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The 7 - Baseball - Yankees in `05 -- What now? Register and log in to post!
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chill
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#1 Posted on 22.10.04 1734.32
Reposted on: 22.10.11 1734.55
Moves will be made over the winter, of course. Pitching will be made the number one priority, and this year, the Yanks will not have to go searching for three significant starting replacements like they did last year (Clemens, Pettitte, Wells).

So what needs to be done?

Here's my take, although I'm curious what other options people out there think will be available to the Yankees:

IN:
Carlos Beltran
Randy Johnson
Eric Milton
Jon Lieber (re-sign)
Miguel Cairo (re-sign)
Ruben Sierra (re-sign)
Travis Lee
cheap bullpen help (Nate Robertson?)

OUT:
Kevin Brown
Javier Vazquez
Kenny Lofton
Jason Giambi (if possible)
and the rest of the free agents





Promote this thread!
SC
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#2 Posted on 22.10.04 1758.24
Reposted on: 22.10.11 1758.28
Javier Vazquez is not going anywhere at $14 million. No one is going to take Kevin Brown. I don't know why you'd want Eric Milton of all the free agent starters out there. Or why you'd want Miguel Cairo back (not that he did anything wrong), or Ruben Sierra for that matter. No one is going to take Giambi or Bernie either, except retirement if Giambi can no longer play.

Vazquez I think is going to be fine anyway. He can pitch, maybe NY just wasn't for him. But we'll see. He only really died in the second half.

If they are able to get Beltran, Bernie will DH unless they eat a LOT of his salary and manage to move him. That means Giambi will have to be healthy enough to lumber around first again, which is a huge question mark.

Lieber should absolutely be brought back, he's at the point post-Tommy John when he should theoretically have his arm 100% back, and he showed that in the playoffs. Really great stuff from him. He's going to attract interest from other teams, though.

If they can find bullpen help (which is always a crapshoot) then that's where they'll need to go. Nate Robertson is not who I'd look to. BJ Ryan is going to end up a Yankee, and he is fucking great and will provide the lefty they needed badly all year.

They should be fine next year. Sure they collapsed, but they did it in the ALCS. They were still good.
chill
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#3 Posted on 22.10.04 1900.51
Reposted on: 22.10.11 1904.05
Arizona asked for Vazquez straight-up in return for Randy Johnson originally. I too think he'll be fine, but I don't see him back in pinstripes. The Dodgers, Giants, and a few other NL teams allegedly REALLY want a shot at Vazquez.

Brown's also very good, but the clubhouse is against him (not to mention management) if you believe what you hear from every sports reporter who enters the Yankees' clubhouse.
It's False
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#4 Posted on 23.10.04 0513.34
Reposted on: 23.10.11 0514.11
The only way Brown goes anywhere is if the Yankees pay a lot of the $15 million that's owed to him next year, a price they're likely willing to pay to make sure he doesn't throw another pitch for them again. Word is that Jason Giambi will be %100 by 2005, so he'll likely be back, meaning John Olerud won't, which is a big shame. If Beltran comes in, that means Kenny Lofton will need a new home. I still have a very real fear that they'll try and bring in Adrian Beltre and sort the infield mess later (maybe convert someone into OF?), even though it's more than likely silly.

The free agent pitching market is VERY light. But there's an entire offseason for the Yankees to try and bring in Randy Johnson. And Arizona just might be willing to take Brown and Vazquez off their hands for him.
Stefonics
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#5 Posted on 23.10.04 0630.43
Reposted on: 23.10.11 0630.53
Last I heard, Zona was looking to cut salaries. Bringing both Brown and Vazquez for Unit is counter-productive. Unit is better than both of them (still) and actually loves living and playing in Arizona (if reports are to be believed). His one condition for a trade last season was that he would approve a deal only if it bettered the DBacks. Brown certainly doesn't. Vazquez might in the future, or even near future, but that's an expensive risk to take when you're talking about dealing a proven commodity like Unit.

As far as Beltre is concerned, the Yanks will try. If he bites, they'll move the Anti-Babe to short and Jeter to second. IF all things go according to plan (meaning the payroll increases to 215 million or so), we'd be looking at a defense of Posada, Giambi, Jeter, Anti-Babe, Beltre, Matsui, Beltran, and Sheff. Moose is staying, Lieber should stay. They might bring in Pedro depending on the outcome of the Series. Possibly Milton. El Duque is still going to be hanging around. And I like the suggestion of BJ Ryan. Once again, depending on the outcome of the series, Ray King is a possibility. They need something back there to help out Rivera. If Quantrill rehabs over the winter and comes back 100%, that's a very fucking scary team.
Grimis
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#6 Posted on 23.10.04 0807.12
Reposted on: 23.10.11 0807.13
Unless this team has a heart transplant after that collapse they just had, they won't be going anywhere. They need some character guys after that gutless performance...
evilwaldo
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#7 Posted on 23.10.04 1031.06
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1037.46
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Unless this team has a heart transplant after that collapse they just had, they won't be going anywhere. They need some character guys after that gutless performance...


True.

The Yankees real problem is that they have boxed themselves into a corner. Nobody wants to trade for people on the roster because of their salaries and the farm system is bare. If the worst team in baseball, Arizona, could not find a couple of salvageable players in the minor league system then what hope do they have of convincing a better club? Just look at how long the Yankees courted Arizona and THAT shows you the main problem they will have in the offseason.
spf
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#8 Posted on 23.10.04 1252.07
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1252.09
If the Yanks need to they can just eat Brown's salary or any of the others. I'd be surprised if they don't sign 2 out of Pavano, Ortiz, Martinez and Clement, along with Beltran and Beltre. A $250 million payroll would not surprise me in the slightest, esp. with Cashman in the last year of his GM contract, George will give him everything he wants, so that there's NO excuses if they don't win next year, as this George seems to be less hasty about firing people.
SC
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#9 Posted on 23.10.04 1412.50
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1415.46
    Originally posted by spf
    Pavano, Ortiz, Martinez and Clement, along with Beltran and Beltre.


Unless they move Jeter to 2B, they won't be signing Beltre, and there are teams out there (Baltimore, perhaps) that will be offering Beltre really good deals because he's 25 and just exploded in a pitcher's park. If you ask me he still seems a lot like Tony Batista, but obviously the upside is still more than there. And he can field. This would require Jeter to swallow some pride and move over for A-Rod and Beltre, and as much as I can shit on Jeter, I think he's more than ready to do that sort of thing after the ALCS.

Pavano has said he does not want to play for the Yankees, and he's a native of Connecticut. I have strong doubts Pedro Martinez would go to the Yankees, for a number of reasons. Matt Clement is going to scare some teams off by having shit the bed down the stretch. 3.03 ERA on July 31, 3.68 final.

Russ Ortiz seems the most likely of those four pitchers to end up with the Yankees. He's extremely durable and reliable. Not an ace, but I don't think they need an ace (I also don't think they HAVE one). They just need pitchers to be consistent. With Mussina, Lieber and Ortiz, they would have a solid top three of guys you can at least count on to not die on you. Their offense should be good enough to carry them, particularly if they get Beltran, which they will.
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#10 Posted on 23.10.04 1435.30
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1437.34
    Originally posted by ScottChrist
      Originally posted by spf
      Pavano, Ortiz, Martinez and Clement, along with Beltran and Beltre.


    Unless they move Jeter to 2B, they won't be signing Beltre, and there are teams out there (Baltimore, perhaps) that will be offering Beltre really good deals because he's 25 and just exploded in a pitcher's park. If you ask me he still seems a lot like Tony Batista, but obviously the upside is still more than there. And he can field. This would require Jeter to swallow some pride and move over for A-Rod and Beltre, and as much as I can shit on Jeter, I think he's more than ready to do that sort of thing after the ALCS.

    Pavano has said he does not want to play for the Yankees, and he's a native of Connecticut. I have strong doubts Pedro Martinez would go to the Yankees, for a number of reasons. Matt Clement is going to scare some teams off by having shit the bed down the stretch. 3.03 ERA on July 31, 3.68 final.

    Russ Ortiz seems the most likely of those four pitchers to end up with the Yankees. He's extremely durable and reliable. Not an ace, but I don't think they need an ace (I also don't think they HAVE one). They just need pitchers to be consistent. With Mussina, Lieber and Ortiz, they would have a solid top three of guys you can at least count on to not die on you. Their offense should be good enough to carry them, particularly if they get Beltran, which they will.


Pavano has indicated that he would like to go to the Red Sox. If Lowe and/or Pedro leave in the offseason he would be a nice FA pickup.

I would be surprised to see Pedro on the Yanks, especially with the bad blood between him and some of the players there. I think George might just offer him something to drive up the Red Sox price. Lowe is probably as good as gone though, despite his performance in the postseason. His agent turned down a 3yr/$27M deal in spring training and I don't see the sox offering that again. Some other team might though (probably Baltimore or Detroit, which is his hometown).
Gugs
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#11 Posted on 23.10.04 1528.16
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1529.03
The Red Sox have officially announced that they will not offer Derek Lowe a contract for next year, and Lowe has said that if it were offered he would not take it. So yeah, he's gone.

If there is any justice in the world, Pedro will turn down a big money contract to sign (and retire) with Boston.

With Pavano saying that he doesn't want to play in New York, the market becomes remarkably thin. The Yanks might have to resort to taking a shot with Kevin Millwood, or picking up Lowe.
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#12 Posted on 23.10.04 1543.00
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1545.06
    Originally posted by gugs
    The Red Sox have officially announced that they will not offer Derek Lowe a contract for next year, and Lowe has said that if it were offered he would not take it. So yeah, he's gone.




Where was this? I hadn't seen or heard anything about it.

    Originally posted by gugs
    If there is any justice in the world, Pedro will turn down a big money contract to sign (and retire) with Boston.



I think it all depends on what the difference is between what the Sox offer and what some other team offers. If some team is gonna give him $16+M per year I don't see the Sox coming anywhere close to that.

    Originally posted by gugs
    With Pavano saying that he doesn't want to play in New York, the market becomes remarkably thin. The Yanks might have to resort to taking a shot with Kevin Millwood, or picking up Lowe.


Pavano was quoted in the Herald the other day that he would be interested in signing with Boston in the offseason. He would be a nice replacement for lowe.

(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 23.10.04 1643)
Big Bad
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#13 Posted on 23.10.04 1548.37
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1549.38
The only way Pedro signs with the Yankees is if he plans to intentionally get lit up in next year's ALCS and then yanks off his pinstripes to reveal a "Who's Your Daddy?" t-shirt. Man, pro sports needs more heel turns.

The Yankees need to sign more John Oleruds, not release the ones they have. Grimis is right, they need an infusion of character; guys like Sheffield and A-Rod might produce, but they aren't leaders. Jeter, Rivera and Bernie can only do so much.

p.s. Is Anti-Babe going to be Rodriguez's official new nickname? I prefer "Ball-Slapper" myself.
Brian P. Dermody
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#14 Posted on 23.10.04 1740.58
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1741.43
A buddy and I were discussing this. The Yanks play with heart and win. They play like they played, they lose to a team with heart.
Barring Rivera's show of testicular fortitude in game 1, only Jeter and Cairo were playing with any kind of spirit. Particularly when it stopped looking like a lock.
Only half kidding, my buddy offers, "You think we could trade A-Rod for Eckstein straight up? Teach him third?"

At the very least, Kevin Brown should be shot through the lungs. Or traded to Milwaukee for the sausage race costumes.

Hell, Dick Cheney has more heart than the '04 Yanks.
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#15 Posted on 23.10.04 1848.53
Reposted on: 23.10.11 1850.57
I would think they'd keep Olerud around as Giambi's caddy.


The big reason for Milton is that he's a lefty and a former product of the Yankee system.

If they're unable to trade for Randy Johnson (Vazques + Vazquez's salary?) I could see them making a push for Odalis Perez. The biggest thing this Yankee team lacked was effective left-handed pitching. I'd heard somewhere that there's an option on Al Leiter's contract with the Mets that may not be picked up. If this happens, I can see them going after him as well.

I think Paul Sullivan from the Chicago Tribune floated the idea of moving Brown and his salary to the Cubs for Sosa and his, but I can't see this happening because there won't be anywhere for Sosa to play if the Yankees sign Beltran.
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#16 Posted on 24.10.04 0042.26
Reposted on: 24.10.11 0044.48
Cashman was reportedly on Mike and the Mad Dog today saying it would be hard to increase payroll. Said the only way they could turn a profit this year is if they won it all. Can't vouch for this, but it was reported on the Internet, so it's gotta be true.

Getting into the speculation:

The Yanks need pitching more than they need hitting. Really, they don't "need" anything, of course, but if either area can be said to be a deficiency I'd say it's the pitching. Their amazing come from behind victories can be credited almost entirely to their mediocre pitching giving up runs early, combined with an all-star lineup, which, over nine innings, will almsot inevitably come back.

Re: Beltran. I don't think this will stop the Yanks from getting him, but they have a logjam. One more year of Bernie Williams, plus Giambi's albatross of a contract. No one's taking Giambi. They can surely offload Bernie if they eat enough salary, but will they? He's one of those vaunted "core Yankees."

Re: Beltre. Captain Jetes wasn't moved (and in fairness, I don't know that he was even asked) for A-Rod, a gold-glover and reigning MVP. You think he's gonna move now? He's a bloody myth. Forget that it makes baseball sense, the man has been deified in New York and nationwide. Does George move him? Does George allow Torre to move him? Because, despite his ALCS average hovering around the Mendoza line, we all know this series loss was in know way Jeter's fault.

And this character thing is, to a degree, a canard. I'm not against the idea of character counting in baseball, but, come on. A lineup of nine David Ecksteins loses to a lineup of nine Gary "Balco" Sheffields every time. I don't think Gary Sheffield lost his bat after game three because he's an asshole. These things happen.
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#17 Posted on 24.10.04 1036.32
Reposted on: 24.10.11 1037.01
    Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34
      Originally posted by gugs
      The Red Sox have officially announced that they will not offer Derek Lowe a contract for next year, and Lowe has said that if it were offered he would not take it. So yeah, he's gone.




    Where was this? I hadn't seen or heard anything about it.


I also can't find a damned thing about that. A little attribution, please?

    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Is Anti-Babe going to be Rodriguez's official new nickname? I prefer "Ball-Slapper" myself.


(image removed)
Image courtesy Boston Dirt Dogs

We can't just call him "Slap-Nuts?" Jeff Jarrett could throw out the first El Kabong...

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    I...think Gary Sheffield...he's an asshole.


After a little journalistic editing for content (read: taking sh*t way out of context), I'd agree w/ you. :-)

And how's this for karma:

    Originally posted by the official Boston Red Sox site
    The Red Sox are really taking this 1980 Team USA hockey thing to heart.
    There was Doug Mientkiewicz sitting in front of his locker after the Red Sox beat the Cardinals, 11-9, in a wild Game 1 of the World Series on Saturday night at Fenway Park, wearing a replica Mike Eruzione jersey and speaking about pride and teamwork.

    (image removed)

    The Red Sox have been watching the movie, "Miracle" for inspiration through their record come-from-behind victory in the American League Championship Series over the Yankees and now into the World Series. Eruzione scored the winning goal to defeat the Soviet Union in the semifinals. The next day the USA defeated Finland for the gold medal
    .


Awesome.

Gugs
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#18 Posted on 24.10.04 1512.09
Reposted on: 24.10.11 1512.10
    Originally posted by The Thrill
      Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34
        Originally posted by gugs
        The Red Sox have officially announced that they will not offer Derek Lowe a contract for next year, and Lowe has said that if it were offered he would not take it. So yeah, he's gone.




      Where was this? I hadn't seen or heard anything about it.


    I also can't find a damned thing about that. A little attribution, please?


I believe I heard it on the NESN pregame show. Not exactly a perfect source, but I think it's pretty much assured that Lowe won't be back.
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#19 Posted on 25.10.04 0834.54
Reposted on: 25.10.11 0836.28
It doesn't shock me that Pavano would want back here. He is from NE (New Britain CT) and was an old Sox farmhand. I think he wants his shot to prove to the Sox regime what they missed out on by trading him. I remember Bagwell a few years back when he was FA wanted back here. Any NE kids dream is to play in Fenway wearing a Sox jersey.

I too have read that Lowe will not be back. My bet is he ends up in Anaheim with the owner there selling him as a "big game pitcher who won in the playoffs" (I figure he gets 8 year from them).

I would like to believe that Tek and Pedro will be the guys that will come back. I have a feeling Tek will be in LA next year but Pedro will be here.

BJ Ryan is scary good. He is the type of lefty the Empire desperately need out of that 'pen.

I really think that Yankees team biggest issue was that they are a bunch of superstars and the team has no real "heart". Jeter and Bernie are the only guys in that locker room who have guts if you ask me. Jeter even came out and said "This team is not the same anymore".

This Red Sox team reminds me of the old Yankees dynasty back in the late 90s and early 00: Good starting pitching who come through at the necessary times(Schilling, Pedro, Wake), solid pen with a good lefty and righty set up coming out (Embree and Timlin) with an "ice in their veins closer" (Foulke), a few superstars (Manny, Big Papi), a super leadoff hitter (Damon),character guys who are team leaders (Millar, Nixon, Tek), a few additions who became surprises (Bellhorn, Cabrera)excellent role players who know their role (Kapler, Roberts, Mueller, Pokey)

Every day I watch Nixon play, he reminds me more and more of a placid version of O'Neill, which is a GREAT thing :)! Meaning if he isn't hitting shit, he is busting his ass more in the field trying his best to make something happen. His intensity is so contagious.

(edited by wordlife on 25.10.04 0636)
BOSsportsfan34
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#20 Posted on 25.10.04 0915.06
Reposted on: 25.10.11 0915.17
    Originally posted by wordlife
    It doesn't shock me that Pavano would want back here. He is from NE (New Britain CT) and was an old Sox farmhand. I think he wants his shot to prove to the Sox regime what they missed out on by trading him. I remember Bagwell a few years back when he was FA wanted back here. Any NE kids dream is to play in Fenway wearing a Sox jersey.



Both Bagwell and Pavano were former Sox farm players who got traded away. Big difference between the situations...

Bagwell traded for: Larry Anderson.

Pavano traded for(along with another Sox farm player Tony armas Jr.): Pedro Martinez.

Sox got arguably the best pitcher of the last 30-40 years when he was at his peak for 2 minor league guys, one of which (Pavano) didn't really do much in his career until this past season and the other guy who has a career 32-41 W/L record and a 4.21 ERA. It's nice to see Pavano become the pitched some though he would be but you still do that deal every time.



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