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The 7 - Baseball - Awards Thread
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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 5.10.04 1220.13
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1221.04
Since I did such a good job predicting this season(KC win the Central? LA finish last?) I thought it would be good here to talk about who should the top three award finishers in each category.

AL MVP
1. Vladimir Guerrero, OF, Anaheim(.337, 39, 126)
2. Gary Sheffield, OF, New York(.290, 36, 121)
3. Miguel Tejada, SS, Baltimore(.311, 34, 150)

Vlad clearly pushed the Angels into the playoffs and drove that team more than Sheffield the Yankees. Tejada would probably win the award had the O's finished over .500

NL MVP
1. Barry Bonds, OF, San Francisco(.362, 45, 102, 232 walks)
2. Adrian Beltre, 3B, Los Angeles(.334, 48, 121)
3. Albert Pujols, 1B, St. Louis(.336, 46, 123)

Sad to say, but the Giants would be no where without Bonds.

NL Cy Young
1. Randy Johnson, Arizona(16-14, 2.60, 290 K, .197 BAA)
2. Roger Clemens, Houston(18-4, 2.98, 218 K, .217 BAA)
3. Carlos Zambrano, Chicago(16-8, 2.75, 188 K, .225 BAA)

Johnson won't win the award because of his record, but he should. It really falls off after Clemens and Johnson. Schmidt pitched himself right out of this award in the second half.

AL Cy Young
1. Johan Santana, Minnesota(20-6, 2.61, 265 K, .192 BAA)
2. Curt Schilling, Boston(21-6, 3.26, 203 K, .239 BAA)
3. Mariano Rivera, New York(4-2, 1.94, 53 SV)

If Santana does not win unanimously, it would be a travesty.

NL ROY
1. Jason Bay, OF, Pittsburgh(.282, 26, 82)
2. Akinori Otsuka, RP, San Diego(7-2, 1.75, 2 SV, 34 Holds, 75 GP)
3. Khalil Green, SS, San Diego(.273, 15, 65)

I don't understand all the love for Green as ROY. He will be a tremendous player, but both Bay and Green's teammate Otsuka had better years.

AL ROY
1. Shingo Takatsu, RP, Chicago(6-4, 2.31, 19 SV, 59 GP)
2. Bobby Crosby, SS, Oakland(.239, 22, 64)
3. Zack Greinke, RHP, Kansas City(8-11, 3.97, 100 K)

AL Manager of the Year
1. Buck Showalter, Texas
2. Terry Francona, Boston
3. Eric Wedge, Cleveland

NL Manager of the Year
1. Phil Garner, Houston
2. Tony LaRussa, St. Louis
3. Jim Tracy, Los Angeles

Garner deserves it because I'm not sure what he put in their water, but it worked....

(edited by Grimis on 5.10.04 1412)
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thecubsfan
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#2 Posted on 5.10.04 1254.48
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1256.58
Lew Ford's not rookie eligible. He was on the Twins roster too much last year season before Sept 1st.
Grimis
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#3 Posted on 5.10.04 1311.09
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1311.13
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    Lew Ford's not rookie eligible. He was on the Twins roster too much last year season before Sept 1st.
Daisy if he wasn't(blasted ESPN stat page).

In that case, see above.
JoshMann
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#4 Posted on 5.10.04 1353.02
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1354.07
AL MVP

1) Gary Sheffield, Yankees
2) Vlad Guererro, Angels
3) David Ortiz, Red Sox

Sheffield should have won it last year for Atlanta and didn't get it and all he's done this year is be the most consistant day-to-day player for the Yankees all season.

NL MVP

1) Barry Bonds, Giants
2) Albert Pujols, Cards
3) Adrian Beltre, Dodgers

Bonds WAS the whole F'n show this year and set a new stnadard for intentional walks. Meanwhile, both Beltre and Pujols have top-shelf stat years on winning teams and get the shaft. THAT'S how valuable Bonds is.

AL Cy Young

Johann Santana, Twins
Mariano Rivera, Yankees
Curt Schilling, Red Sox

May have been Rivera's best year ever, and if there weren't some strong MVP candidates, you cold make a case for him winning it. As it was, Santana carried the Twins through the summer drive.

NL Cy Young

Roger Clemens, Astros
Carl Pavano, Marlins
Eric Gagne, Dodgers

Pretty open field, as you can also make a case for Zambrano, Johnson, Roy Oswalt, Armando Benitez, Jason Isringhausen and Jason Schmidt (and Jake Peavy will be most people's sleeper pick in 2005).

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#5 Posted on 5.10.04 1414.55
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1416.18
AL MVP

1) Vlad Guerrero, Anaheim
2) Manny Ramirez, Boston
3) Pudge Rodriguez, Detroit

People thought I-Rod was done TWO years ago, before he led the Fish to the World Series. And all he did this year was hit .334 and help return the Tigers to respectability.

NL MVP

1) Barry Bonds, SF
2) Adrian Beltre, LA
3) Albert Pujols, St. Louis

As much as I despise the man, I've NEVER seen teams so afraid to pitch to one man. The walks say it all- he is the most dominating player in the game.

AL CY YOUNG

1) Johan Santana, Min.
2) Curt Schilling, Bos.
3) Mariano Rivera, NYY

And to think, the Marlins let Santana get away

NL CY YOUNG

1) Roger Clemens, Hou.
2) Randy Johnson, Arz.
3) Carl Pavano, Fla.

Why was the Rocket going to retire? He's still one of the best in the game.

AL ROOKIE

1) Shingo Takatsu, CWS
2) Zach Greinke, KC
3) Bobby Crosby, Oak

A sad list of contenders: other than Takatsu, you have a guy who didn't finish .500 (Greinke), one that hit only .239 (Crosby) and another with a 5.00 ERA and more BB's than K's (Cabrera).

NL ROOKIE

1) Jason Bay, Pit.
2) Akinori Otsuka, SD
3) Khalil Greene, SD

**SPECIAL FIREMAN OF THE YEAR AWARD**
Armando Benitez, Fla.

47 saves, 1.29 ERA. I remember defending him on this very board when the Marlins signed him this off-season. I've been salivating at the day when I could get justice. And here it is :)
eviljonhunt81
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#6 Posted on 5.10.04 1417.43
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1417.58
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Sad to say, but the Giants would be no where without Bonds.


Uhhhh . . .

Last season, Pujols was denied because the Giants went to the Playoffs and the Cardinals didn't. This season, Pujols is denied because the Cardinals go to the Playoffs and the Giants don't?
Whitebacon
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#7 Posted on 5.10.04 1419.22
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1419.30
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
      Originally posted by Grimis
      Sad to say, but the Giants would be no where without Bonds.


    Uhhhh . . .

    Last season, Pujols was denied because the Giants went to the Playoffs and the Cardinals didn't. This season, Pujols is denied because the Cardinals go to the Playoffs and the Giants don't?


Take each player out of their respective lineups and replace them with someone near the league average. The Giants likely finish well behind the Rockies in the West, while the Cardinals likely still win the Central.


Believe me, I'm far from a Bonds apologist, but there's no way the Giants are contenders without his lineup presence.



(edited by Whitebacon on 5.10.04 1220)
eviljonhunt81
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#8 Posted on 5.10.04 1422.38
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1422.49
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
      Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
        Originally posted by Grimis
        Sad to say, but the Giants would be no where without Bonds.


      Uhhhh . . .

      Last season, Pujols was denied because the Giants went to the Playoffs and the Cardinals didn't. This season, Pujols is denied because the Cardinals go to the Playoffs and the Giants don't?


    Take each player out of their respective lineups and replace them with someone near the league average. The Giants likely finish well behind the Rockies in the West, while the Cardinals likely still win the Central.


    Believe me, I'm far from a Bonds apologist, but there's no way the Giants are contenders without his lineup presence.



    (edited by Whitebacon on 5.10.04 1220)



I'm not denying that; just pointing out the changing requirements for the MVP.
Whitebacon
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#9 Posted on 5.10.04 1425.36
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1426.57
The same logic applied last year, regardless of playoff berth. It will likely continue to do so until Bonds stops being good, or when even his greatness stops carrying the Giants.
SC
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#10 Posted on 5.10.04 1426.49
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1429.01
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    Last season, Pujols was denied because the Giants went to the Playoffs and the Cardinals didn't. This season, Pujols is denied because the Cardinals go to the Playoffs and the Giants don't?


My God, he's "denied" because Bonds is a player and a half better than him. Both years.

    Originally posted by geemoney
    People thought I-Rod was done TWO years ago, before he led the Fish to the World Series. And all he did this year was hit .334 and help return the Tigers to respectability.


I bet a lot of managers would like to have you as an owner if 72-90 is your definition of respectability.

AL MVP
1. Manny Ramirez
2. Vladimir Guerrero
3. Melvin Mora
4. Gary Sheffield
5. Johan Santana
6. David Ortiz
7. Miguel Tejada
8. Ichiro Suzuki
9. Hideki Matsui
10. Mark Teixeira

NL MVP
1. Barry Bonds
2. Albert Pujols
3. Lance Berkman
4. Jim Edmonds
5. Adrian Beltre
6. Todd Helton
7. J.D. Drew
8. Scott Rolen
9. Bobby Abreu
10. Aramis Ramirez

AL Cy Young
1. Johan Santana
2. Curt Schilling
3. Joe Nathan
4. Mariano Rivera
5. Tom Gordon

NL Cy Young
1. Randy Johnson
2. Ben Sheets
3. Roger Clemens
4. Armando Benitez
5. Carlos Zambrano

AL Manager of the Year
1. Buck Showalter
2. Mike Scioscia
3. Eric Wedge

NL Manager of the Year
1. Bobby Cox
2. Jim Tracy
3. Bruce Bochy

AL Rookie of the Year: Shingo Takatsu
NL Rookie of the Year: Jason Bay

(edited by ScottChrist on 5.10.04 1528)
geemoney
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#11 Posted on 5.10.04 1431.36
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1435.10
    Originally posted by ScottChrist


      Originally posted by geemoney
      People thought I-Rod was done TWO years ago, before he led the Fish to the World Series. And all he did this year was hit .334 and help return the Tigers to respectability.


    I bet a lot of managers would like to have you as an owner if 72-90 is your definition of respectability.

I meant as compared to last year. You weren't going to run over them like you did last year. And after the last three years, yeah, I'm sure this year they were more respectable.
Grimis
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#12 Posted on 5.10.04 1433.30
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1435.34
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
      Originally posted by Grimis
      Sad to say, but the Giants would be no where without Bonds.


    Uhhhh . . .

    Last season, Pujols was denied because the Giants went to the Playoffs and the Cardinals didn't. This season, Pujols is denied because the Cardinals go to the Playoffs and the Giants don't?
I don't think I ever stated one way or the other on the issue.

Nevertheless, the Cards still content w/o Pujols. The Giants finish ten under without Bonds...
Guru Zim
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#13 Posted on 5.10.04 1527.01
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1528.22
    Originally posted by someone
    NL ROY
    1. Jason Bay, OF, Pittsburgh(.282, 26, 82)
    2. Akinori Otsuka, RP, San Diego(7-2, 1.75, 2 SV, 34 Holds, 75 GP)
    3. Khalil Green, SS, San Diego(.273, 15, 65)


All of these guys have a San Diego connection, so it makes me proud.

That said, I've got to pimp Khalil for ROY. I know most of you here didn't watch 100 Padres games this season, but I did. There is no way that the Padres would have been in a position for Aki to hold games in the 8th without Khalil. The infield was THAT much better with him this year. I am constantly amazed by the plays that he makes, and although I can't find double play numbers for the past two seasons, it has to be higher by a lot. The Pads went from 64-98 in 2003 to 87-75 this season, and a lot of that was due to the improved defense. Top that off with his 15 home runs (which means he out produced Klesko) and I've got to give him the nod.

Now, I didn't watch Bay this season, so if he is a defensive star then I guess I can see it, but from what I saw of him before he hurt himself last year (which was not much - 3 games in the regular season) he didn't stand out as a star. He's obviously not up there due to his 26 home runs, so what am I missing about him? I don't watch a ton of sports center, so I'm sure there is something to this - I just want to know what it is.

(edited by Guru Zim on 5.10.04 1327)
SC
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#14 Posted on 5.10.04 1535.23
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1540.06
Bay is a really good hitter.

However, while I would say Bay, I have heard enough about Greene and heard enough worthwhile opinions (I can't trust SportsCenter highlights) to say I can support that guy. Plus he hit 15 dingers with a home park that murdered Ryan Klesko as you said, so that has to mean something. He's going to be a ballplayer for a long time. I think he'll end up being superior to Bay by a good bit.
Whitebacon
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#15 Posted on 5.10.04 1535.25
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1540.48
It was 26 homers in an injury shortened season. He missed the first month or so due to shoulder surgery, and missed games off and on for another month or so while he was still working back into game shape. Personally, I like Khalil Greene in this race better than Bay. His defense is already among the best in the league at shortstop, and he improved his offense seemingly every month of the season. Wins for relievers are funny things, if they blow a lead and the team scores in their next AB and regains the lead, the reliever that blew it is usually in line for the win, even though they didn't necessarily pitch effectively. I swear at least four of Otsuka's wins came at the expense of Adam Eaton. That being said, Otsuka was tremendous this year, but not worthy of runner-up status in ROY balloting.
estragand
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#16 Posted on 5.10.04 1825.29
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1826.55
I'm a huge Pirates fan, so I'm obviously biased towards Bay. Bay's decent in the field. He made some sensational catches in June (can't remember the exact date, but it was when the Bucs were wearing their 1979 throwbacks). As soon as he came back, he was a regular in the lineup. Lloyd McClendon likes to switch his lineup on a daily basis-- the fact that he included Bay fairly often was a sign of confidence. So there's more to Bay's season than just the overall numbers.

Khalil Greene had the advantage of playing with producers Ryan Klesko, Brian Giles, Mark Loretta and Phil Nevin. Bay, on the other hand, has produced in a lineup with guys like Craig ("3 swings") Wilson, Randal Simon, Chris Stynes and Tike Redman. In that regard, Bay has been more vital to the Pirates' lineup than Greene was to the Padres'. Take away Bay and you've got Jason Kendall, Jack Wilson and the Nashville Sounds. Craig Wilson has decent numbers from afar...but after watching a good portion of Pirates games this year, it was was frustrating how the guy couldn't produce in clutch situations. I dig Rob Mackowiak, but he was just...average. Daryle Ward was red hot at times, but had more sub-zero days.

The Pirates' announcers brought up a good point last week. If not for Bay, folks might have been talking about Jose Castillo's decent season at second base. He wouldn't have been a ROY contender, but it would've been noteworthy.
Whitebacon
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#17 Posted on 5.10.04 1852.33
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1858.21
Calling Ryan Klesko v.2004 a run producer is funny.
eviljonhunt81
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#18 Posted on 5.10.04 2127.24
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2129.01
    Originally posted by ScottChrist
      Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
      Last season, Pujols was denied because the Giants went to the Playoffs and the Cardinals didn't. This season, Pujols is denied because the Cardinals go to the Playoffs and the Giants don't?


    My God, he's "denied" because Bonds is a player and a half better than him. Both years.


PLZ post the stats that show this, thnx!

And then take defense into account.
estragand
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#19 Posted on 5.10.04 2241.09
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2244.06
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
    Calling Ryan Klesko v.2004 a run producer is funny.

Sure... that's a stretch. I know he had health problems and all. I look at it like this: if I'm a pitcher and I see Giles, Klesko (when healthy), Loretta and Nevin, I'm more stressed about who I let on base. As opposed to a lineup with Kendall, C. Wilson, Simon and Stynes.

Of course, living in Denver and all.. the only time I see Klesko is when he's playing the Rockies at Coors. And he usually kills them. Thus my overblown fanfare for the guy.

Main point was: take Bay out of the Pirates lineup and you've got doodly. Take Greene out of the Padres lineup and you've still got a decent lineup. It's ROY, not Most VALUABLE Player..but I think Bay's value to the Bucs has to count for something.

(edited by estragand on 5.10.04 2043)
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#20 Posted on 6.10.04 0006.47
Reposted on: 6.10.11 0006.53
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    PLZ post the stats that show this, thnx!

    And then take defense into account.


Bonds:
147 games, 373 ABs, 129 R, 135 H, 27 2B, 3 3B, 45 HR, 101 RBI, 232 BB, 41K, .362 BA, .609 OBP, .812 Slug, 1.422 OPS

Pujols:
154 games, 592 ABs, 133 R 196 H, 51 2B, 2 3B, 46 HR, 123 RBI, 84 BB, 52 K, .331 BA, .415 OBP, .657 Slug, 1.072 OPS

So, in seven more games and 219 more ABs, Pujols has a clear lead in two categories -- 24 more doubles and 61 more hits. That's pretty good. However. Look at the on-base, slugging and OPS numbers. Bonds has a LUDICROUS lead.

Consider this, as well (taken from Jayson Stark's Year in Review column at ESPN.com): Bonds is the first player EVER to have an on-base percentage over .600. And, if you take away every single one of Bonds' hits, he'd still have an on-base percentage of .391.
The Giants finished second in the league in runs scored, behind the Cardinals. While the Cardinals had Pujols, Edmonds and Rolen all year and Larry Walker for a good chunk of it, the Giants had Bonds and a bunch of palookas.

Bonds is the most dominating offensive player any of us have ever seen, period. That's why he's the MVP again. Put Pujols on the Giants in place of Bonds, and they probably finish third at best. Put Bonds on the Cardinals with either Rolen or Edmonds hitting behind him, and God knows what kind of numbers he'd put up.

Now, for defense. Apples and oranges, but Pujols, at first, had 10 errors in 1,515 total chances and a fielding percentage of .993. Bonds had four errors in 218 total chances and a fielding percentage of .982. But making Pujols the MVP over Bonds because he's a better fielder is a bit like saying that Ashton Kutcher is a better actor than Tom Hanks because Kutcher has better hair.
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