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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Why all the resignations? Register and log in to post!
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FurryHippie
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#1 Posted on 16.11.04 1049.18
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1049.54
Basically, what the thread title says. I know everybody wants to throw in a funny answer, but I mean it seriously. Somebody said in the Ashcroft thread that it's common for cabinet members to resign after the prez is elected - but after re-election just seems peculiar to me. Why is everybody resigning en masse?
Promote this thread!
Grimis
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#2 Posted on 16.11.04 1101.10
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1101.36
Because its very easy to get burned out, and stepping down now provides more time for orderly transisition...

No point in waiting.
Barbwire Mike
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#3 Posted on 16.11.04 1110.59
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1111.32
There are a multitude of reasons. Obviously some of the "resignations" are a nice way of saying "about to be fired" (and especially in the case of the CIA, I can only say "thank God"), but others have far less policy reasons.

For example Ridge and Ashcroft, while I'll shed no tears over the departure of either, both were basically thrust into duties they never could've imagined at the start of this term thanks to 9/11. Can't blame either of them for wanting to go back to private life.

And not to turn this into another media thread, but this isn't that uncommon. I just get the feeling that a lot of dejected "elites" are dealing with their grief by painting this as some sort of Orwellian coup.
Roy.
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#4 Posted on 16.11.04 1130.16
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1131.17
    Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
    For example Ridge and Ashcroft, while I'll shed no tears over the departure of either, both were basically thrust into duties they never could've imagined at the start of this term thanks to 9/11.


I'm pretty sure Ridge knew what he was getting into, considering his post didn't exist until AFTER 9/11. I never understood what his job really was, besides setting the terror alert level, but I'm sure it was one of those easily burned out jobs. Word going around a few months ago was that he wasn't happy with his salary, for he had to put his kids through college, and 100 grand a year wasn't cutting it. As long as he stays out of public office (I REALLY didn't like him as PA gov), I'll be happy.
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#5 Posted on 16.11.04 1132.25
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1135.15
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Because its very easy to get burned out, and stepping down now provides more time for orderly transisition...

    No point in waiting.


I wonder why all these people got burned out, but Bush didn't?
Grimis
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#6 Posted on 16.11.04 1207.07
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1207.37
    Originally posted by pieman
    I wonder why all these people got burned out, but Bush didn't?
No saying he's not. Look at how much older he looks now than he did four years ago. Happens to all Presidents...
OMEGA
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#7 Posted on 16.11.04 1220.01
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1220.19
They were talking about this on CNN yesteray. Being a cabinet member is a 24-hour a day job and is just about as stressful of a job as you can get. I'm sure a lot of the guys are just burnt out and didn't want to be running on empty for four more years. It's better to let the people who are burnt out go and hire some people who are fresh and can provide more energy to the job.

And, as BarbwireMike said, I'm sure some of these are just nice ways of saying "You're fired" as well.
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#8 Posted on 16.11.04 1244.05
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1245.56
    Originally posted by OMEGA
    Being a cabinet member is a 24-hour a day job and is just about as stressful of a job as you can get. I'm sure a lot of the guys are just burnt out and didn't want to be running on empty for four more years.


That's my point. If these guys cannot be expected to perform a lesser job than the President for four years, how can we expect the President to be able to operate on empty (your words) for four more years?
RYDER FAKIN
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#9 Posted on 16.11.04 1249.35
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1249.37
pieman: That's my point. If these guys cannot be expected to perform a lesser job than the President for four years, how can we expect the President to be able to operate on empty (your words) for four more years?

I think the obvious answer is co...COME ON! HE'S BORN AGAIN!

Damn Kitty Kelly book...

FLEA
Grimis
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#10 Posted on 16.11.04 1301.32
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1302.25
    Originally posted by pieman
    That's my point. If these guys cannot be expected to perform a lesser job than the President for four years, how can we expect the President to be able to operate on empty (your words) for four more years?
It is an interesting question. But being President means that you are the boss, and can delegate most of the work, depending on the management style of the President. The Cabinet Secretary serves at the Pleasure of the President and implements his vision for government. So not only do you have to run what would amount to a multi-billion dollar company, you have to answer to the most powerful man in the world. The President only has to answer to the voters once after being elected, and then to his God.
The Goon
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#11 Posted on 16.11.04 1308.27
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1308.47
I can't recall...was there similar turnover with Clinton (96) and Reagan (84)? I know the Secretary of State under Reagan changed from Haig to Shultz, but were there others?
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#12 Posted on 16.11.04 1344.10
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1346.49
Pretty sure it is the same for every second term - cabinet turnover.

http://www.s-t.com/daily/11-96/11-08-96/a07wn031.htm

I haven't found anything yet that lists ALL of the positions Clinton had to fill, but that article should show that this sort of thing happens, and there is nothing special or meaningful about it happening this time around.
Grimis
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#13 Posted on 16.11.04 1349.40
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1351.05
    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    I haven't found anything yet that lists ALL of the positions Clinton had to fill
Here's the Clinton Cabinet. Seven resignations at the end of the first term or near the beginning of the second.
bash91
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#14 Posted on 16.11.04 1459.31
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1501.39
Lifted from a, gasp, print edition of Congressional Quarterly, here are the number of resignations and early replacements for the last 6 2-term Presidents.

Harry Truman: 4
Dwight Eisenhower: 3
Lyndon Johnson: 4
Richard Nixon: 9
Ronald Reagan: 7
William Clinton: 7

Tim
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#15 Posted on 16.11.04 1826.18
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1828.04
    Originally posted by Roy.
      Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
      For example Ridge and Ashcroft, while I'll shed no tears over the departure of either, both were basically thrust into duties they never could've imagined at the start of this term thanks to 9/11.


    I'm pretty sure Ridge knew what he was getting into, considering his post didn't exist until AFTER 9/11. I never understood what his job really was, besides setting the terror alert level, but I'm sure it was one of those easily burned out jobs. Word going around a few months ago was that he wasn't happy with his salary, for he had to put his kids through college, and 100 grand a year wasn't cutting it. As long as he stays out of public office (I REALLY didn't like him as PA gov), I'll be happy.


Yeah, he's got a job that didn't exist before 9/11. Thus, before 9/11, he could never have imagined what he'd be doing in 2004.
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#16 Posted on 16.11.04 2237.35
Reposted on: 16.11.11 2241.36
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by pieman
      I wonder why all these people got burned out, but Bush didn't?
    No saying he's not. Look at how much older he looks now than he did four years ago. Happens to all Presidents...


You're exactly right --

I think the cause is called "getting older." See under "time lapse."
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#17 Posted on 17.11.04 0936.53
Reposted on: 17.11.11 0936.57
The president's job can be more likened to a marathon: they pace themselves to not get burned out. The president brings in people to work his agenda, and those are the people who work the 80+ hour weeks to get their particular area going; more like a sprint than a marathon.

Besides, in Bush's particular case, I was under the impression that he NEVER worked after hours and always took his vacations. He's the last guy who should be burned out.
Crimedog
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#18 Posted on 17.11.04 2327.00
Reposted on: 17.11.11 2327.07
It's pretty much standard operating procedure for cabinet secretaries to offer their resignation if the president is re-elected. Part of it is the inevitable burnout; part of it is so the president can make changes if cabinet members aren't on the same page as him or so they can go on to whatever they want to do next.

As for burnout, it's been touched on here, but the job of cabinet members is to make sure the president doesn't get burned out by keeping as much off of him as possible. Therefore, they're pretty much going around the clock and they only present to the president the major problems.
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#19 Posted on 18.11.04 1230.42
Reposted on: 18.11.11 1231.03
    Originally posted by Crimedog
    As for burnout, it's been touched on here, but the job of cabinet members is to make sure the president doesn't get burned out by keeping as much off of him as possible. Therefore, they're pretty much going around the clock and they only present to the president the major problems.


So it seems what most of you are saying is that the President really doesn't do a whole hell of a lot?
Crimedog
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#20 Posted on 20.11.04 0046.21
Reposted on: 20.11.11 0048.05
    Originally posted by pieman
      Originally posted by Crimedog
      As for burnout, it's been touched on here, but the job of cabinet members is to make sure the president doesn't get burned out by keeping as much off of him as possible. Therefore, they're pretty much going around the clock and they only present to the president the major problems.


    So it seems what most of you are saying is that the President really doesn't do a whole hell of a lot?


Basically, yes. The president has two jobs: Be the symbol of the country and make the really, really big decisions. Simply dealing with the U.S. government alone _ independent of any foreign policy concerns or anything dealing with non-government issues in the U.S. _ would be too much for one person. The president needs to be insulated from that a little, because if he had to micromanage, it would be an impossible situation.
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