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|Y!: ||#1 Posted on 3.3.05 2045.37 |
Reposted on: 3.3.12 2046.14
| Back when old Saddam was in power, it was understood that he was funding suicide bombing in Israel by Palestinians.|
This article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm) says the PALF (Palestinian Arab Liberation Front) says that each sucide bomber received $10,000 per family or as much as $25,000 per family for suicide bombers from Saddam and that he had paid out over 25 million for these bombers.
But Saddam is out of power and in jail and the bombings continue, both in Israel, the PA and in Iraq. Obviously, the money wasn't the motivation, so what is?
I understand the arguement of the persecuted people attacking any way they can - but tell me - why does this seem to be limited to the Arab nations? Why were there very few suicide bombings in the years of "the troubles" between the Irish and English? How about in Chechnya? There has been an incident or two, but it isn't the weekly exercise we see in Israel/PA/Iraq. But I think we'd agree that Chechnya is just as occupied and denied self-determination as the Palestinians claim they are. Why didn't the blacks in South Africa use suicide bombers to advance their agenda over the 50 years of aparthide?
I hate to post another thread on religion, but do you think the seemingly twisted version of Islam theology voiced and promlugated by the Wahhabi sect within Islam has any effect on the number of these bombings? It is Wahhabism that says that the person who dies in Jihad will go straight to heaven and all that. (You know, the 72 virgins thing)
I'd say the answer is: yes. The fundamentalism and rejection of any relaxation of the Muslim law allows people to think of Non-Muslims as non-people. This regression to the 8th century allows this action without any problem.
How can you fight this? How can you NOT fight this?
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|#2 Posted on 3.3.05 2112.42 |
Reposted on: 3.3.12 2113.05
| If the Catholic Church said that anybody who died for "Cause X" would go to Heaven, I'd think you'd get the same thing. But for the most part, Christianity as a whole doesn't leave any "surefire" ways to get into Heaven, and even threatens to send believers to Hell for doing the wrong things. If Western culture wasn't so uneasy about what exactly happens when we die, I think we'd see a lot more of this around the world.|
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|#3 Posted on 3.3.05 2248.33 |
Reposted on: 3.3.12 2248.42
| Jag, many Protestants believe that all one needs for salvation is belief in Jesus.|
To some, that is surefire, it just doesn't involve any singular suicidal act.
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|AIM: || ||#4 Posted on 4.3.05 0214.24 |
Reposted on: 4.3.12 0215.14
Originally posted by Jaguar
If the Catholic Church said that anybody who died for "Cause X" would go to Heaven, I'd think you'd get the same thing. But for the most part, Christianity as a whole doesn't leave any "surefire" ways to get into Heaven, and even threatens to send believers to Hell for doing the wrong things. If Western culture wasn't so uneasy about what exactly happens when we die, I think we'd see a lot more of this around the world.
Aside from any ambiguity about a possible afterlife, Western culture places a different value on life and death, I think. The Japanese, for example, have a tradition of honorable suicide, something not found in our cultural heritage. Suicidal traditions, whether Japanese or Islamic, seem, to me, to glorify death in a way. Looking at our own culture, we glorify the sacrifice of our soldiers, and we honor them for what they died to preserve. To us, death is not an end in itself, but sometimes a necessary means. To Islamicists, it seems, a martyr's death is an end in and of itself. Whether these suicide bombers are being manipulated by more rational actors, etc., is another question, but they certainly seem to believe that they are accomplishing something simply by dying "well."
And, like AWA said, it is in many ways an 8th century mentality.
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|#5 Posted on 4.3.05 1434.44 |
Reposted on: 4.3.12 1440.34
Originally posted by PalpatineW
Aside from any ambiguity about a possible afterlife, Western culture places a different value on life and death, I think... Looking at our own culture, we glorify the sacrifice of our soldiers, and we honor them for what they died to preserve. To us, death is not an end in itself, but sometimes a necessary means. To Islamicists, it seems, a martyr's death is an end in and of itself.
Taking extreme points from other cultures and comparing them to the death of our soldiers is a pretty unfair comparison. Admittedly, I don't exactly know what you mean by "Western culture" or "our culture". I think you might be making assumptions that aren't necessarily true - I'm not sure.
Personally, I don't separate out Islam from my "culture", as my Islamic friends are just as much a part of my community as my Christian and Jewish friends.... but I digress.
All "cultures" have their own way of expressing the value of a human life. While there might be a varying degree of value, they are all pretty much equal. It's the extreme points of view that muddy the waters.
Or take extreme points of view in the US - white supremacists, Army of God, etc. All of these represent aspects of "Western culture" that views life much differently than the typical person. Dare I mention the lowest of the low point of "Western culture"?
The death penalty is very ritualistic - something that a number of other "cultures" view as an extremely barbaric practice - and they would argue that our continued practice demonstrates a low value of human life.
It's all pretty relative - everyone thinks they are more superior. THAT's the main problem, IMO.
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|#6 Posted on 4.3.05 1458.40 |
Reposted on: 4.3.12 1459.02
| Leroy, no matter if muslims live in the West, there IS a distinct Western Civilization and Culture. No ifs and or buts about it. |
Human thoughts and ideas are passed on through time in our cultures. Here is a good example... In the 17th century, the Divine Right of Kings was just accepted. It made perfectly good sense to people. Fast forward to the end of the to 1789, the French Revolution. The King(LouisXVI) was not totally deposed, he was forced to sign a constitution. The people could have thrown him out of power, but they didn't. Those old ideas still lingered.
Fastforward to the Spring of 1848. Revolutions happen everywhere in Europe(save England). There is NO chance for a monarchy in France. Louis-Phillipe flees town. The 2nd Republic is established.
I'm not sure if I illustrated my point well. But my point is that different histories give us different ideas.
Can you honestly tell me that the Palestinians don't glorify suicide/homicide bombings? That the culture doesn't celebrate this act?
Or a better example of cultural impact on thought. Some in the East believe in Reincarnation. This certainly changes your views on life and death, doesn't it? Wouldn't you say Buddhists have a different value system than your average westerner?
I wasn't sure if I should link Huntington. I know the-w will be split and I don't want to debate him or his ideas. But I just thought that he explains cultural difference and its implications better than I
(edited by ShotGunShep on 4.3.05 1301)
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