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19.9.07 2103
The 7 - Basketball - Knicks/Raptors Blockbuster Trade Proposed
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Kawshen
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#1 Posted on 14.12.04 1452.58
Reposted on: 14.12.11 1452.59
I hate this trade. I REALLY hate this trade. Please don't let this trade happen.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Sports/2004/12/14/781739-sun.html

the Knicks and Raptors continue to talk seriously about a multi-player transaction that would send Vince Carter, Jalen Rose and one or two more players to the Garden for Allan Houston, Tim Thomas, Jerome Williams and one or two other players.

Some draft picks and cash might be exchanged as well.

Trade talks are heating up, since December 15th is the first day many player may be traded.

Stephon Marbury appears to be the only player on the Knicks roster who is untouchable, while Nazr Mohammed and Jamal Crawford are not untouchable, but Thomas will be reluctant to trade either player.
===============

Have I mentioned that I hate this trade?
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dunkndollaz
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#2 Posted on 14.12.04 1523.06
Reposted on: 14.12.11 1523.08
I don't like it either. The Raptors would have to be smoking some fine canadian weed for them to take Allan Houston and his already arthritic and hurting knees. Marc Berman from the NY Post seems to think that Zeke will try to deal Jamal Crawford (and a passel of players) for Vince Carter on 12/15 - the first day trades can be made. True, Jamal has never taken a shot that he couldn't miss but he's a player that is actually playing in NYC instead of cashing his checks and trying out for a spot on Page Six.
JoshMann
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#3 Posted on 14.12.04 1533.19
Reposted on: 14.12.11 1533.25
It's not really a good place for Carter to end up, either. If he does that Shrinking Violet After Getting Knocked Around routine that he does in Toronto, the fans and the media in New York will absolutely eat him alive for it.

But then again, it was about time for Trader Zeke to get busy. I just wonder what this may do to the rumored Eddie Jones-and-change for Jalen Rose deal that was rumored to be on the table.
MoeGates
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#4 Posted on 14.12.04 2310.08
Reposted on: 14.12.11 2310.40
To all who hate this trade: Don't be stupid.

I love Allan Houston. I loved him when he was with Detroir. I was pleased as punch when they brought him over here. But Houston (nagging injuries and all) and Carter (nagging injuries and all) are just not a comparison. Tim Thomas has done zero since he got here. I expected Stephon to get him going. Nope. Him for Rose is a gimmee. Jerome Williams I hope they hang onto (and Kurt Thomas) as the Knicks should have learned their lesson about trading away their checking line already. But even one of them in the deal might be a necessary evil. They should probably try to throw Penny in the deal if they're going to take Rose though, and keep Williams.
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#5 Posted on 15.12.04 1149.32
Reposted on: 15.12.11 1150.35
Make no mistake, if we can get rid of Mr. Fugazy, that's fine with me. This team needs defense and some form of a front-court presence and this trade doesn't supply it at all.
Quezzy
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#6 Posted on 15.12.04 1720.00
Reposted on: 15.12.11 1720.05
How many more years does Houston have on that contract of his?
LionJeetSingh
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#7 Posted on 15.12.04 1752.24
Reposted on: 15.12.11 1753.19
Any Raptor fan who hates this trade does not understand the NBA.

Rose and Carter are maximum salary guys who are EATING away cap space. Neither has performed up to expectations.

This leaves a lot of off season positioning. Ray Allen has said repeatedly that he would love to play for Toronto as it is one of his favourite cities. I believe he's a free agent this year or next, can't remember. But the Raps will free up enough salary to sign him.

Houston and Crawford would be a bonus. Also, JYD would return home.

(edited by LionJeetSingh on 15.12.04 1552)
JayJayDean
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#8 Posted on 17.12.04 1353.47
Reposted on: 17.12.11 1356.30
It appears the Nets are ready to get Carter.

The Raptors would acquire Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and two first round draft picks in exchange for Carter.

Other than the two first-rounders, this may be the suckiest option I've heard, if you're a Raptors' fan. 'Zo + the two Williamses?! That's IT?!
BOSsportsfan34
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#9 Posted on 17.12.04 1417.33
Reposted on: 17.12.11 1417.43
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    It appears the Nets are ready to get Carter.

    The Raptors would acquire Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and two first round draft picks in exchange for Carter.

    Other than the two first-rounders, this may be the suckiest option I've heard, if you're a Raptors' fan. 'Zo + the two Williamses?! That's IT?!


I think this trade might hurt both teams. NJ now has only Collins and Scalabrine at the 4/5 positions, and a depleed bench. The Nets might be an annual Carter trip to the IL away from being a 20-win team.
redsoxnation
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#10 Posted on 17.12.04 1453.14
Reposted on: 17.12.11 1453.21
This is a no lose trade for the Nets: If Carter has been dogging it the past few years, then the Nets have Jefferson, Carter and Kidd. If Carter is shot, all they really gave up were the two 1st round picks, and there probably is some sort of protection on the 1's. As an added bonus, they get rid of Alonzo Mourning's uninsurable contract that had almost 3 years left on it. Nets can't lose in this trade, Raptors can't win.
JoshMann
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#11 Posted on 17.12.04 1515.49
Reposted on: 17.12.11 1516.22
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    If Carter is shot, all they really gave up were the two 1st round picks, and there probably is some sort of protection on the 1's.


Even if not, the Kenyon Martin deal made them look at their own draft picks as playing with the house's money, since Denver's pick seems on-course to be somewhere between 15-20. The one thing I'd be most concerned about is "who's gonna get them a rebound" if I'm a Nets fan, but other wise, if Carter can pull it back together once he leaves Toronto, even with giving up the 2 picks this is a bandit trade for the Nets, especially since there's no true savior in the lottery this coming year.
LionJeetSingh
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#12 Posted on 17.12.04 1626.34
Reposted on: 17.12.11 1626.39
Raptors win by far.

Zo is a free agent this year, and he may be traded again shortly.

Vince is eating the cap. We need room to sign free agents, now all we need to do is unload Bosh. Hopefully we can make a strong pitch for Ray Allen.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#13 Posted on 17.12.04 1806.22
Reposted on: 17.12.11 1818.32
Ray Allen?? The Sonics are kickin ass & taking names right about now. Allen aint goin nowhere.
BigVitoMark
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#14 Posted on 17.12.04 2114.26
Reposted on: 17.12.11 2120.06
    Originally posted by LionJeetSingh
    We need room to sign free agents, now all we need to do is unload Bosh.


Hilarious. That's the same Chris Bosh that the media was heralding for shutting down Kevin Garnett earlier this week? The guy is earning second-year money and is easily the best value, if not the best player, on that team. Why the hurry to trade him?

Let's be honest, the only way the Raptors are going to land good players is by drafting them and winning them over while they are there. They haven't brought in a significant free agent in their history, and when you couple the facts that a.) they are in Canada, b.) they are perennial losers, and c.) anyone there who has been a star (Stoudamire, McGrady, Carter) has taken the first chance to get out of town, they don't offer much. I will be very surprised if they ever land a marquee free agent that competitive teams covet. Draft well and hope for the best, that's the Raptors only prayer. If you're going to try and build that team with free agents, you'll be waiting a long time for success.
Packman V2
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#15 Posted on 17.12.04 2125.11
Reposted on: 17.12.11 2125.24
This will definitely help the Nets....Vinsanity, Kidd, and Richard Jefferson's bitch ass. And I think it's about time to say goodbye to basketball in Canada, since Vince leaving will just about be the final nail in the coffin.
LionJeetSingh
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#16 Posted on 18.12.04 1320.19
Reposted on: 18.12.11 1321.22
My mistake. My meant Rose, not Bosh.

It looks like Rose and Marshall (and possibly Zo) are headed to Miami for Eddie Jones and Malik Allen. I like this deal as well as it puts us under the cap.

Vito:

"anyone there who has been a star (Stoudamire, McGrady, Carter) has taken the first chance to get out of town"

Carter's first chance was in 2001. He ended up signing a longterm deal and didn't demand a trade until last summer.

The old perception that players don't want to play for a Canadian team is fading fast. If you've frequented the Toronto urban scene, you'd see that it was not uncommon to run into players even during the off-season, especially Caribana weekend. Many players are quickly learning that we don't all live in igloo's and that Toronto is a more desireable destination than say, Utah. Also, Matt Bonner enjoys the city so much that he WALKS to the ACC for games.

And when it comes down to it, players will sign with whoever is offering more dough, in this case, it will be the Raps since they'll be one of the few teams below the cap. Rafer Alston is a good example of this as he had a chance to stay in Miami. MoPete decided to say with Toronto despite an offer from New Orleans.

As long as we get rid of Rose, big things will be coming up next year. 3 first round picks and money to sign free agents. Bosh is the man to build around.

(edited by LionJeetSingh on 18.12.04 1122)
BigVitoMark
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#17 Posted on 18.12.04 1424.31
Reposted on: 18.12.11 1424.56
LJS:

I don't entirely disagree with you, in fact, you are proving my point.

Sure, Carter signed an extension. He was treated like a God, they gave him all the money they could, and the team was winning. Anyone would take that deal. The second any of that changed he wanted out.

Rafer Alston started 28/82 games last year, now he starts every day in Toronto. Peterson turned down a chance to go to the worst team in the NBA to stay in Toronto. These are hardly ringing endorsements of the Raptors or TO as a basketball city. Just because guys pop up now and then in the offseason it does not make a desirable place to play. Toronto is the fifth largest city in North America, a few guys are bound to show now and then.

Regardless of whether there is a stigma about playing in Canada, the Toronto Raptors offer little enticement to star players who have choices. You can have all the Rafer Alston's you want, they won't get you into the playoffs or lead you to any other criteria that makes a strong franchise.
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#18 Posted on 19.12.04 1215.24
Reposted on: 19.12.11 1216.37
NewsTribune.com

"Two days before Toronto Raptors general manager Rob Babcock traded Vince Carter to the New Jersey Nets, he was informed that Carter may have tried to sabotage his team in a game a month ago.

With 29 seconds remaining in that game and the Sonics leading 97-90, the Raptors called a timeout. After returning to the court, Carter lined up along the edge of the key. He was facing the Sonics’ bench with his hands on his knees. According to a member of the Sonics, before the play began, Carter said directly to the Seattle bench, “It’s a flare. It’s a flare.” Two other members of the Sonics confirmed that Carter told the Sonics bench that the Raptors were running the flare play.

The Raptors, inbounding the ball above the Sonics bench, then ran a flare play for Carter."

If this is true, then good riddance to bad rubbish.

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#19 Posted on 19.12.04 1326.31
Reposted on: 19.12.11 1326.58
If that is true there should be an investigation and suspension. How is that any different than throwing a game?
Kawshen
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#20 Posted on 19.12.04 1657.53
Reposted on: 19.12.11 1658.01
In a related story, Alonzo Mourning may be headed back to Miami - since it doesn't really seem likely he's playing in TO. They'll either buy him out (more likely) or trade him.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/raptors/2004-12-18-mourning_x.htm

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