messenoir
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|  #1 Posted on 15.11.04 1844.03
Reposted on: 15.11.11 1845.15 | I cannot explain the sick feeling I have right now.
You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ.
No, no, no, no, no. This is such ridiculous hogwash.
Undoubtedly, you will have opportunity to appoint many conservative judges and exercise forceful leadership with the Congress in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm regarding the family, sexuality, sanctity of life, religious freedom, freedom of speech, and limited government.
So wait, Bush is going to abolish the death penalty (sanctity of life), get rid of the Patriot Act (limited government), make free speech zones illegal (freedom of speech), and allow pagans just as much access to government as Christians (religious freedom)? He's not? Oh. Wait, so Bush is going to make turn the other cheek as one of his Presidential mantras, as defined by the Bible? He's not? Oh.
The letter originally was at http://www.bju.edu/letter, but is no longer there. It has been cached at:
http://64.233.161.104/u/BJU?q=cache:qI26FiG0AkMJ:www.bju.edu/letter+letter+to+bush&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Congratulatory letter to President George W. Bush from Dr. Bob Jones III
November 3, 2004
President George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Dear Mr. President:
The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!
In your re-election, God has graciously granted America—though she doesn't deserve it—a reprieve from the agenda of paganism. You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. Because you seek the Lord daily, we who know the Lord will follow that kind of voice eagerly.
Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ. Honor the Lord, and He will honor you.
Had your opponent won, I would have still given thanks, because the Bible says I must (I Thessalonians 5:18). It would have been hard, but because the Lord lifts up whom He will and pulls down whom He will, I would have done it. It is easy to rejoice today, because Christ has allowed you to be His servant in this nation for another presidential term. Undoubtedly, you will have opportunity to appoint many conservative judges and exercise forceful leadership with the Congress in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm regarding the family, sexuality, sanctity of life, religious freedom, freedom of speech, and limited government. You have four years—a brief time only—to leave an imprint for righteousness upon this nation that brings with it the blessings of Almighty God.
Christ said, “If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my father honour” (John 12:26).
The student body, faculty, and staff at Bob Jones University commit ourselves to pray for you—that you would do right and honor the Savior. Pull out all the stops and make a difference. If you have weaklings around you who do not share your biblical values, shed yourself of them. Conservative Americans would love to see one president who doesn't care whether he is liked, but cares infinitely that he does right.
Best wishes.
Sincerely your friend,
Bob Jones III
President
BJIII:lw
PS: A few moments ago I read this letter to the students in Chapel. They applauded loudly their approval.
When I told them that Tom Daschle was no longer the minority leader of the Senate, they cheered again.
On occasion, Christians have not agreed with things you said during your first term. Nonetheless, we could not be more thankful that God has given you four more years to serve Him in the White House, never taking off your Christian faith and laying it aside as a man takes off a jacket, but living, speaking, and making decisions as one who knows the Bible to be eternally true. | Promote this thread! |             | BigSteve
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| #2 Posted on 15.11.04 1855.16
Reposted on: 15.11.11 1859.01 | | Haha, Bush is a hypocrite. Haha, his religious views are insincere. Yeah, we get it, enough already. Please stop trying to portray the religious far right as mainstream conservatives. | redsoxnation
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| #3 Posted on 15.11.04 1855.20
Reposted on: 15.11.11 1859.02 | | Maybe I'm wrong, but the President of Bob Jones University still does have freedom of speech guaranteed under the 1st Amendment, so how his writing a letter is the end of Western Civilization confounds me. Personally, I think the guy is a crackpot, but if you want to take the 1st amendment away from crackpots, make sure the Michael Moore's and NYT editorial boards are included in the crackpot crackdown. | messenoir
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| #4 Posted on 15.11.04 1902.17
Reposted on: 15.11.11 1902.47 | Who said anything about taking away his right to write? But that freedom of speech that allows him to write this letter extends to my write to explain why Bush as the savior of America for Christians is hogwash.
No, the head of BJU doesn't speak for all Republicans. But he does speak for quite a few people, and I will point the inherent hypocricy in his views as much as he presents them. And when he says liberals hate Christ, I am not about to let that go.
You can do the same thing with Michael Moore as much as he speaks.
Wonderful how freedom of speech works, ain't it?
Edit/ and a piece by Maureen Dowd: http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/15/opinion/eddowd.html
(edited by messenoir on 15.11.04 1759) | Pool-Boy
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| #5 Posted on 15.11.04 2302.56
Reposted on: 15.11.11 2303.19 | The difference between Bob Jones and Michael Moore is the fact that most Republicans/Conservatives don't take Jones's ideas as doctrine, so to speak. I find that most on the left think that just about anything that comes out of Michael Moore's mouth is gospel. Conservatives attack him, and Liberals leap to his defense.
No one is defending Bob Jones here - so far, everyone seems to agree that the guy is pretty well out there. You are trying to twist this letter by using it as proof that Bush is a hypocrite and a liar. Doesn't really work that way... If you were just attacking Jones as a nut, I think everyone here would agree with you. But that isn't really the point you are making here, is it? | messenoir
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| #6 Posted on 15.11.04 2332.17
Reposted on: 15.11.11 2332.31 | Yes, it IS the point I'm making here. I'm pointing out that Bob Jones is a hypocrite, and you're reading things in you seem to want to read into it.
And Bob Jones U has 5,000 students, which means to me a certain level of support. And I canvassed against the gay marriage amendment in Missouri, and believe me, a good amount of people I talked to hold the same type of Christian beliefs Bob Jones does.
Does everyone? No, not even close. And I'm not even going to begin comparing numbers to those who take Moorisms as gospel, and neither should you, because you have no idea of actual numbers, and you know this.
But both have far more people then should listening to them, and I'll be darned if I'm not going to try to change that. And saying there are hypocrites who voted for Bush says nothing about Bush.
| orangeman
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| #7 Posted on 15.11.04 2332.42
Reposted on: 15.11.11 2332.56 | Originally posted by messenoir
In your re-election, God has graciously granted America—though she doesn't deserve it—a reprieve from the agenda of paganism.
Then what exactly do we deserve? | messenoir
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| #8 Posted on 15.11.04 2337.57
Reposted on: 15.11.11 2339.33 | | I love your sig, btw. I should start a thread on British comedies over in Movies. Yes, I will. | CRZ
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| #9 Posted on 16.11.04 0011.39
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0012.09 | Originally posted by messenoir
I cannot explain the sick feeling I have right now.
After three (FOUR?!) posts by you in the same thread, I think this is the only thing I truly get that you've said.Originally posted by messenoir
Yes, it IS the point I'm making here. I'm pointing out that Bob Jones is a hypocrite, and you're reading things in you seem to want to read into it.
Yeah, but...Originally posted by messenoir
So wait, Bush is going to abolish the death penalty (sanctity of life), get rid of the Patriot Act (limited government), make free speech zones illegal (freedom of speech), and allow pagans just as much access to government as Christians (religious freedom)? He's not? Oh. Wait, so Bush is going to make turn the other cheek as one of his Presidential mantras, as defined by the Bible? He's not? Oh.
Perhaps the fact that you mention Bob Jones zero times in this paragraph is something that might contribute to any confusion by anybody reading here as to the target of your thread...Originally posted by messenoir
Who said anything about taking away his right to write? But that freedom of speech that allows him to write this letter extends to my write to explain why Bush as the savior of America for Christians is hogwash.
...or perhaps it's this one.
You know, I'm not even sure you've proven any HYPOCRISY per se on the part of Jones in this thread. Are his words radical, even extreme? You could infer that. Untruthful? You could probably make a compelling argument in parts. Hypocrite? Well....
Just my opinion, but I think you've given and ARE giving this letter - which apparently isn't even available for mass consumption anymore except as the Google cache you've linked - far more attention than it deserves. And now, so have I. BYE | rockstar
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| #10 Posted on 16.11.04 0102.00
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0102.32 | One can argue and I'm inclined to believe that private institutions and organizations of any kind should be allowed to follow whatever racial/sexual preference/gender/age motivations in creating their policies. Ban on interracial dating on a campus? Sure. Threaten gay alumni with tresspassing charges for coming back? It's your property. Go for it. But one or both of these policies (the dating policy was dropped after a Bush campaign appearance there in 2000) are either extremist views of Christian doctrine or they're not. And if they are, it would probably ease the minds of moderate social Liberals if the Republican Party would be at least slightly proactive in distancing themselves from such institutions and organizations.
And yes, I'm sure the Democrats (Clinton, even) have done something worse, but that doesn't affect the current situation. | Leviathan
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|  #11 Posted on 16.11.04 0547.31
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0548.57 | Originally posted by messenoir
biblical norm regarding... limited government.
I'm having trouble recalling the part of the Bible that set down rules about the size of federal programs. | Grimis
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| #12 Posted on 16.11.04 0635.05
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0636.11 | Bob Jones is an idiot. Most Republicans recognize this.
Michael Moore is an idiot. Most Democrats seem to think he is the second coming.... | Wolfram J. Paulovich
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| #13 Posted on 16.11.04 0656.04
Reposted on: 16.11.11 0656.22 | | (deleted by Jeb Tennyson Lund on 16.11.04 0817) | rockstar
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| #14 Posted on 16.11.04 1612.59
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1613.02 | Originally posted by Grimis
Bob Jones is an idiot. Most Republicans recognize this.
Fine. Then the Republican Party needs to stop pandering to him and his ilk. If their views are out of the mainstream, which is hard to entirely argue, seeing 11 states with the gay marriage ban this election and 2 in the last election, then SAY they're out of the mainstream.
Originally posted by Grimis
Michael Moore is an idiot. Most Democrats seem to think he is the second coming....
Whack that strawman, Grimis! Reach way out there and whack 'em! Maybe if you hit it hard enough, candy will pop out.
(edited by rockstar on 16.11.04 1713) | eviljonhunt81
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| #15 Posted on 16.11.04 1806.05
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1808.48 | Originally posted by Grimis
Michael Moore is an idiot. Most Democrats seem to think he is the second coming....
Remember 4 years ago, when the DNC thought about giving Moore some sort of recognition for support for the party?
Yeah, I thought so. | It's False
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|  #16 Posted on 16.11.04 1818.15
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1819.12 | Having owned my copy of Al Franken's book for a while, I can't help but remember the chapter on Bob Jones University. Those guys are really stuck in a timewarp and, like Jerry Falwell, shouldn't be taken seriously.
If this teaches anything, it's that fundamentalism of all kinds (Christian, Islamic, or otherwise) is rarely ever a good thing. | BigSteve
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| #17 Posted on 16.11.04 1819.47
Reposted on: 16.11.11 1819.51 | Originally posted by rockstar
Originally posted by Grimis
Bob Jones is an idiot. Most Republicans recognize this.
Fine. Then the Republican Party needs to stop pandering to him and his ilk. If their views are out of the mainstream, which is hard to entirely argue, seeing 11 states with the gay marriage ban this election and 2 in the last election, then SAY they're out of the mainstream.
Originally posted by Grimis
Michael Moore is an idiot. Most Democrats seem to think he is the second coming....
Whack that strawman, Grimis! Reach way out there and whack 'em! Maybe if you hit it hard enough, candy will pop out.
(edited by rockstar on 16.11.04 1713)
I don't think that the Republican Party is pandering either to Bob Jones or to anyone of his ilk. Name me one, just ONE, mainstream/conservative Repulican who is as far to the right as this guy or who openly endorses this letter. There are none. It's not a good practice to throw out some abstract generalization onto the wall, and hope that nobody calls you on it. And it is indeed a fact that MANY mainstream liberals pander to/support Michael Moore. The liberal media has practically canonized his films espousing a far left philosophy. That's a fact.
As for Bob Jones being a hypocrite, I agree with CRZ that that is one of the few things you can't infer about Jones from his letter. | eviljonhunt81
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| #18 Posted on 16.11.04 2022.42
Reposted on: 16.11.11 2022.57 | Originally posted by BigSteve
I don't think that the Republican Party is pandering either to Bob Jones or to anyone of his ilk. Name me one, just ONE, mainstream/conservative Repulican who is as far to the right as this guy or who openly endorses this letter.
While not having commented on this exact letter, to my knowledge, the President did visit the University in 2000.
| AWArulz
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| #19 Posted on 16.11.04 2025.31
Reposted on: 16.11.11 2025.33 | Bob isn't a hypocrypt - just a little more to the right of me - and that's a far piece. I don't think it's the government's role to set more than basic rules about life, but of course, radicals on both sides believe differently.
You guys probably know that one difference between Grimis and I is that I am also what some call a religious conservative. I'd be against, say, allowing gay marriage (in fact, I'd prefer the goverment would get out of all marriages - but if they are, then the reason must be that there is a goverment interest in supporting the unit that raises children) and would be in favor of moving abortion rights (or non-rights) back to the several states.
Bot Jones doesn't speak for me, or really, for many Christians, percentage-wise. My 17 year old girl wears pants and we watch TV at our house, things that are usually banned at Bob Jones University and at the home of the very few Christian homes of people who are at that level.
Other than Jones and Jack Hyles and a few of their proteges, there are few Ministers who shepherd and require the sort of behavior from their flock that these ministers do.
Do they have a right to do this? Sure. Am I allowed to speak of them with much the same disdain as I do when I mention Barbara Stiesand and Michael Moore. Yep.
Does the prez listen to them? His job is to listen to EVERYONE. But Dubya's a freaking Methodist. Which makes him less conservative than ME. I am pretty sure the whole Jones dogma makes him as creeped out as it does me. I bet Kerry had some of those moments on the road this past couple years two when some left wacko dem trotted out his socialist workers party intro speech and Kerry had to follow him onto the stage.
(Blatant Kerry Swipe)
OK Maybe not
(/Blantant Kerry Swipe)
(edited by AWArulz on 16.11.04 2126) | Grimis
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| #20 Posted on 17.11.04 0624.37
Reposted on: 17.11.11 0628.43 | Originally posted by rockstar
Fine. Then the Republican Party needs to stop pandering to him and his ilk. If their views are out of the mainstream, which is hard to entirely argue, seeing 11 states with the gay marriage ban this election and 2 in the last election, then SAY they're out of the mainstream.
There is a difference between Bob Jones and banning gay marriage.
Bob Jones is out of the mainstream of the Republican Party.
Based on the last several elections, banning gay marriage is part of the mainstream of this country.
Originally posted by eviljohnhunt81
Remember 4 years ago, when the DNC thought about giving Moore some sort of recognition for support for the party?
Yeah. Four years ago he endorsed Nader too.
This year, he actively supported the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party and their 527 groups actively promoted his film and his bullshit.
Don't see the GOP pimping anything by Jones... |
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