The W
Views: 101521973
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
21.12.07 2012
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Cartoon Wrestlers to bring back fans?
This thread has 2 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
(2353 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (15 total)
TopTenPro
Italian
No longer registered
Level: 33

Posts: 175/234
EXP: 224311
For next: 4871

Since: 21.3.04
From: Johnson City, TN

Since last post: 3631 days
Last activity: 3427 days
#1 Posted on 24.11.04 0808.03
Reposted on: 24.11.11 0808.48
I posted this at Wrestleline.com.

http://www.wrestleline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=475

The then WWF's owner Vinny Mac once called himself "The Walt Disney of Professional Wrestling." He made serious pro wrestlers give up their past and created new names and personas, it brought wrestling into a new era. The WWE abandoned the cartoons for more attitude, but that era is officially over, is it time to return to cartoons?

Ricky Steamboat, Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, and even the Road Warriors were asked to be wrestling characters, and they did very well with the gimmicks handed to them by WWF(E), rating went up and wrestling was on a national stage. Watching the sport and growing up on that time period is interesting, especially in today's world of wrestling. The fans went to matches to see over the top characters doing out of this world things, you do not get that today.

As big of a fan of cruiserweights as I am, I think they hurt the sport. Looking at the light weight wrestlers makes you think anyone can do it today. Tough Enough is another example of wrestling getting away from the roots that made Vince a success the first time. Reality TV and pro wrestling need to separate.

Bring in more Simon Deans, Carlito Cools, and even Undertakers. If I wanted real I would watch football.

They had no thoughts on it over there, wondering what you guys think.
Promote this thread!
Matt Tracker
Scrapple
Level: 125

Posts: 653/4915
EXP: 22451050
For next: 3177

Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 4 min.
#2 Posted on 24.11.04 0822.41
Reposted on: 24.11.11 0823.15
I have no problem with cartoony gimmicks so long as the performers can do something in the ring. You could have made Steamboat act like Mork from Ork, and I'd watch him work a match. I grew very tired of the gimmicks covering for guys who couldn't do anything in the ring except their finisher.

I have hopes that the Simon Dean push will result in an impressive repertoire of moves. I liked him as Nova but that was when he was in ECW and its audience's demand for innovation.

Sure, bring me vikings, clowns, matadors, hunters, magicians and zombies. Just give me something to watch after their entrance.
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple
Level: 114

Posts: 780/3844
EXP: 16260589
For next: 49028

Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 511 days
Last activity: 471 days
#3 Posted on 24.11.04 1457.06
Reposted on: 24.11.11 1457.07
You think Cruiserweights hurt the sport? So it's not stupid go-nowhere storylines, it's not pointless characters, it's the fast little guys who like doing weird things off the ropes?

I don't know if I want cartoon characters per se. That may have worked when I was a kid, but if that happened now, I think I'd stop watching. The problem with the product today (I know I'm stealing this from some internet write somewhere, but I can't remember which) is that so many wrestlers don't have a character, they have a gimmick. Gimmicks will last you a little while, but it has to morph into a character before it really matters.

So if you mean gimmicks, like say, Papa Shango or the Gobbledygooker, then no thanks. But I'm definitely in favor of giving the audience some reason to care about the performers. Give them insight into the characters needs and desires, give him a conflict, and let it rip.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille
Level: 88

Posts: 1154/2101
EXP: 6516716
For next: 133974

Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
#4 Posted on 24.11.04 1547.00
Reposted on: 24.11.11 1547.00
I think a balance can definitely be struck. We can't go back to the cartoons entirely, I think people misunderstand the impact that had. Guys like Hogan, Savage, Dibiase, the Hart Foudation, the British Bulldogs, King Kong Bundy, Paul Orndorff, Andre...They weren't all that cartoonish. In comparison to wrestling's past, sure, but the real cartoons came later, people like Doink and Mantaur and the Godwinns, and it killed the business.

And no comedy in the main event, please.
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst
Level: 66

Posts: 138/1148
EXP: 2406835
For next: 55029

Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 66 days
Last activity: 5 days
#5 Posted on 24.11.04 1609.59
Reposted on: 24.11.11 1610.02
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I have no problem with cartoony gimmicks so long as the performers can do something in the ring.


Matt, for a second I agreed with you, but then I remembered the crappy "Dragon" gimmick they gave to Ricky Steamboat when he returned to WWE. There's something to be said for giving the fans something to care about, and no matter how good a wrestler is, a really bad cartoonish gimmick can do a lot of damage.
Stilton
Frankfurter
Level: 57

Posts: 447/793
EXP: 1407068
For next: 78869

Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 3243 days
Last activity: 3243 days
#6 Posted on 24.11.04 2158.43
Reposted on: 24.11.11 2159.01
I'm in agreement with HMD and Boffo, and I think the line must be drawn between "Gimmick" and "Character".

Wrestling dazzles us with its "spectacle"--part of that spectacle is terrific matches, and part of that spectacle is showmanship--but what keeps most fans coming back is a good story. Characters are what make a story great.

Gimmicks can't really change or evolve much. They tend to stagnate pretty quickly. A good performer can take a gimmick and turn it into a character capable of change and adaptation--I can't think of a better example than the Undertaker--but these cases are rare. Usually, when a wrestler has a 1-dimensional gimmick instead of a character with potential depth, that wrestler can count on a pretty brief time in the spotlight.

Come to think of it, Triple H is another great example of how a wrestler can, with time and talent, transform a gimmick into a compelling character. When he came to the WWE he was a flimsy carbon copy of the Million Dollar Man gimmick. A rich snob who looked down on the great unwashed masses. He took that foundation and built an entire persona.

Granted, not all wrestlers are that gifted with characterization, and that's where it becomes the responsibility of the writers and creative staff to provide direction to able wrestlers, rather than letting them exhaust the lame gimmick they've been saddled with and then letting them go because "Creative" couldn't think of something for them to do after their gimmick ran its course.
BigSteve
Pepperoni
Level: 65

Posts: 284/1091
EXP: 2222296
For next: 113344

Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2901 days
Last activity: 2629 days
#7 Posted on 24.11.04 2245.36
Reposted on: 24.11.11 2250.20
I think the WWE needs to go more towards giving people somewhat outlandish gimmicks. I don't mean I want to see trashmen and plumbers, but I'm getting tired of seeing generic, musclebound lugs come out it black tights, without a shred of a unique personality. Even if they didn't want to do gimmicks, they could certainly give people a backstory, like they did with Shelton Benjamin on Raw. That little two and a half minute vignette really gave me more of an insight into his personality than I had in the last six months that he's been a player on Raw. Little things like that can go far into helping the WWE create compelling characters that will eventually draw on the top of the card.
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator
Level: 214

Posts: 5417/16401
EXP: 144915289
For next: 810131

Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#8 Posted on 24.11.04 2259.15
Reposted on: 24.11.11 2259.15
    Originally posted by BigSteve
    I'm getting tired of seeing generic, musclebound lugs come out it black tights, without a shred of a unique personality.
And by this, you're referring to.....?
TopTenPro
Italian
No longer registered
Level: 33

Posts: 177/234
EXP: 224311
For next: 4871

Since: 21.3.04
From: Johnson City, TN

Since last post: 3631 days
Last activity: 3427 days
#9 Posted on 25.11.04 0200.23
Reposted on: 25.11.11 0205.50
Where should they draw the line?

I like Carlito Cool and am excited about Simon's prospect, but I too am tired of the black trunk tough guy.

I do not want another Berzerker, but Doink was entertaining. Models, Matadors, Dragon's, Animals, Kings, and Rocks are entertaining to me. Some gimmicks rebuilt stale careers, Santana and Martel are good examples. Some gimmicks hurt careers, Mero and Traylor are good examples.
When and how does a writer decide?

Stupid things like polka dots and a "fake Real World's champion" introduced legends to a young fan base. Putting an HBK or calling people by proper adult names like Richard or Terrence reintroduced boring concepts.

Should Papa Shongo come back? Does the Honkey Tonk Man have a place? Does the wrestling world need another Ultimate Warrior? Larger than life superheros seem to make alot of money at the box office.
Oliver
Scrapple
Level: 127

Posts: 1060/4971
EXP: 23686456
For next: 40175

Since: 20.6.02
From: Kolob

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#10 Posted on 25.11.04 1435.00
Reposted on: 25.11.11 1435.30
I think a certain equilibrium should be met: let's have some cartoonish wrestlers in the lower and midcard, often for kids who like to watch, and for folks to laugh at; and save the serious non-comedic wrestling for main events.

I always got a kick out of Doink, the Godwins, Demolition, pre-Kronik Crush, and Waylond Mercy, to name a few.
TopTenPro
Italian
No longer registered
Level: 33

Posts: 182/234
EXP: 224311
For next: 4871

Since: 21.3.04
From: Johnson City, TN

Since last post: 3631 days
Last activity: 3427 days
#11 Posted on 25.11.04 1536.42
Reposted on: 25.11.11 1536.44
Where do you put Eugene into all this?

He started as a comic relief; He was getting main event spots within weeks, and is now a tag team champion. Don't you feel the same can happen to other 'toons they create, and how would they stop them from going above the mid card?
BigSteve
Pepperoni
Level: 65

Posts: 288/1091
EXP: 2222296
For next: 113344

Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2901 days
Last activity: 2629 days
#12 Posted on 25.11.04 1948.18
Reposted on: 25.11.11 1948.31
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by BigSteve
      I'm getting tired of seeing generic, musclebound lugs come out it black tights, without a shred of a unique personality.
    And by this, you're referring to.....?


Mark Jindrak, Luther Reigns, Gene Snitsky, et al.
Aldo D 2112
Goetta
Level: 38

Posts: 236/302
EXP: 357023
For next: 13427

Since: 21.4.02
From: West Palm Beach, FL

Since last post: 2626 days
Last activity: 2455 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#13 Posted on 26.11.04 2321.46
Reposted on: 26.11.11 2322.02
    Originally posted by BigSteve
      Originally posted by CRZ
        Originally posted by BigSteve
        I'm getting tired of seeing generic, musclebound lugs come out it black tights, without a shred of a unique personality.
      And by this, you're referring to.....?


    Mark Jindrak, Luther Reigns, Gene Snitsky, et al.


I'll agree with you on the first two, but Snitsky is one of the few guys in WWE that has been given a defining characteristic - that being someone who gets sheer joy out of causing pain and misery to those unfortunate enough to cross his path.
Net Hack Slasher
Banger
Level: 100

Posts: 2742/2805
EXP: 10219474
For next: 134958

Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3649 days
Last activity: 2069 days
#14 Posted on 1.12.04 1708.04
Reposted on: 1.12.11 1708.50
I agree with the people here who say you don't really need cartoon characters, someone doesnt need to be the "wrestling *____*" (*insert job/lifestyle, where does a pirate fall under? lol)... But you do need character, a personality at least to hook you in to the wrestling.

I think Carlito Cool was well done, his character is just enough of a twist to make him stand out a bit but he doesnt seem like an absurd fictional character like Mordeci who was way too "out there" also it was totally the wrong guy, playing the wrong character as for a real intimidating character the guy who played it just didn't look the part.

Kurt Angle's new boys are just bland, it's comical having Cole giving this backstory on Reigns about being in & out of prison and having such a rough childhood just totally out of the blue while he's in the ring. I see these guys being Kurt's boys & being in the main events of SD and for me they have all the characteristics of Step 1 of a create a wrestler on a video game... At least Kurt's old team World's Greatest Tagteam had that amateur wrestling background and of course those awesome Team USA outfits to at least give them some hook.
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator
Level: 214

Posts: 5438/16401
EXP: 144915289
For next: 810131

Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#15 Posted on 1.12.04 1717.51
Reposted on: 1.12.11 1717.56
I gotta start closing threads at 5 days from last reply instead of 7. I just GOTTA.
ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE
Thread ahead: NWA/TNA results??
Next thread: RAW Work RATE Report 11/29/04
Previous thread: ROH DVDs
(2353 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Cartoon Wrestlers to bring back fans?Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.295 seconds.