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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Another proud moment from France's Past...
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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 5.10.04 0827.38
Reposted on: 5.10.11 0827.52
Why complain about Guantanomo when the French have this in their past.
    Originally posted by Jon Henley in the 10/4/04 Guardian
    The government of Charles de Gaulle held hundreds of foreigners, including at least three Britons, in an internment camp near Toulouse for up to four years after the second world war, according to secret documents.

    The papers, part of a cache of 12,000 photocopied illegally by an Austrian-born Jew, reveal the extent to which French officials collaborated with their fleeing Nazi occupiers even as their country was being liberated. They also show that, when the war was over, France went to extraordinary lengths to hide as much evidence of that collaboration as possible.

    The documents are in a mass of registers, telegrams and manifests which Kurt Werner Schaechter, an 84-year-old retired businessman, copied from the Toulouse office of France's national archives in 1991. They are uniquely precious: under a 1979 law most of France's wartime archives are sealed for between 60 and 150 years after they were written.

    "This is an untold story of the dark side of France's liberation 60 years ago," Mr Schaechter, a former musical instruments salesman, said at his home in Alfortville, a Paris suburb. "French functionaries were involved in a national scandal that continued until 1949: the despicable treatment of allied and neutral civilians interned during the war."

    Mr Schaechter's activities - last year he used some of the papers to try to force the French railway SNCF to admit its responsibility in shipping 76,000 Jews to Nazi death camps - have infuriated some French historians, who say their privileged access to classified archives has been compromised. But others have backed the campaign for freer access to documents relating to a part of France's past that it has long preferred to ignore.

    By far the most awkward of his recently unearthed documents are those that appear to show that No camp, 25 miles south of Toulouse, continued to function secretly for several years after the war. No was one of 300 camps set up after 1939 to hold Jews, communists and other "anti-French" militants, Gypsies, common criminals and enemy aliens.

    Many of its inmates were quickly shipped out as France was progressively liberated in the summer of 1944. But, said Mr Schaechter, not everyone could be got out in time: "Allied bombing of the railway lines, and intensified fighting on the ground, meant many simply could not be moved."

    Officially, the only camps still open after 1945 were a handful housing Romanies, stateless persons and French collaborators. But Mr Schaechter says his documents indicate that a "special section" of No was active until at least 1947.
Yikes....
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fuelinjected
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#2 Posted on 5.10.04 0832.01
Reposted on: 5.10.11 0834.41
"Why complain about Guantanomo when the French have this in their past."

Using that logic, there are few things the US could ever complain about.
The Goon
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#3 Posted on 5.10.04 0901.45
Reposted on: 5.10.11 0903.45
I'm not sure what the point is. Are both camps acceptable? Is Guantanamo Bay okay because of the earlier French camp?

It strikes me that both are blights on the history of the human race.
JayJayDean
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#4 Posted on 5.10.04 1001.11
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1001.54
    Originally posted by The Goon
    I'm not sure what the point is.


France SUCKS.
Malarky
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#5 Posted on 5.10.04 1005.36
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1007.01
Where did this whole "hate France" movement spring up from anyways? It seems like there are so many people out there who are so easily manipulated by those on high that they'd hate just about anyone/anything if they were told to. Fascists.
OlFuzzyBastard
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#6 Posted on 5.10.04 1007.55
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1008.55
    Originally posted by Malarky
    Where did this whole "hate France" movement spring up from anyways? It seems like there are so many people out there who are so easily manipulated by those on high that they'd hate just about anyone/anything if they were told to. Fascists.


To be fair, a quick check of the archives would indicate that Grimis had an irrational, and some would say borderline psychotic, hatred of France well before the "freedom fries" bullshit of last spring. He was ahead of the curve on that one. :)
Grimis
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#7 Posted on 5.10.04 1011.11
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1011.51
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    To be fair, a quick check of the archives would indicate that Grimis had an irrational, and some would say borderline psychotic, hatred of France well before the "freedom fries" bullshit of last spring. He was ahead of the curve on that one. :)
It's not irrational. I've BEEN to France. That's enough... :)
Malarky
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#8 Posted on 5.10.04 1128.09
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1129.02
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      To be fair, a quick check of the archives would indicate that Grimis had an irrational, and some would say borderline psychotic, hatred of France well before the "freedom fries" bullshit of last spring. He was ahead of the curve on that one. :)
    It's not irrational. I've BEEN to France. That's enough... :)



-LoL-

I'm not gonna touch that one.....

Are the women over there as great as we think, or is that a cliche?
Grimis
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#9 Posted on 5.10.04 1134.33
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1136.04
A huge cliche...
Malarky
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#10 Posted on 5.10.04 1138.36
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1139.34
That is hugely disappointing. I guess Amsterdam will just have to do.....I wonder if they'll let me take my bong through airport security?

:D
LionJeetSingh
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#11 Posted on 5.10.04 1208.49
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1209.38
France has managed to piss off Americans and Muslims at the same time but it still doesn't mean one should resort to borderline racist behaviour towards anything French.

(edited by LionJeetSingh on 5.10.04 1009)
CRZ
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#12 Posted on 5.10.04 1226.05
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1226.10
    Originally posted by Malarky

    Originally posted by Grimis

    Originally posted by Malarky

    Originally posted by Grimis

Can you two *please* take your one-liners to email or private messages? You're cluttering my forum again.
eviljonhunt81
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#13 Posted on 5.10.04 1414.03
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1414.13
This de Gaulle guy sounds like a horrible person. I will make sure to vote for his opponent in the next election.
messenoir
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#14 Posted on 5.10.04 1908.43
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1909.31
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      To be fair, a quick check of the archives would indicate that Grimis had an irrational, and some would say borderline psychotic, hatred of France well before the "freedom fries" bullshit of last spring. He was ahead of the curve on that one. :)
    It's not irrational. I've BEEN to France. That's enough... :)


I grew up in France, and consider it a wonderful country, albeit flawed like any other place, including here.

Do you actually have specific examples of what makes France WORSE then other countries, that would make you consistently want to insult them?

For the record, any criticism you'll level at Chirac is probably deserved. But that wouldn't look good for Bush, because Chirac has much the same ideologies as Bush.
StaggerLee
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#15 Posted on 5.10.04 2110.48
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2113.09
    Originally posted by Malarky
    Are the women over there as great as we think, or is that a cliche?


I dont think I have ever heard that French women were "great".

Anyhow, the reason that I personally hate France, besides how the general population treated my when I was there, would be their status as surrender monkeys in any conflict that doesnt include a Greenpeace boat.
AWArulz
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#16 Posted on 5.10.04 2212.15
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2214.18
    Originally posted by messenoir
    Do you actually have specific examples of what makes France WORSE then other countries, that would make you consistently want to insult them?


Well, yeah.

They seem unwilling to help anyone except themselves and demand that others help them. Selfish.

Cabdrivers there are rude and expect tourists to speak their little language. Korean and Russian Cabdrivers may not speak much english, but they try like hell to understand you and they know phrases. French ones act like you're a freaking barbarian.

Their women often smell badly, unless they have been liberally coated with fine french perfume. This is possibly because a fair number of them don't know what a razor is.

They aren't a grateful people. If it wasn't for the Brits and for us, They'd all be speaking German there. But we ask them a favor now and then and they mostly refuse. My vote, then next time all the Germans decide to visit Paris with their guns is to stay home for good for once.

Plus, I hate wine. But that's a personal thing. I also hate their whine. And love homonyms.
messenoir
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#17 Posted on 5.10.04 2223.40
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2225.15
I don't know, it just seems like people who've either never been to France, or just been to Paris that have the kind of complaints you have, AWA, because I've almost never seen these kind of things happening outside of Paris. And the NY cabdrivers aren't any cup of tea.

As concerns women not shaving, who cares? I've never had much of a problem with smelling, and most of my family actually bathes twice a day.

Also, the French saved the Americans in the Revolutionary War, so it's not like there's been this one sided thing going on here.

Beyond that, and having lived in both countries, it pretty much seems to me two prideful countries and people who should have a lot in common but instead spend the time coming up with childish insults about each other.

Also, I'm pretty much a country boy, and farmers in both countries are the exact same. Hard workers who love to talk over a drink at the end of the day. Small town France is just such a great life, and I love the culture and people and markets. Same thing pretty much holds true for small town US.

Again, it seems if we could get past childish insults and pride, a lot more good would come.
fuelinjected
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#18 Posted on 5.10.04 2238.04
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2240.36
Messenoir has a great point. I only visited Paris when I went to France and I didn't really like it because people weren't too fond of my infrequently used Canadian Francais. However, after talking to people who have visited other parts of France, they say its beautiful, the people are very friendly, and its a great place to visit.

It would be like judging all of England by only going to London or all of United States by only going to New York or Los Angeles. It's really not fair.

Also, from my experiences of travelling the world, Americans in general need to take some personal introspection as to why their experiences are usually much different then those of the majority of Canadian tourists in Europe and Asia.
oldschoolhero
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#19 Posted on 6.10.04 0324.36
Reposted on: 6.10.11 0325.08
"Cabdrivers there are rude and expect tourists to speak their little language. Korean and Russian Cabdrivers may not speak much english, but they try like hell to understand you and they know phrases. French ones act like you're a freaking barbarian."

Oh man I call full-on bullshit on this one. I've been to France a number of times over the past few years, and almost everywhere you go they-along with the rest of continental Europe, it seems-bend over bckwards to have English available as a second language. Their shops, their restaurants, their public transport...France and Europe are the most English-speaking non-English places I've ever been to.

"Their women often smell badly, unless they have been liberally coated with fine french perfume. This is possibly because a fair number of them don't know what a razor is."

This is just silly. It's the equivalent of saying "American women are either morbidly obese or terrifyingly thin".
AWArulz
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#20 Posted on 6.10.04 0451.26
Reposted on: 6.10.11 0452.47
    Originally posted by messenoir
    have the kind of complaints you have, AWA, the French saved the Americans in the Revolutionary War, so it's not like there's been this one sided thing going on here.


In actuality, ther than the part about the gratefulness, I was just spouting jingoistic crap that you hear for effect. A little trolling, to be honest. Everytime I have been in France it has been in the far north or forays in from Begium and they have been nice enough, although my French is slight at best and I found few english speakers. But that is to be expected. The rest was just a little BS and for that, I apologize. As a rule, I don't smell women I am not married not and I am not starting with any forign women.

I think it's fun that several of the posters focused on that aspect of my post tho....

But to the grateful nation and cooperation, yes, the French helped us during the Revolution. Because they were enemies with England.

They also made an attempt to break our large country up by supporting the confederacy during the Cvil war.

Ancient history.

We fought to save France (and the rest of Europe) from the Germans in a couple of Wars. We took over for France in Vietnam. We supported them when their deocracy was shakey at best.

But - fly over them to drop a few bombs on Gadaffi? No. Support us in the UN on a bunch of issues? No. Participate in this current colilition (even though they HAD voted to enforce the sanctions against Iraq a number of times).
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