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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - New Bin Laden video puts slight damper on Bush finding him before the Elections. Register and log in to post!
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Cerebus
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#1 Posted on 30.10.04 1029.06
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1029.58
New Bin Laden tape airs just before elections. (story.news.yahoo.com)
-and/or-
You can read a transcript here. (cnn.com)

This Bin Laden isn't the same we're used to over the past two years. He's not dirty, in fact he looks like he took a shower before getting in front of the camera and he's wearing clean clothes. He's looking rather healthy as well.

As for his message, it's a little creepy as for the first time, he tells us why he ordered the 9/11 attacks. Is this the first time he's actually taken credit for it?

The way he talks about Bush and the wording from the transcript just seems kinda odd to me. There's too much of a political slant to this. It's just... well... I don't know, what do any of you make of this?

{EDIT: Fixed your link fixing - CRZ }


(edited by CRZ on 30.10.04 1104)
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Grimis
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#2 Posted on 30.10.04 1131.45
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1133.19
(deleted by CRZ on 30.10.04 1151)
CRZ
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#3 Posted on 30.10.04 1151.08
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1152.07
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Are you trying to say...
Let's not try to play guessing games; people get into enough trouble making their OWN points without attempting to discern others'. If people want to make a point, hopefully they'll be clear enough.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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#4 Posted on 30.10.04 1205.17
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1205.51
Yikes, that was kinda eerie. Most of his messages are so vague, but in this one he seems to just come right out & say what he wants to say. That, combined with the name dropping, the reference to Bush listening to the children's story (Did Osama watch F-9/11?), and the fact that the whole thing was addressed to us (U.S. citizens) made it extra creepy for me.

I will say that I definitely liked Osama better when he was all dirty & sickly looking.


(P.S. - I always did think that "They attacked us because they hate our freedom" thing sounded pretty silly.)
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#5 Posted on 30.10.04 1234.49
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1235.38
Man, I'm going to get nailed for this, but how legitimate is this thing? I know Al Jeezer got it first and played, but damn it was just like he watched Farnhiet 9/11. I am just hoping its fake if not, I think we might have to gear up for another round of attacks. Its just a supervillian thing to do and the fact that he looks better is just something that concerns me. We have done a lot of saying how Al Queda is on the run and we will get them. Its three years later and he is still mocking us, God Damnit!

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#6 Posted on 30.10.04 1444.39
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1445.39
Something seems off about it to me, too - especially to surface right before the election. The language seems off, and, like it's been said earlier in this thread, Bin Laden seems healthier than he's been in years, as opposed to someone who's been dragging his dialysis machine from cave to cave since 9/11.

That said, I don't see how this benefits Bush or Kerry, so if it is a fake, I don't understand why.
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#7 Posted on 30.10.04 1711.12
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1717.53
Maybe I'm being a fool to try and figure out what he's trying to say, but what does it mean when he states "your security is in your hands" and not in the hands of Bush or Kerry or al Q? What is it that I, specifically as a resident of Staten Island, New York have power over in terms of being hit with a nuke? That part just doesn't make any sense. No matter what we do as a people, as long as Bush or Kerry are "searching out" terrorists in the Middle East, we the residents of this country are the ones who are going to be attacked.
Teppan-Yaki
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#8 Posted on 30.10.04 1830.09
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1830.42
Here's what gets me as usual:

The NY Daily News alleges that Bush campaign officials say Bin Laden's tape is good for W's re-election hopes.

    Originally posted by the NY Daily News
    But [the tape] also refocused the nation on terrorism, which polls show helps Bush. And it reminds voters of their horror on Sept. 11 and Bush's well-received response, as well as obliterating the recent flood of bad news for Bush.

    "We want people to think 'terrorism' for the last four days," said a Bush-Cheney campaign official. "And anything that raises the issue in people's minds is good for us."

    A senior GOP strategist added, "anything that makes people nervous about their personal safety helps Bush."

    He called it "a little gift," saying it helps the President but doesn't guarantee his reelection.


A) Yes, the strategist never said that it would guarantee the election.

B) We don't know W's thoughts about the tape off-the-record.

However, it's so nice to have B/C'04 campaign officials wanting voters to think "terrorism" and in a way, use 3,000 souls who perished on 9/11 in the manner above.

EDIT: At the same time, even OBL is saying that it was him, and not Saddam Hussein that ordered the 9/11 attacks.

(edited by Teppan-Yaki on 30.10.04 1831)
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#9 Posted on 30.10.04 1841.55
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1843.54
Look at his message - "If you stop attacking us, we will leave you alone. Your security is in YOUR hands." It is a campaign ad! He wants to influence the election! (No, I am not saying he wants people to vote for Kerry - draw whatever conclusions about who he wants you to vote for on your own.)

Everyone has been expecting some kind of attack on our soil before the election, like the attacks in Spain. Well, one hasn't happened, and this may mean one isn't going to. Either they couldn't pull one off in time, and he made this tape because it was the only thing they COULD do to try and scare us into voting one way or another, or he decided that an actual attack would only serve to turn us against him even more. Instead of scaring us into voting one way, like Spain, it would harden us. He must see that the psychological has a much greater effect on this country, and he is counting on the threat of terror to have a greater positive impact (for him) than an actual attack itself.

So the tape is different - he is cleaner, more civil, more "diplomatic." More reasonable. It is image. He is making himself seem less like a murderer, and more like a head of state. He is asking for our vote. He is trying to convince us that he really doesn't want war with us, that he is only defending himself against our aggression. A rant about blood in the streets of America wouldn't make his point. I don't think it is a fake - I think he is just trying something new.
Von Maestro
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#10 Posted on 30.10.04 1912.01
Reposted on: 30.10.11 1912.02
    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    So the tape is different - he is cleaner, more civil, more "diplomatic." More reasonable. It is image. He is making himself seem less like a murderer, and more like a head of state.


Hey, that strategy seems to have worked for Yassir Arafat...
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#11 Posted on 31.10.04 0227.31
Reposted on: 31.10.11 0229.01
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
      Originally posted by Pool-Boy
      So the tape is different - he is cleaner, more civil, more "diplomatic." More reasonable. It is image. He is making himself seem less like a murderer, and more like a head of state.


    Hey, that strategy seems to have worked for Yassir Arafat...


Yeah, but only because Israel doesn't have the free rein that the US has. No amount of European fawning will make us accept OBL at the bargaining table.

Interesting analysis from the blog "The Belmont Club." No endorsement implied, but I think it adds to the discussion.

    Originally posted by (O)(U)sama bin Laden
    You American people, my speech to you is the best way to avoid another conflict about the war and its reasons and results. I am telling you security is an important pillar of human life. And free people don't let go of their security contrary to Bush's claims that we hate freedom. He should tell us why we didn't hit Sweden for instance. Its known that those who hate freedom don't have dignified souls.like the 19 who were blessed. But we fought you because we are free people, we don't sleep on our oppression. We want to regain the freedom of our Muslim nation as you spill our security, we spill your security.

    I am so surprised by you. Although we are in the fourth year after the events of Sept 11, Bush is still practicing distortion and misleading on you, and obscuring the main reasons and therefore the reasons are still existing to repeat what happened before. I will tell you the reasons behind theses incidents.


Their take on the almost conciliatory tone of his statement here is:

    Originally posted by The Belmont Club
    It is important to notice what he has stopped saying in this speech. He has stopped talking about the restoration of the Global Caliphate. There is no more mention of the return of Andalusia. There is no more anticipation that Islam will sweep the world. He is no longer boasting that Americans run at the slightest wounds; that they are more cowardly than the Russians. He is not talking about future operations to swathe the world in fire but dwelling on past glories. He is basically saying if you leave us alone we will leave you alone. Though it is couched in his customary orbicular phraseology he is basically asking for time out.


We might not be able to agree on what it means, but I'm given to think this drastic change in tone means something. Of course, if the meaning isn't obvious to all of us, perhaps the message is a failure?

Linkification: http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/10/osama-bin-ladens-surrender-proposal.html

(edited by PalpatineW on 31.10.04 0327)
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#12 Posted on 31.10.04 0324.34
Reposted on: 31.10.11 0328.18
My take on this: Bin Laden's a visionary. He sees the world in a certain way, and his charisma allows him to persuade others to see it in the same way that he does. A lot of charismatic leaders are the same way. Bin Laden believes that the United States is evil, and that once he declared war and struck a blow, that the United States would attempt to destroy Bin Laden and all he holds dear just as an evil villian should do. If his mind, he saw us (and so did a lot of Americans) raining helfire and destruction against the Bin Laden and his allies, and in Bin Laden's world all Muslims are his allies. So we were supposed to go on a rampage throughout the world that no Muslim could've turned a blind eye towards, and thus precitpitating an all out war between the US and it allies and the Muslim World.

Unfortunately for Bin Laden, the US is a lot more moderate and restrained than he would have believed. Even though we have sent armies into the middle east, and have occupied two Muslim countries and put pressure on others we have yet to show the hatred that Bin Laden thought that we held for him, and thus he could not raise the Muslim world and a new Caliph against us.

Remember, in Bin Laden's eyes we're the evil ones, and he's the restrained one trying to vanquish a threat to the world. We've so far underperformed our part, and I don't find it surprising that he's a smart enough man to realize that his vision of how the last 4 years would unfold has definitely not come to pass. In my mind, most of his support is rather scattered to the wind. We've been hunting down Al Qaeda, and we've managed to turn Afghanistan and Iraq into two big question marks as for all parties concerned. The amount of anti-American sentiment right now seems to be rather low as most of the world is waiting to see how both the elections here in the States and the ones in Iraq come out before they can decide whether there is anything going on worth fighting over.

-Jag

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#13 Posted on 31.10.04 0914.14
Reposted on: 31.10.11 0923.23
There are a lot of good points made here about the tape. However, I will contend that I think Bin Laden is trying to reach out to the more moderate Muslium states. The tape shows him more as diplomate, which is far from, instead of some nut case having visions of jihand dancing in his head. He knows AlQueda has been on the run or at least giving the apperance of that. To be fair, I am surprised he isn't boasting about Iraqi being a mess.

I think he is throwing the gauntlent down on the U.S.'s forgein policy. He is taking everything Bush said about him and counter arguing with him. Instead of making himself the villian like Jaguar said, he is trying to be the hero. He is trying to be more civil in hopes of attracting others in his cause. Its a total shift from his past comments.

Does anyone else get the feeling this is a leader saying good bye to his troops? I don't know why that hit me, but it feels like an address given after a great war is fought and he is on the losing side of it. It almost reads like a teacher listing the reasons why a war occurs. Its just a bizzare speech.
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#14 Posted on 31.10.04 1807.00
Reposted on: 31.10.11 1808.55
Apparently, they may have left out some juicy bits
    Originally posted by Niles Lathem in the New York Post
    Osama bin Laden doesn't seem nearly so cocky in the unedited version of a videotape aired on al-Jazeera, complaining that the manhunt against him has hampered al Qaeda. Osama bin Laden's newest tape may have thrust him to the forefront of the presidential election, but what was not seen was the cave-dwelling terror lord talking about the setbacks al Qaeda has faced in recent months.

    Officials said that in the 18-minute long tape of which only six minutes were aired on the al-Jazeera Arab television network in the Middle East on Friday bin Laden bemoans the recent democratic elections in Afghanistan and the lack of violence involved with it.

    On the tape, bin Laden also says his terror organization has been hurt by the U.S. military's unrelenting manhunt for him and his cohorts on the Afghan-Pakistani border.

    A portion of the left-out footage includes a tirade aimed at President Bush and his father, former President George H.W. Bush, claiming the war in Iraq is purely over oil.
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