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23.10.07 1706
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Nobody watches RAW 11/15/04 aka "you can't spell Main event without MAVEN"
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Mayhem
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#21 Posted on 16.11.04 0742.48
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0743.15

I was really hoping that Rhyno & Tajiri would win the tag titles ... but I'm glad to see Regal getting some gold.

Okay, who marked out when Maven said that Edge & Christian would be teaming? *raises hand*

Are they turning Christian face? ... And as for the hinted possible Batista face-turn, I think he will be waaaaaaay over as a face.

I really enjoyed the main event. Even though Maven really didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the strap, they made you believe he would ... sorta reminded me of the Jeff Hardy/Undertaker ladder match for the title.
ScreamingHeadGuy
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#22 Posted on 16.11.04 0749.37
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0750.30
I watched...up to a point. I think I just gave up before the JR/Coach match (I could check my notes, but I'm at work...and I don't care). There was just that feeling that WW wasn't really giving a crap about this week's episode, so I didn't, either.

But I can say that Regal's one-liners were pretty funny.
The Goon
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#23 Posted on 16.11.04 0802.17
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0802.22
Maven may well be the best booker RAW's ever had.

Reuniting Edge & Christian, the three-way tag title match, booking himself in a championship match (who wouldn't do the same thing?), the lingerie pillow fight (Christy's bum, mmmmmm), as well as the assorted backstage drama made this the best RAW I can remember seeing in quite some time.

Highlight: Eugene & Regal's exuberant win and subsequent chocolate milk/breast celebration backstage.

Lowlights: How many times can HHH say "Think about it." Also, Simon Dean just seems like a waste of time.

I was really hoping for an upset in the main event, but as it went on, I was thinking that Maven would notice all the interference on his behalf, and say, "You're right, HHH." Then he'd join Evolution.

The Mohammad Hassan skits make me uncomfortable.

Anyway, I'm really happy for Maven-a guy who won a reality TV show and has made something for himself in the business. He's a fairly sharp dresser, too.
thefraserman
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#24 Posted on 16.11.04 0839.20
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0840.17
I caught the replay of RAW here on TSN, and during Edge's five second pose, the shot of the middle finger was there for a breif second before they cut out to the 'upcoming matchup' screen. Did the live version show the finger for longer?

Stupid censors.
Mayhem
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#25 Posted on 16.11.04 0858.00
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0859.01
    Originally posted by Wpob
    The only thing they could do to save this 4 week arc is to have Orton book Batista v. HHH for the title on week 4 and have Batista win. That would make me happy.




Wow, good call ... or better yet, a Triple Threat match & throw Flair in there.
Torchslasher
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#26 Posted on 16.11.04 0915.45
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0916.53
I find myself agreeing with The Goon. The arcing storylines were all well-written, leaving me feeling that this Raw was pretty special. Of course there were some bad portions, but even then it was reasonably short (Pillow Fight;Dean).

The writing improved drastically this week. Even though HHH went too long in his speech to Maven, the things he was saying were right on the mark. It's of course possible that the top faces, after months of being unable to conclusively beating HHH (except Benoit), would look for an easy out.

The main event itself had some decent wrestling, and even more good drama. I've watched wrestling for almost 20 years, and even I thought Maven might pull off the "upset" after the Orton belt shot.

Dean vs. FAT Eric vs. Rosey for New Year's Revolution!
too-old-now
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#27 Posted on 16.11.04 0948.01
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0949.04
Congratulations to the new Tag Team Champs, Eugene and William "Steven" Regal. Eugene is still over with the fans, and Regal is among the best overall entertainers on the roster - by far his line about being prepared, carrying a handkerchief to wipe off the chocolate milk, was the best light-hearted segment in a long time, capped off with his "Eugene, you'll go blind!" Even normally straight faced Regal couldn't hide the fun he was having!

Yes, the HHH-Maven backstage segment went too long, but only slightly.

I bet Maven joins Evolution next week, after costing Benoit or Jericho the title. I'm digging the slow, slow build on Batista's face turn.

And Freeway420, in your list of face hierarchy, where does Kane fit it? He was clearly the face against Snitsky, but since he lost, is he gone for a while?

GRL
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#28 Posted on 16.11.04 1004.27
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1007.41
I was completely torn on this Raw... on the one hand, I enjoyed some of the actual wrestling that took place. Especially the chain sequence put on by Tajiri and Eugene, though the crowd seemed to not care one bit.

Count me as one vote for a person who ENJOYED the Hassan promo, if for the only fact that they've created a character who has motivation for his anger. What's Snitsky's motivation? That he hates babies? Sure, that makes him a dick, because who hates babies?, but Hassan feels his anger on a deeper level, and I look forward to seeing how this progresses.

I slept through the Simon Dean segment. Sounded like the live crowd did, too.
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#29 Posted on 16.11.04 1023.09
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1023.47
First of all I like how they are handling the faces each getting control each week. I don't know if they explained it that way before, if they did I missed it. I figured they'd all come out at once and make matches. But doing it this way puts focus on one guy for a week, which I think is good for each of them. Sure I'm not a Maven fan but I'll definitely enjoy Benoit and Jericho's weeks, maybe Orton's

I also loved the threeway tag match and Regal/Eugene's celebrating. I just hope they keep the titles, they seemed to have bounced it around too quicly the last couple of times.

I don't think Christian is turning face, i think they just figured they're trying to get Edge over as a jerk and that meant even turning on the one guy he's been most associated with in his WWE career. Personally I bought it, tonight was the first time I bought Edge and Christian as badass heels rather than the silly heels they used to be.

I don't know what's going on with Evolution, Maven could still turn heel, Batista could turn face, Snitskey could join. So I guess that's a good thing that it isn't too predictable. Do Maven and Snitskey take Orton and Batista's place? Man would they suck then, that would actually be a step down from Orton and Batista.
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#30 Posted on 16.11.04 1025.04
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1028.05
    Originally posted by thefraserman
    I caught the replay of RAW here on TSN, and during Edge's five second pose, the shot of the middle finger was there for a breif second before they cut out to the 'upcoming matchup' screen. Did the live version show the finger for longer?



As I said earlier in this very thread, no. No it didn't.

And it looked like Christian got his jacket this week out of the Fabulous Rougeau Brothers closet.

(edited by geemoney on 16.11.04 1125)
OMEGA
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#31 Posted on 16.11.04 1028.39
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1028.41
I actually loved the Maven storyline tonight. I mean, it was obvious what the end result would be. But it was still done very well. I also liked the main-event. I knew the whole time that there was no way that Maven would win, but damned if they didn't do a good job trying to convince me otherwise. Overbooked? Sure, but I thought it all fit well, and the crowd, who gave Maven NO reaction during introductions, was sucked into the thing by the end.

Maven sort of won me over tonight. He showed that he can handle being the center of a storyline. Now, if WWE builds him up to the point that people actually care about him, then maybe they'll finally have something with the guy.

Simon Dean continues to bore me. WWE has a great oppurtunity to have a fun gimmick here, but these long and boring promos are killing it.

On the other hand, and I know that SEVERAL people disagree with me here, I love the Hasaan character. I know why people would dislike, but I just think it's a good character. It's 3-dimensional, and not the standard cookie-cutter gimmicks (like evil fitness-guru). WWE has to be careful with it though, as it is treading a very fine-line.

Finally, I love, love, LOVE the new direction WWE has going where the heels don't get along. It's just so much more realistic. In real life, if a total jerk meets another total jerk, chances are he's not going to say "Wow, he's an asshole like me! We should be friends!" He'll probably treat him as bad as he treats everyone else. Plus, it makes for some great promos, like the one with Edge & Christian this week. It's just something new and fresh, and I like it.

(edited by OMEGA on 16.11.04 1131)
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#32 Posted on 16.11.04 1033.09
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1033.42
    Originally posted by thefraserman
    I caught the replay of RAW here on TSN, and during Edge's five second pose, the shot of the middle finger was there for a breif second before they cut out to the 'upcoming matchup' screen. Did the live version show the finger for longer?

    Stupid censors.

No, they did the same thing on the live version, up in Canada and down here in the lower 48. I don't know if it was accidental, but I could see them doing it on purpose. It made it some more like something real, instead of a scripted show. It's like interviewing athletes live after their games. You never know what could happen, and sometimes you'll have to make a sudden cut to something else. It made it seem more spontaneous to me.
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#33 Posted on 16.11.04 1035.08
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1035.11
Is it just me or does Rosey look like he has lost some weight?
sentonBOMB
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#34 Posted on 16.11.04 1110.36
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1111.31
    Originally posted by krakken2000
    Is it just me or does Rosey look like he has lost some weight?


He's clearly on the Simon System.
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#35 Posted on 16.11.04 1201.01
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1201.24
    Originally posted by krakken2000
    Is it just me or does Rosey look like he has lost some weight?


Yeah, about 190 pounds of Hurricane.
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#36 Posted on 16.11.04 1441.09
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1443.28
Wasn't that the same shill in the Simon Dean segment from two weeks ago?
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#37 Posted on 16.11.04 1539.02
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1539.47
I think Maven is a really good worker and I would've liked seeing him get the strap. Quit laughing I'm serious. Have him win it, then drop it next week to Jericho, have Jericho drop it to Benoit, have Benoit drop it to HHH. That way you have have heat between them all, and orton is still the challenger coming into WM21.


(edited by mercer on 16.11.04 1339)
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#38 Posted on 16.11.04 1546.14
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1548.00
    Originally posted by mercer
    I think Maven is a really good worker and I would've liked seeing him get the strap. Quit laughing I'm serious. Have him win it, then drop it next week to Jericho, have Jericho drop it to Benoit, have Benoit drop it to HHH. That way you have have heat between them all, and orton is still the challenger coming into WM21.


    (edited by mercer on 16.11.04 1339)


That is the worst idea I have ever heard...first, you'd give Maven the title, which is borderline David Arquette, secondly, Orton would still be a challenger (which I don't think he deserves yet), and third, and most importantly, you'd defeat the purpose of keeping the title on Benoit for nearly 6 months...it devalues the title beyond all belief...

Horrible, horrible idea...

The only way Maven would ever get a "world" title is if he went to TNA...and that's not even an important title...
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#39 Posted on 16.11.04 1733.34
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1734.56
    Originally posted by ShotGunShep
    Wasn't that the same shill in the Simon Dean segment from two weeks ago?

I think the guy a few weeks ago was a lot uglier.

And sorry, but I don't understand the hate for Maven. Does he belong in the main event? Probably not, but to call giving him the title "borderline David Arquette" is an insult to all the hard work he's put in. (No TE jokes, please).
BigSteve
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#40 Posted on 16.11.04 1857.00
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1858.17
To steal an old gimmick...

The Good:
-The Maven vs HHH match, while not good per se, was very entertaining. In fact, the whole story leading up to it was. For the first time in months, I cared about a story and din't know how it would turn out. And it was great to see HHH get some comeuppance when Benoit and Jericho used heel tactics to help Maven. Very Good.
-Edge/Christian vs Benjamin/Benoit: Four guys who are reallly deserving of the main event. I'm not a huge Edgehead, but the rest are fantastic. Good match, and good to see these guys still doing something meaningful.
-The overall feel to the show; very unpredictable in my view.

The Bad:
-Race/9-11 baiting: How f****** classless can you be. This is not funny, and it's not edgy. It's not entertaining either. All it can do is piss people off. People in NYC that day won't be amused. It's just hideous on sooooo many levels.
-Coach vs Orton: So what. This is what the future of the company is doing.
-Gene Snitky: Just on general principle.
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