiling, I think if it hasn't reached that point, it's mighty close.

3- If you want to set a timetable and an amount on how confident you are on that feeling about Jericho getting the title back, let me know because I'd LOVE to get in on the other side of that bet.
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#3 Posted on 13.4.02 1159.39
Reposted on: 13.4.09 1200.03
Hey, if circumstantial evidence can land a man on Death Row, I think folks can use it as a basis to dislike HHH.

On the other hand, I kind of like the "raging bull" vibe he's throwing now (steroid induced or not), sort of a dumbed-down version of the REAL badass vibe Nikita Koloff threw off back in the day.

I figure as long as he doesn't go back to the sophmoric, N.O.D. imitating, ambiguously gay, annoying as hell DX persona, I won't be calling for his violent death any time soon.
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#4 Posted on 13.4.02 1502.38
Reposted on: 13.4.09 1506.14
what did you think was ambiguously gay about dx?
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#5 Posted on 13.4.02 1538.05
Reposted on: 13.4.09 1540.44
One word Notorius FAB...Chyna.
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#6 Posted on 13.4.02 1656.13
Reposted on: 13.4.09 1659.01
DX's ambiguously gay characteristics...

1)Repeatedly pointing to their crotches and saying "suck it" to other guys.

2)HHH and Shawn's attraction to Chyna, who at the time was sporting every masculine characteristics BUT a penis.

3)The time they actually kissed (brief, but it happened) on Raw.

All in all, they seemed to try to skirt that edge of sexuality, just to make people wonder.
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#7 Posted on 13.4.02 1701.24
Reposted on: 13.4.09 1712.06
well, if that's the way you want to look at it.

i keep hearing about the dx kiss but i don't remember it ever happening. every time i hear it mentioned, it's always in the same context as kurt cobain and chris novaselic kissing during the curtain call of their first SNL appearance.
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#8 Posted on 13.4.02 1832.24
Reposted on: 13.4.09 1858.20
as far as i'm concerned everyone just loves to speculate.

hunter was on "off the record" right before 'mania and he was pretty candid about lots of stuff including the backstage politics.

he said what pretty much all the wrestlers say: it's better for everyone if evryone in the business is as over as possible and whatever has to be done to achieve that is what he is willing to do.

it's vince's show and he decides EVERYTHING. if it seems there's a glass ceiling it's because vince wants it there.
spf
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#9 Posted on 13.4.02 2311.50
Reposted on: 13.4.09 2320.40
Well Hunter did make that quote about being "bi" lots of things a few years ago back in Dx.
Travis
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#10 Posted on 15.4.02 0810.50
Reposted on: 15.4.09 0826.09
Yeah, ok.
There's a logical reason Kurt Angle jobs to Triple H every week? I mean, this week they even made it a *non-title* job.
The Triple H over-push is beyond ridiculous. If he's not behind it, Vince must truly see something in Hunter that the paying fans don't. The guy isn't really that over, and isn't any kind of draw, yet is consistently put over everyone else in the promotion.
If it's not politics, Vince has suddenly forgotten how to do business properly. Wrestling is ALL politics, kid. If you don't want people to speculate on those politics, I advise you never visit a "smart" messageboard or website again. Even reading Foley's worked-shoot books gives and indication of how heavey the stench of backstage shennanigans hangs over the biz.
The real test for the "H outta control with the book" theory will be Backlash. Can Hogan's in-ring burying out do Hunter's out-of-the-ring burying? Only time will tell.
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#11 Posted on 15.4.02 0904.30
Reposted on: 15.4.09 0905.31
I never said not to speculate. Hell, I LOVE to speculate. I just don't buy into most of the "smart" speculation about backstage power etc.

I think the reason Triple H is put over everyone else is to make him look like an Undisputed champion.

The first time Hunter got really over they did the same thing. This is why everybody loved him in the first place, right?

I think that if they keep this up and when he eventually turns heel (he has to do that to really get his heat back) the pay-off and subsequent buy-rates will reflect that.

And Vince is just riding this Hogan thing out, making as much money as possible until the buzz fades out. Trying to get as many money matches out of him in the meantime is just good business.
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#12 Posted on 15.4.02 0910.37
Reposted on: 15.4.09 0918.30
I think the reason Triple H is put over everyone else is to make him look like an Undisputed champion
Just like Jericho...no, wait. Even face champions Austin and the Rock jobbed occasionally. And they were/are way more over and effective as draws than the H.

The first time Hunter got really over they did the same thing.
I assume you're referring to his first run as top heel. Which flopped.

This is why everybody loved him in the first place, right?
He's been a heel for the most part. He used to lose during his face-DX days, but then again he was even less over then.

I think that if they keep this up and when he eventually turns heel (he has to do that to really get his heat back) the pay-off and subsequent buy-rates will reflect that.
If a guy isn't a draw as a face, why would anyone care when he turns? See also: Luger, Lex.

And Vince is just riding this Hogan thing out, making as much money as possible until the buzz fades out. Trying to get as many money matches out of him in the meantime is just good business.
So why isn't he pitted against Austin? Better yet...why isn't someone like Austin champ?
Hmmm...
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#13 Posted on 15.4.02 0938.01
Reposted on: 15.4.09 0939.25
His first top heel run flopped?
I meant the one where he became the best "heel" in the business and proved himself worthy of the world championship. NOBODY thought he could carry the WWF but his run with Foley pulled it off. Big time.

Triple H is a better character when he's a heel and he's much easier to "like" as a fan.
He's not a good face and people aren't into him, hence he's not getting the same reaction as he used to when he was THE heel...

I'm not so sure we should be bringing Luger into this... we might jinx H forever.

Don't you think we're going to get Hogan/Austin eventually? WMX9? Austin's first undisputed run...
Trineo
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#14 Posted on 15.4.02 1114.31
Reposted on: 15.4.09 1115.26
I am not sure if it is fully politics on HHH's part, or Vince just being a continuous sucker for over-muscular freaks like HHH. Granted, that could be considered a form of backstage politics on HHH's part, whether he was punished or not for the MSG incident, he was going nowhere until he started taking his vitamins. Everybody has to realize that HHH learned from the master of never-losing, in Shawn Michaels. From the looks of things, it even looks like HHH has gotten better at it than him at it. He is not on the level of Hogan, in terms of never doing jobs, but it isn't the 80's anymore.

That leads me to think what could be happening. Vince is eternally obsessed with marketing big guys, even when some of his best business came from a "normal sized" guy, Steve Austin. The reason Austin worked in the current wrestling environment was he could not only have great matches, but was entertaining on the mic. Back in the 80's (and further back in the history of the WWF), they have always put the Title on the big muscle head of the time (Samartino, Graham, Hogan) and because the TV focused on wrestling, and little was expected from these guys except for the general coming back from the giant monster storylines.

The WWF's run in the 80's is a perfect example of this. Hogan would go on TV, get beat up, come back on TV a couple weeks before the big PPV, and at the PPV get his revenge. This was repeated over and over without a problem because the heels on top were always average to terrible, and the focus was mainly on the crushing the hero and his coming back. The problem now is, because of the Austin era fans are expecting something more out of their top "hero." But in the long run they still take a guy who wins a lot more seriously than a guy who doesn't.

HHH became what he is because Mick Foley agreed to put him over at every PPV until HHH was considered one of the best. HHH has now gone over every guy who could have used the same thing that Foley gave to him. I am not talking about doing it to the same degree, but losing to Jericho clean once wouldn't have killed HHH. The line about "wins and loses not mattering" is a load of crap.

The fans care just as much about a winner as they do an interesting story. To use a baseball reference, while the Red Sox will always be a popular team in baseball, they will always be second fiddle to the Yankees (and I hate saying that, being a Red Sox fan) because the Yankees always win. The same can be said in wrestling, while fans from the 80's will probably remember guys like Savage, Steamboat, and Santana, they will never forget Hulk Hogan because when push came to shove he won.

HHH knows this and he is trying to do the same thing. The problem is because they are on TV every week and there are so few "top guys" those guys just under main event status keep losing to guys like HHH and thus damper their image to the fans.
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#15 Posted on 15.4.02 1120.18
Reposted on: 15.4.09 1129.01
Trineo, that was so eerily accurate. Obviously, to say the least, SOMEONE has been paying attention.
Bra-vo.
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#16 Posted on 15.4.02 1331.52
Reposted on: 15.4.09 1334.36
"HHH became what he is because Mick Foley agreed to put him over at every PPV until HHH was considered one of the best. HHH has now gone over every guy who could have used the same thing that Foley gave to him. I am not talking about doing it to the same degree, but losing to Jericho clean once wouldn't have killed HHH."

What you are saying is that HHH is what he is because Foley put him over on three straight ppv's. By this logic Jericho should have become just as big by beating Rock at three consecutive ppv's just last year. Heck, Rock is a much bigger name and draw than Foley so Jericho should be even bigger right? It just didn't happen and it wasn't because of politics. Most of the blame needs to go straight to Jericho.

Why should HHH have jobbed to Jericho clean? Jericho was never very over as a heel, and HHH just came back from a big time injury. Jobbing HHH to Jericho, clean no less, would have done more to damage HHH than help Jericho.

And before you say Rock's jobs to Jericho didn't mean as much as Foley's to HHH because they weren't totally clean, let me say this. There are no top faces in the WWF who job clean. None. Foley did it because he was on the way out and therefore he could afford to. The faces win clean and the heels cheat to win. That's the way it is. They follow a pattern, it is not political.
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#17 Posted on 15.4.02 1400.33
Reposted on: 15.4.09 1402.15
Triple H's first heel run was dead in the water for the six months...it wasn't until after he

a) married Steph
b) got put over top guys (Foley) clean

that he began to get really consistent heat. If the WWF was seriously about pushing Angle or Jericho as top heel, all they have to do is make them the equal of the top faces. Angle's wins over Austin this past summer have been basically forgotten in favour of making him the goofy Olympic hero again.


    DX's ambiguously gay characteristics...

    1)Repeatedly pointing to their crotches and saying "suck it" to other guys.

    2)HHH and Shawn's attraction to Chyna, who at the time was sporting every masculine characteristics BUT a penis.

    3)The time they actually kissed (brief, but it happened) on Raw.

    All in all, they seemed to try to skirt that edge of sexuality, just to make people wonder.


Let's not forget that Billy Gunn and X-Pac were in this faction, which is is proof enough right there.
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#18 Posted on 15.4.02 1401.39
Reposted on: 15.4.09 1402.33
Okay, you have to remember one very important difference between when Foley jobbed to HHH and when Rock jobbed to Jericho: Between WMX7 and X8 wrestling in general sucked (not all of it, but a lot) and in 1999-2000 it did not. The Invasion/Alliance angle tanked, big time, and while I enjoyed some of it, I hated most of it. Jericho/Rock came at the tale end of that period of suckiness, and then Jericho's title win Vengeance was overshadowed by Triple H's return. Then Triple H's return AND Jericho's title run were overshadowed by the nWo and Steph.

Rocky may have been able to do the same thing for Jericho that Mick did for HHH, if most fans hadn't hated the product at that point.

-Jag
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#19 Posted on 15.4.02 1410.52
Reposted on: 15.4.09 1411.57

    Originally posted by mskj
    And before you say Rock's jobs to Jericho didn't mean as much as Foley's to HHH because they weren't totally clean, let me say this. There are no top faces in the WWF who job clean. None. Foley did it because he was on the way out and therefore he could afford to. The faces win clean and the heels cheat to win. That's the way it is. They follow a pattern, it is not political.



I agree with this and it's not HHH's fault, but it's not "just the way it is" either.It's a big problem that they need to address.
spf
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#20 Posted on 15.4.02 1424.39
Reposted on: 15.4.09 1429.03
Also Foley went down clean to HHH twice in a way that no one could dispute. Rock's losses to Jericho were so fraught with screwjobs and most importantly outside interference that there was nothing to be gained at all for Jericho in those matches.
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