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30.6.09 1952
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Debate III - Electric Boogaloo Register and log in to post!
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CubsWoo
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#1 Posted on 13.10.04 2134.36
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2137.01
Good debate, a little boring at points, but overall engaging. Bush was aggressive (wipe the damn spittle from your mouth!) but overall he kept slamming Kerry on point after point. I'm suprised he finally hit the vote on Desert Storm.

Overall? Yeah, I'm biased, but 10-8 for Bush, with a few knockdowns.

EDIT: I completely forgot the little jab about trusting broadcast media... unnecessary, but it got me laughing.

(edited by CubsWoo on 13.10.04 2140)
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ScreamingHeadGuy
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#2 Posted on 13.10.04 2141.07
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2142.58
Kerry really looked smarmy for the first 20 minutes. Then, at the end, he totally laid-on the Boston-esque accent ("ideer" instead of "idea"). The whole "Cheney's daughter is a lesbian" line just oozed like a snake-oil merchant; that totally ticked me off.

Bush had improved over the course of these debates. I wonder, were the debates to continue, if W. would totally school Kerry one of these days.

Anyways, I'm still not changing my mind. So, overall, the debates were a waste of time for me (but it's not like I really had anything better to do these few hours).
LionJeetSingh
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#3 Posted on 13.10.04 2142.12
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2144.51
To those who've lost jobs, go to school you losers.

riiiiiiiiiiiiight
Gugs
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#4 Posted on 13.10.04 2143.56
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2151.31
I am obviously biased, but I saw this as an ass-kicking by Kerry. Not as one-sided as the first, but close to that.
LionJeetSingh
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#5 Posted on 13.10.04 2144.33
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2152.53
Did Bush say it is not credible to quote leading news organizations?
Dahak
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#6 Posted on 13.10.04 2148.07
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2153.42
Did Kerry say that he would not make any Federal judge who would try to change any of the Constitution? That seems pretty hard and very subjective to me.
rockdotcom_2.0
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#7 Posted on 13.10.04 2152.09
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2155.57
I would say it was Kerry won it. Bush lied early on about the Osama Bin Laden quote. Kerry got him on Affirmative action, minimum wage and the Assault Weapons Ban. Bush also didnt answer the National guard questions, Kerry had the perfect answer in expanding the Army by two divisions. Kerry got in trouble when asked about how he was going to pay for his programs. Kerry also shouldnt have brought up Cheney's daughter. Bush scored on the first Gulf War vote but he should have brought that up two debates ago. The faith questions and the closers about the wives was complete horseshit.

Its mission accomplished for Kerry. He showed in all three debates thats hes very qualified to be president. I think he did as much as you can do to win the undecideds and the swings.

But then again Bush didn hurt himself too much which is as much as he could hope for. The guy cannot talk off the cuff.
Roy.
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#8 Posted on 13.10.04 2155.30
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2159.02
Did you ever see older episodes of Three's Company? Whenever Mr. Roper (Norman Fell) made a funny quip, he'd turn and mug to the camera with a big goofy grin. Every time Bush said something "witty" he looked like he was channeling Norman Fell. I kept looking for Joyce DeWitt.

I'd call it a tie, with both men looking bad at certain points. There was too much finger pointing and unprovable (without mega research) accusations for me to say anything now. It didn't change my vote, but I can see how Bush's faith thing could change some minds (my mom loves that stuff). I was impressed that Bush managed to control his facial expressions this time, and John Kerry's smile almost looks natural (almost).
Big Bad
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#9 Posted on 13.10.04 2155.48
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2159.03
I was surprised about the Bin Laden quote too. That was a clear and obvious lie from Bush, since I remember distinctly seeing a clip where he says that he "doesn't worry about Bin Laden too much." It might've even been in Fahrenheit 911, I think.

It seemed pretty even to me, though Kerry said some new material and Bush basically said his same stuff but was more composed this time.
Teppan-Yaki
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#10 Posted on 13.10.04 2222.56
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2224.53
Even the SCLM has jumped over the OBL comment:

    Originally posted by CNN
    "Q: Do you believe the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead of alive?

    BUSH: As I say, we hadn't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, you know, again, I don't know where he is.

    I'll repeat what I said: I truly am not that concerned about him."


Kerry won this one handily, IMO. BTW, while Bush has met with members of the Congressional Black Caucus -- he's still stiffed the NAACP, which no one put in the fact check. But minorities still need to go to school, since NCLB has become the "hard work" of tonight.

Since I haven't put this into play:

Gibson > Lehrer > Scheiffer > Ifill

Finally -- I think Bush was going to try to put a "liberal media" contrast into play, but I think it snapped into his mind that Bob Scheiffer works for none other than CBS. It came off weird.

(edited by Teppan-Yaki on 13.10.04 2223)
OMEGA
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#11 Posted on 13.10.04 2245.04
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2248.18
Overall, I'd give a slight win to John Kerry. Not as close as the second debate, but not nearly as one-sided as the first debate either. Still, I'd say Kerry is 3 for 3 in the debates.

However, I think that both sides needed a knockout and neither side got it.

Thought the last question was pretty pointless, and just led to each candidate talking up their wives. Some funny comments from both guys, but it wasn't anything I needed to hear either.

I was suprised that no stem-cell research questions came up either. That was something I was highly anticipating, and it never came up.

I totally agree with Teppan-Yaki as far as the moderators go. Gibson (who was great) > Lehrer > Scheiffer > Ifill (who was awful).

In the end, I'd say:

1st debate: Big Kerry win
VP debate: Slight Cheney win
2nd debate: Slight Kerry win
3rd debate: Slight Kerry win.

(edited by OMEGA on 13.10.04 2346)
Leroy
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#12 Posted on 13.10.04 2302.18
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2302.42
Before this descends into a pro-Bush/pro-Kerry fight fest...

Did anyone else notice the spit-build up that accumulated in the corner of Bush's mouth within the early moments of the debate? I had to busy myself with other things while listening - it was driving me NUTS.
MoeGates
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#13 Posted on 13.10.04 2303.39
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2306.59
Why is everyone hating on my girl Gwen Ifill? I thought she did great.

As for the Debate - whatever. The Bush supporters thought he won, the Kerry supporters thought he won, par for the course.

I think there's two scerarios of how this election will go - there's the normal way, which is that the election stays tight, the undecides break for the challenger, the boosted turnout helps the Democrat, and Kerry wins by a few points. Then there's what the Bush campaign is hoping for - that the polls stay tight, but when it comes down to it, the soft Kerry and undecided voters say "you know what - I guess I can at least count on Bush to kill some terrorists" and Bush wins by 10 points.

This election is all about whether Kerry can overcome that perception. If he can meet a threshold of trust on fighting terrorism - not necessarily score as good on the issue as Bush, just meet threshold - he wins. If not he's toast. Simple as that. And I can tell you something else - we have not even remotely reached the bottom of the barrel in terms of Bush campaign tricks and tactics to try and portray Kerry as someone you can't trust on terrorism. It may or may not work, Kerry may or may not reach that threshold, but this is going to be the dirtiest, most no-hold-barred campaign run by an incumbent president in modern history.
fuelinjected
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#14 Posted on 13.10.04 2322.31
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2323.53
    Originally posted by Leroy
    Before this descends into a pro-Bush/pro-Kerry fight fest...

    Did anyone else notice the spit-build up that accumulated in the corner of Bush's mouth within the early moments of the debate? I had to busy myself with other things while listening - it was driving me NUTS.


Yeah, it was like WrestleMania 12 all over again - WIPE YOUR MOUTH BRET!
OlFuzzyBastard
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#15 Posted on 13.10.04 2327.11
Reposted on: 13.10.11 2329.01
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I was surprised about the Bin Laden quote too. That was a clear and obvious lie from Bush, since I remember distinctly seeing a clip where he says that he "doesn't worry about Bin Laden too much." It might've even been in Fahrenheit 911, I think.

    It seemed pretty even to me, though Kerry said some new material and Bush basically said his same stuff but was more composed this time.


I don't get that either. You'd think after Cheney got embarassed by his "I never met John Edwards before tonight" lie, you'd think they'd be a little more careful about busting out lines that can be proven false so easily.
Grimis
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#16 Posted on 14.10.04 0620.48
Reposted on: 14.10.11 0620.54
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    As for the Debate - whatever. The Bush supporters thought he won, the Kerry supporters thought he won, par for the course.
Exactly. Bush won in a rout tonight and it wasn't even close. Kerry didn't embarass himself, but he looked indistinguished as always. Hell, even the media is calling it a tie, so you know Bush won decisively. Kerry just indicated tonight as he has again and again that he is just not competent enough to lead the country. We all understand that politicians, especially at this level, do not often speak in specifics, however how many plans does Kerry have that he will not talk about?

The Tony Soprano was moronic, which is a shame because the first part could have been good.

The Cheney daughter comment was a cheap shot.

Kerry still can't explain where the money is coming from.

Both of them talked about increasing the minimum wage, which is unfortuante since we should be going the other way.

Kerry looked extremely uncomfortable when talking about Teresa and about faith. I don't fault him for that though because both are very, very personal things. Bush is extremely comfortable talking about his family and his faith, and Kerry is obviously not.
Teppan-Yaki
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#17 Posted on 14.10.04 0822.17
Reposted on: 14.10.11 0822.25
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Exactly. Bush won in a rout tonight and it wasn't even close. Kerry didn't embarass himself, but he looked indistinguished as always.


Gallup:
Kerry 52%
Bush 39%

Gallup ID:
Republican 36
Democrats 36
Independents 28
---------------
CBS News Poll

Kerry 39
Bush 25
Tie 36
---------------
CNN Focus Group

24 on the panel

Kerry 10
Bush 7
Undecided 7
---------------
ABC News

Kerry 42
Bush 41

ABC ID:
38% GOP
30% Dem
28% Independent
---------------

Earlier posts are correct -- most of us are biased towards are candidate. That said, when it comes to polling, we're not the demographic. In other words, we need to take ourselves on the board out of the equation and let the polls speak for themselves, and I think they have to who won the debate last night.

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Kerry just indicated tonight as he has again and again that he is just not competent enough to lead the country.


And W's lie about OBL makes him just as competent? That's the ultimate flip-flop; here's someone who was our greatest enemy, then wasn't concerned about and then last night it's "of course I'm concerned about it!"
Mayhem
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#18 Posted on 14.10.04 0851.25
Reposted on: 14.10.11 0853.53
When the final question was asked at the end of the night about the women in their life and Bush did that little snickering laugh, did anyone else think he did a dead-on impression of Will Ferrell as Bush?

(edited by Mayhem on 14.10.04 0905)
GRL
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#19 Posted on 14.10.04 0852.37
Reposted on: 14.10.11 0853.53
I tend to merely lurk in this folder, but I have to admit I laughed OUT LOUD when Bush began his diatribe against trusting the media and then mumbled into a "never mind."
A Fan
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#20 Posted on 14.10.04 0858.33
Reposted on: 14.10.11 0859.01
Bush won the debate if the debate consisted of never answering the question. I watched most of thie while going back and forth with the sleeper hold the Yankees were using to put away Boston. I noticed Bush never answered the questions at all, he would switch subjects. When asked about minium wage, he went straight to education. He said there would be no litimus test for Judges, but never answered if he would overtun Roe v Wade and that was just two questions, I saw. Plus, he lied about the litimus test since he said he would never apoint a judge that wouldn't allow the pledge of algience in school, because it had God in the title. George, thats a litimus test.

Kerry looked good and answered the questions as straight forward as he could. I like his plan for health insurance and saving social security. Granted, I liked it, because Bush has no plan, he was just saying Kerry's wouldn't work and had no plan. I'll take wild plan over no plan when it comes to the imediate threat of no social security and trying to pay my bills.

I think the Republicans shouldn't be happy over slight wins or even ties. They needed momentum coming out of the debates, they have none. They have people in their own party thining about switching sides or not that confident with him if you believe the ABC polls and other polls coming about. They needed a landslide victory in one of the three presidential debates, they got a ok win in the Vice Presidents, but I think that got wiped out by Chenny's website flop. The race is going to be tight, but it shouldn't be for Bush. He should have walked out of the debates with at least a five point lead, now it looks tied and headed towards Kerry. If I'm a Republican, I should be scared.
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