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26.7.07 0217
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - GOP Bill to Reinsert Schiavo Feeding Tube Signed by Bush
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too-old-now
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#61 Posted on 22.3.05 1400.04
Reposted on: 22.3.12 1400.49
The big difference, if the dog could eat on its own, you'd happily feed it. Otherwise, you'd put it down, else it would starve itself to death.

Nobody would put a feeding tube in a dog. If you couldn't bring yourself to take a shotgun to it, you might bring it to a vet to either have it "put to sleep" or perhaps give it painkiller injections.

Michael Schiavo obviously did not mention Terri's wishes until after the settlement was finalized because he was likely advised by his attorneys NOT to, as it could jeapordize the negotiations. They likely had an inkling about the Schindler's wishes and knew they could be in for a long battle and lots of medical/legal expenses. But he TURNED DOWN a huge amount of money to divorce her and walk away, so he could honor his wife's wishes - money was not his motivation.

AWArulz, I'll follow your lead to make this my last post in this thread. Despite the Schindler's actions, I do feel sorry for them as they are going through a terrible time. I hope they, Michael, the judges, and everyone else involved, all find peace. For Terri, Rest in.

I'll admit to still being too angry at Congress and the Bush administration to be able to wish that for them.
messenoir
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#62 Posted on 22.3.05 1530.47
Reposted on: 22.3.12 1531.17
    Originally posted by AWArulz
      Originally posted by too-old-now
      Who would keep feeding a dog that cannot interract with its environment? It would be "inhumane".


    Everyone. You would too. Is there one person here that would just stop feeding an old dog and let it die? I wouldn't. I'd take it to the vet and have it put down and hold the damn old dog in my lap until it stopped breathing.

    But this isn't a dog. It's a person, (or as someone called Terri "A Piece of meat") and we can treat her any way we want.

    This'll be my last post in the thread. I'm sorry I got involved in it at all. I just don't understand some of the logic and hate for the parents of this woman. Don't you see what they're going through?


Yes, I do. I also hate what the husband is going through. I also hate what Terri is going through. Perhaps we should let them go through it in peace, without hurling insults, slander and trying to decide who is a horrible, slumbag liar and who is not.

At least, that's what I'd want the public and politicians to do for me if I were in any of their shoes.
DrDirt
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#63 Posted on 22.3.05 1541.29
Reposted on: 22.3.12 1543.34
    Originally posted by AWArulz
      Originally posted by too-old-now
      Who would keep feeding a dog that cannot interract with its environment? It would be "inhumane".


    Everyone. You would too. Is there one person here that would just stop feeding an old dog and let it die? I wouldn't. I'd take it to the vet and have it put down and hold the damn old dog in my lap until it stopped breathing.

    But this isn't a dog. It's a person, (or as someone called Terri "A Piece of meat") and we can treat her any way we want.

    This'll be my last post in the thread. I'm sorry I got involved in it at all. I just don't understand some of the logic and hate for the parents of this woman. Don't you see what they're going through?


This is also my last as this is like arguing abortion. I have great empathy for her parents but also for her husband. I think most of the hate really is directed at the situation and not the people (However, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth.). If I were in this situation I don't know what I would do and I have watched far too many friends and relatives live through many variations of situations like this.
Leroy
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#64 Posted on 22.3.05 1549.38
Reposted on: 22.3.12 1549.59
Apparently, Bush signed a law in 1999, while Governor of Texas, that dealt with this very issue.

The following is a blog, but is written by one of the co-authors of the Texas law. It's non-partisan and simply describes the law and the process by which it was passed.

Life-Support Stopped for 6-Month-Old in Houston

In a nut shell, the law allows for the withdrawal of life support even if the family objects. In fairness, the addition that applied to minors was passed after Bush became President, but nonetheless the law directly deals with care for patients whose prognosis is grim.

Of course, part of the decision rests with whether or not the family can afford to pay for care at another institution, and whether that institution would even accept the patient.

Had Shiavo lived in Texas, it's a safe bet that none of this congressional grandstanding would be occurring...

(edited by Leroy on 22.3.05 1351)
Eddie Famous
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#65 Posted on 22.3.05 1718.08
Reposted on: 22.3.12 1718.18
When a murderer is sentenced to die, court appeals automatically kick in and are carried out to the fullest possible.

Mrs. Schiavo's crime is that her husband doesn't want her on life support anymore. I don't see anything wrong with appealing that decision to the fullest possible.

It's most unfortunate that it comes down to she said/no she didn't, with no proof other than hearsay.

My family is to give me a week, and if I don't come back then I like where I am. Then drain me, farm me and burn me.

I hope everyone posting in this thread has signed their donor card....

vsp
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#66 Posted on 22.3.05 2016.58
Reposted on: 22.3.12 2017.38
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    When a murderer is sentenced to die, court appeals automatically kick in and are carried out to the fullest possible.

    Mrs. Schiavo's crime is that her husband doesn't want her on life support anymore. I don't see anything wrong with appealing that decision to the fullest possible.


She is neither a "criminal" nor being punished. If anything, if nineteen court hearings have consistently interpreted her perceived wishes correctly, she's being _helped_. The "appeal process" of which you speak _was_ applied over and over and over again over the last several years, exhausting every last recourse under state law, which is where it would have ended had Tom DeLay not decided to piddle on the Constitution.

This is an intervention (or, rather, a removal of unwanted intervention) in the name of mercy, not an execution in the name of vengeance or punishment.
Eddie Famous
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#67 Posted on 22.3.05 2051.29
Reposted on: 22.3.12 2051.29
"if nineteen court hearings have consistently interpreted her perceived wishes correctly"

IF and PERCEIVED are awfully important words here.

"This is an intervention (or, rather, a removal of unwanted intervention) in the name of mercy"

Starvation is mercy.

Remember folks, if the woman could swallow food, she would not be allowed to die. SWALLOWING FOOD will make the difference between life and death, not whether she recognizes or interacts with people.

If it has to be done, it's too bad, as others have suggested here, she couldn't be humanely euthanized.

No, you wouldn;t stick a tube down a dog's throat for the rest of it's life to keep it fed, but you wouldn't starve it either, it would be euthanized.
Crimedog
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#68 Posted on 22.3.05 2330.36
Reposted on: 22.3.12 2334.30
One of my coworkers said something tonight that I thought was pretty damn brilliant:

"I don't ever want to hear the GOP complain about 'activist judges' ever again."
Kei Posiskunk
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#69 Posted on 23.3.05 0237.05
Reposted on: 23.3.12 0237.06
I've been listening to a local radio show on this for the past 3 days now, and almost every caller says that not ONLY do they believe that Schiavo should not have her tube removed, but that almost UNILATERALLY they believe that her accident was no accident at all, and that it was actually a botched murder attempt by Michael Schiavo. I have no idea what information they're basing that on, but for almost every caller to have that belief, there must be some sort of information that's surfaced that I've not managed to pick up on. If anyone knows where they're getting that from, could they point me in that direction??
StaggerLee
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#70 Posted on 23.3.05 0812.32
Reposted on: 23.3.12 0814.51
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1025118/posts
Micheal blocks bone scan that may show abuse.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/975507/posts
Caregivers claim they heard Terri talk

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/22/122830.shtml
Caregiver claims Michael tried to kill Terri with Insulin

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/22/235813.shtml
Two more caregivers claim Michael withheld care/therapy


As far as the complaint about activist judges and the GOP, isnt congress elected to represent thier people of thier home state? If they had enough calls/letters/email about the case, are they wrong to support turning the matter over to another judge for one more review? Just asking, I am torn personally on this issue, so its not like I am taking one side over another.

EDIT: THis is the text of the bill passed. It seems pretty clear to me, that it is only designed to have one final judge look at the facts, and to render a judgement.



    AN ACT

    For the relief of the parents of Theresa Marie Schiavo.

    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,


    SECTION 1. RELIEF OF THE PARENTS OF THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO.

    The United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida shall have jurisdiction to hear, determine, and render judgment on a suit or claim by or on behalf of Theresa Marie Schiavo for the alleged violation of any right of Theresa Marie Schiavo under the Constitution or laws of the United States relating to the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain her life.

    SEC. 2. PROCEDURE.

    Any parent of Theresa Marie Schiavo shall have standing to bring a suit under this Act. The suit may be brought against any other person who was a party to State court proceedings relating to the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain the life of Theresa Marie Schiavo, or who may act pursuant to a State court order authorizing or directing the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain her life. In such a suit, the District Court shall determine de novo any claim of a violation of any right of Theresa Marie Schiavo within the scope of this Act, notwithstanding any prior State court determination and regardless of whether such a claim has previously been raised, considered, or decided in State court proceedings. The District Court shall entertain and determine the suit without any delay or abstention in favor of State court proceedings, and regardless of whether remedies available in the State courts have been exhausted.

    SEC. 3. RELIEF.

    After a determination of the merits of a suit brought under this Act, the District Court shall issue such declaratory and injunctive relief as may be necessary to protect the rights of Theresa Marie Schiavo under the Constitution and laws of the United States relating to the withholding or withdrawal of food, fluids, or medical treatment necessary to sustain her life.

    SEC. 4. TIME FOR FILING.

    Notwithstanding any other time limitation, any suit or claim under this Act shall be timely if filed within 30 days after the date of enactment of this Act.

    SEC. 5. NO CHANGE OF SUBSTANTIVE RIGHTS.

    Nothing in this Act shall be construed to create substantive rights not otherwise secured by the Constitution and laws of the United States or of the several States.

    SEC. 6. NO EFFECT ON ASSISTING SUICIDE.

    Nothing in this Act shall be construed to confer additional jurisdiction on any court to consider any claim related--

    (1) to assisting suicide, or
    (2) a State law regarding assisting suicide.

    SEC. 7. NO PRECEDENT FOR FUTURE LEGISLATION.

    Nothing in this Act shall constitute a precedent with respect to future legislation, including the provision of private relief bills.

    SEC. 8. NO AFFECT ON THE PATIENT SELF-DETERMINATION ACT OF 1990.

    Nothing in this Act shall affect the rights of any person under the Patient Self- Determination Act of 1990.

    SEC. 9. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS.

    It is the Sense of Congress that the 109th Congress should consider policies regarding the status and legal rights of incapacitated individuals who are incapable of making decisions concerning the provision, withholding, or withdrawal of foods, fluid, or medical care.


(edited by StaggerLee on 23.3.05 0816)

(edited by StaggerLee on 23.3.05 0819)
Grimis
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#71 Posted on 23.3.05 0836.29
Reposted on: 23.3.12 0836.33
Upon reading the bill in full text(which I haven't done until Stagger posted it) I think it is clear that the bill is unconsitutional:

No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

I think that this is a pretty straightforward bill of attinder insofar as attempting to punish the husband, no matter how much of a bastard he is.
eviljonhunt81
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#72 Posted on 23.3.05 0943.59
Reposted on: 23.3.12 0944.04
Free Republic and Newsmax? Seriously.


    As far as the complaint about activist judges and the GOP, isnt congress elected to represent thier people of thier home state? If they had enough calls/letters/email about the case, are they wrong to support turning the matter over to another judge for one more review?


Somehow, I don't the letters and calls came pouring in.
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#73 Posted on 23.3.05 0944.06
Reposted on: 23.3.12 0945.00
Grimis, I dont see that, could you elaborate on it a bit? As far as I read, and I may very well be wrong, the bill states that IF the schindlers bring suit, that the state of Florida shall be the one to hear the case, and nothing more really than that.
What am I missing?

As far as the poll, exactly how many people have to complain about something or lobby for (or against) something before its okay for congress to take action?

(edited by StaggerLee on 23.3.05 0947)
eviljonhunt81
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#74 Posted on 23.3.05 0952.56
Reposted on: 23.3.12 0954.12
I don't really care how many people complain to Congress, as I believe we elect Congressmen to make their own decisions and not to rely on polls. I was just pointing out that they probably didn't receive many letters/calls about this issue.

Also, anybody know if anything else happened with this nut?
Grimis
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#75 Posted on 23.3.05 0955.58
Reposted on: 23.3.12 0956.03
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Grimis, I dont see that, could you elaborate on it a bit? As far as I read, and I may very well be wrong, the bill states that IF the schindlers bring suit, that the state of Florida shall be the one to hear the case, and nothing more really than that.
    What am I missing?
Bills of attainder are bills that relate to one individual in one specific instance, usually in cases to exert punishment on one particular individual. In this case, the bill is written specifically for the Terri Schiavo case, and the bill punishes Michale Schiavo's legal rights as the decision maker with legal standing in the case.
Eddie Famous
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#76 Posted on 23.3.05 1204.06
Reposted on: 23.3.12 1205.08
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    I was just pointing out that they probably didn't receive many letters/calls about this issue.



You would be extremely wrong.

All three of the legislators our station has talked to in the past few days say they've received TONS on correspondence regarding this.
eviljonhunt81
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#77 Posted on 23.3.05 1210.47
Reposted on: 23.3.12 1212.13
Before or after the vote? That probably made a huge difference.

You're right, though. I wasn't thinking about how well organized the Christian Right is when it comes to contacting Congressmen.
ges7184
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#78 Posted on 23.3.05 1250.33
Reposted on: 23.3.12 1250.56
Just to add a note, apparently Schiavo is still being medicated, so she shouldn't be suffering (if that is even still possible in her state). I thought I would add that, since some of the discussion has been about the possible suffering from her starvation, and maybe raising questions about assisted suicide as a result.
Roy.
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#79 Posted on 23.3.05 1640.10
Reposted on: 23.3.12 1643.45
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    >Also, anybody know if anything else happened with this nut?


Well, he's one of the guys who is claiming that Michael tried to murder Terri and has been trying to cover it up for years now. I know he was arrested trying to sneak into the hospital with bread and water for Terri a few days ago. Of course she can't very well eat it, but I guess it's a nice thought.

Of course, Gritz also wound up a chief negotiater at Ruby Ridge (after originally being told to stay the hell away), he was on the hunt for the abortion clinic bomber a few years ago, and I think he's the guy who went into Vietnam with a bunch of guys on special ops missions to get the POWs out. The man marches to his own drum, and he's extraordinarily right wing. I think he's even a militia founder, if I'm not mistaken.
eviljonhunt81
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#80 Posted on 23.3.05 1647.06
Reposted on: 23.3.12 1652.08
    Originally posted by Roy.
    and I think he's the guy who went into Vietnam with a bunch of guys on special ops missions to get the POWs out.


He's Rambo?!?! Awesome.

This is good too: Terri Shiavo to become Elian 2005?

(edited by eviljonhunt81 on 23.3.05 1647)
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