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The 7 - Baseball - Cubs Choke complete!
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AWArulz
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#1 Posted on 2.10.04 1816.52
Reposted on: 2.10.11 1817.27
What an unbelievable last week of the season for the Cubs. I know they are chokers and i know Sammy Sosa is having his worst season in 10 years, but this was the worst since '69. The 'Stros and Giants were giving it to them and they laid down like the Brooklyn Brawler.

Depressing. Patterson needs to learn how not to strike out so much as a lead-off hitter. Some small ball would be helpful Dusty. He's let this team get away from him, I think.

Dusty, when you came in you told Sammy where to be and ran the team - this year, the team ran you. I can't believe you didn't make the playoffs with this team.

go Red Sox!
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Teppan-Yaki
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#2 Posted on 2.10.04 1959.42
Reposted on: 2.10.11 1959.43
I think what added insult to injury was the whole debacle between Steve Stone and Dusty Baker this week. I think Stone was just as frustrated as the Cubs; and having Alou and Mercker calling up to the booth to complain did not help the cause.

I'm curious to see the end result and the "blockbuster" move that's supposed to happen according to Stone. Whether that's a team move or Stone leaving is left to be revealed.

As a Sox fan, though, there's a small smirk on my face.
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#3 Posted on 2.10.04 2009.25
Reposted on: 2.10.11 2011.12
IMHO this past week was a perfect microcosm of the Cubs entire season. The players failed to perform to their full abilities, they lost key games to weaker teams, and they reacted by blaming the umpires (dailyherald.com) and their own sportscasters (suntimes.com). Now, this is just my opinion, of course, but when a team's manager, general manager, and club president feel the need to hold a meeting with a sportscaster just hours before a must-win game (as the Cubs did Friday) it's a pretty good sign that the team has no clue what its priorities should be. When you add in that the meeting was called because the team's manager and general manager don't think that the sportscaster should should point out on the air when the manager makes a mistake it's obvious that the team considers whining more important than winning.
BOSsportsfan34
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#4 Posted on 2.10.04 2034.24
Reposted on: 2.10.11 2038.58


Speaking of Cubs, think maybe Whitebacon wishes he didn't say this?




(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 2.10.04 2134)
redsoxnation
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#5 Posted on 2.10.04 2143.42
Reposted on: 2.10.11 2145.05
Am I allowed to rip the career never won 15 games in a season pitcher Kerry Wood for giving up home runs to the 8 and 9 hitters for the Braves in a must game? If healthy, Prior will be a great pitcher for at least a decade. However, after 6 years, can we start to consider Kerry Wood a slightly better than average pitcher?
The Cubs and A's this year should go in the pantheon of chokes with the '64 Phillies and the '87 Blue Jays. Before anyone mentions the '78 Red Sox, remember, they won their last 9 games to force a playoff, they didn't roll over like dogs to awful teams like the Mets, Reds, or Mariners (for the A's).
Maybe Dusty should have left Neifi Perez in at shortstop for the stretch run. Cubs seemed to be flying with him in the line-up in mid September. And, of course: Thanks Beautiful.
Whitebacon
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#6 Posted on 3.10.04 0251.34
Reposted on: 3.10.11 0252.05
    Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34


    Speaking of Cubs, think maybe Whitebacon wishes he didn't say this?




    (edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 2.10.04 2134)



I just wish I wasn't wrong.


I think you may be right, RSN. I like to think of him as betters than "slightly better than average" but, I think calling him simply "Good, but not Ace material" fits well. Besides, I'm biased.

The Cubs blew this one on their own. Steve Stone had it right when he said what he said. Good teams step on the throat of the opposition when they have them down. The Cubs didn't do this, hence, they're not a good team. They've played some of the worst baseball I've seen by a contending team. Moises Alou should not be allowed back into Wrigley Field next year wearting a Cub uni, and I wouldn't be opposed to trading Sosa if we could replace adequately replace him in out in right. The man is breaking down at such an increasing rate.
PalpatineW
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#7 Posted on 3.10.04 0257.05
Reposted on: 3.10.11 0257.13
Stunned that the A's pitching screwed the pooch the way it did this year. Zito's ERA this year is a career worst. Mulder was only worse in his rookie year. And Hudson was good, but only for 175 innings.

Not stunned that the Cubs didn't make it. A little disappointed, perhaps. Dusty sucks, though. He's Grady Little with a more outgoing personality.
Whitebacon
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#8 Posted on 3.10.04 0258.02
Reposted on: 3.10.11 0258.02
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Dusty sucks, though. He's Grady Little with a more outgoing personality.


I'm beginning to agree with this sentiment.
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#9 Posted on 3.10.04 0710.01
Reposted on: 3.10.11 0710.52
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Stunned that the A's pitching screwed the pooch the way it did this year. Zito's ERA this year is a career worst. Mulder was only worse in his rookie year. And Hudson was good, but only for 175 innings.
This is just my opinion, of course, but I have to believe that the main reason for the collapse was that Rick Peterson, after spending the prior six years as Oakland's pitching coach, was not there for the A's in 2004. Hopefully the Mets will have the wisdom to keep Peterson as their pitching coach for 2005 regardless of whom they hire as manager.
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
    Steve Stone had it right when he said what he said.
While I don't see enough Cubs broadcasts to evaluate this for myself, I've heard many fans say that Steve Stone is loads better at his job than Dusty Baker and most of the Cubs players are at theirs. After the way Stone's been disparaged by the Cubs players and manager (how can a manager not rip into a player for calling the broadcast booth during a game to whine about the announcing?) I personally would love to see Stone announce that he was leaving the Tribune circus and joining the Ex-Expos broadcast team in Washington D.C.
BOSsportsfan34
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#10 Posted on 3.10.04 0856.44
Reposted on: 3.10.11 0857.01
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
      Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34


      Speaking of Cubs, think maybe Whitebacon wishes he didn't say this?




      (edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 2.10.04 2134)



    I just wish I wasn't wrong.





I know what you mean. As Cubs and Red Sox fans respectively, we should know better than to guarrantee any type of success for our teams before the fact.
Roy.
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#11 Posted on 3.10.04 0905.15
Reposted on: 3.10.11 0905.18
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
    I wouldn't be opposed to trading Sosa if we could replace adequately replace him in out in right. The man is breaking down at such an increasing rate.


And I think the rest of the league knows this. He's just not a good baseball player anymore. And, if he was any kind of a stand up guy, he'd take the blame when he screws up. But he doesn't, and Sammy only seems to care about Sammy. How about running hard in case your home run ball hits the top of the fence?

What a change from the McGwire/Sammy race, when Sammy seemed like a funny guy with a good attitude, and (in my opinion) made the race more fun because Big Mac seemed to be such a lurch.
Iago
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#12 Posted on 3.10.04 1453.43
Reposted on: 3.10.11 1454.57
I had picked Cubs this year for taking the Central, I mean shit Woods and Prior should be Gods. GODS, I tell you. Oh well, I did hope that they could have won a World Series, it would have been cool, even if I am not a fan.

Same goes for the Sox. Though I dunno if I can agree with all the Dusty Baker hate... but I can agree that he is a bit overrated, especially with all the Manager of the Years he's gotten.

Sammy needs to go though, they don't need a bat, they need defense.
BigSteve
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#13 Posted on 3.10.04 1615.01
Reposted on: 3.10.11 1616.56
Well, at least to some small extent the Cubbies can blame this one on season long injury woes. Yeah, they choked, but Oakland choked a million times worse. They had two chances to get in teh playoffs down the stretch, the West and the WC, and the Big Three absolutely GAGGED. I'm, an O's fan first and foremost, but the last few years I've been rooting for the Cubs and the A's as my "playoff teams" so I really hate this.
eviljonhunt81
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#14 Posted on 3.10.04 1954.08
Reposted on: 3.10.11 1956.38
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Am I allowed to rip the career never won 15 games in a season pitcher Kerry Wood for giving up home runs to the 8 and 9 hitters for the Braves in a must game? If healthy, Prior will be a great pitcher for at least a decade. However, after 6 years, can we start to consider Kerry Wood a slightly better than average pitcher?


God, yes. Wood is the most overrated player since, well, the Cubs as a team this season. While he's obviously anything but bad, he is nowhere near the level of, say, Johnson or Clemens, or any other number of starting pitchers active today. I never understood how the Cubs were supposed to be so much better than the Cards this season when their hitting and fielding are much worse, and their pitching only marginally better.
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#15 Posted on 3.10.04 2023.26
Reposted on: 3.10.11 2029.01
I hope that Chip Caray leaving to go broadcast Braves' games in Atlanta isn't the 'blockbuster' that Stoney was talking about; it is odd to see Sosa get in late, though.
CRZ
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#16 Posted on 3.10.04 2104.10
Reposted on: 3.10.11 2106.31
THE{MIA}CUBSFAN WATCH: DAY 3 (thecubsfan.com)
Whitebacon
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#17 Posted on 3.10.04 2152.56
Reposted on: 3.10.11 2153.08
    Originally posted by Teppan-Yaki
    I hope that Chip Caray leaving to go broadcast Braves' games in Atlanta isn't the 'blockbuster' that Stoney was talking about; it is odd to see Sosa get in late, though.


This so completely totally sucks. I understand his reasons, but it still sucks. I hope this also doesn't mean that Stoney's on his way out the door as well.

Chip Caray is the only Cubs PBP guy I've ever really known. We didn't get WGN on my local cable system until 1998, which of course is the year Harry died.

eviljonhunt: The Cubs staff was not "marginally better" than the Cards staff at the beginning of the year. "Exponentially better" would be a better description. Unfortunately, they actually play games, and things changed over the course of the season. The Cards had a much better bullpen, much better defense, and much better offense. They played the game a lot better than the Cubs did, they didn't make as many errors, and even though they didn't need to rely on them, they hit a boatload of homers. Still, I'd take the Cubs starting five over the Cardinals' five any day of the week. Carpenter is out for the divisional series, and he was their ace for the season. Morris and Williams have been hit or miss, and I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on Jason Marquis.
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#18 Posted on 3.10.04 2355.53
Reposted on: 3.10.11 2356.01
I guess I should have said that the starting rotation wound up only being marginally better, which, with the disparity between the rest of the roster on the two teams, isn't enough for the Cubs to hang with the Cards.

All in all, the national sports press gets way too excited over slightly above average pitchers.
thecubsfan
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#19 Posted on 4.10.04 1134.05
Reposted on: 4.10.11 1134.20
bits and pieces

    Originally posted by downtown bookee
    (how can a manager not rip into a player for calling the broadcast booth during a game to whine about the announcing?)


While that's been the story nationally for the tension between the announcers and the ballplayers, that incident was more just the starting point; Kent Mercker was unhappy they were praising Oswalt after a six run day, but he was livid when his phone calling got leaked to the beat reporters, and there was an ugly incident on the team charter.

Mercker's probably gone.


    I personally would love to see Stone announce that he was leaving the Tribune circus and joining the Ex-Expos broadcast team in Washington D.C.


He's already come close to that; he was part of the Las Vegas group, so the idea of moving on probably isn't out of his mind. But he wants to be here, or he wouldn't have sat around for a year, waiting for Joe Carter's contract to expire so he could come back to this gig.

If Mark Grace is going to be the opening day manager of the Diamondbacks (and I believe he will be), there's no one they could replace Stone with in the booth which wouldn't cause a big backlash.

    Originally posted by Roy
    And I think the rest of the league knows this. He's just not a good baseball player anymore.


VORP measures Sammy as the 7th best right fielder in the NL. Which is good, but also sorta league avegerish. If this was a down season and he's got a bounce back in him, he's an overpriced guy who's still very useful. If not, he's still sorta useful - his numbers came back near the end of the season to reasonable #5 hitter status (/253/.332/.517), but he's missing about 15 singles from where he used to be.

Although I'm 80% sure they would've traded him Sunday if they could and someone made him an offer, because everyone sounds megaticked at his walkout, it's gonna be tough to pull something like that off. He's got a one year deal and an $18mil option (which everyone, including Sammy, knows will not be picked up - $4.5 buyout instead), but that option is automatically picked up if he's traded. Which makes it tough, unless the Cubs are willing to eat part of that salary someway.

I could see whichever franchise goes checkbook crazy trying to work something out; Omar Minaya and the Mets trading for him if he'll restructure his deal but get it extended for an additional year or two sounds about right. Probably he's stuck with the Cubs, and it's going to be an unhappy relationship for 2005. (Even if Sammy had been good this year, it would've been the same way - he was always going to want money for what he's done, and they were only going to pay him for what they'd think he'd do. There is no middle.)

    Originally posted by BigSteve
    Well, at least to some small extent the Cubbies can blame this one on season long injury woes.


They were all as healthy as can reasonably expected when they were up in the Wild Card race and their various starting pitchers were pitching as awesome as they had any time all year.. They could've used another off day instead of the twenty game stretch of death, but everyone's beat up and tired by the end of 162 and it's not really accurate to blame it on the injuries. They could've built a buffer earlier on if they had Prior back on track earlier, or if they never needed to have SERGIO start a game, but they still had a pretty good chance despite that in the end.

    Originally posted by eviljonhunt
    While he's obviously anything but bad, he is nowhere near the level of, say, Johnson or Clemens, or any other number of starting pitchers active today.


Wood is totally an above average who's looked at as great because of the 20K game, which happened to be based upon the first use of a pitch he'll never be able to use again. But that's not a new thing for this season.


    I never understood how the Cubs were supposed to be so much better than the Cards this season when their hitting and fielding are much worse, and their pitching only marginally better.


You really had Chris Carpenter going 15-5 with a 3.46 ERA coming into this season?

I mean, what you're saying is completely true, that's the way things finished out, and I'll definitely give you everyone should've been knowing the defense in St. Louis would be better, but I think people figured Lee for a bigger breakout year (and Sosa not sucking) to make the offenses close, and no one figured the Cardinals pitching to be this consistently good over a season - their perceived biggest weakness turning into a strength is a nice little edge.

    Originally posted by Teppan-Yaki
    I hope that Chip Caray leaving to go broadcast Braves' games in Atlanta isn't the 'blockbuster' that Stoney was talking about


They're going to go nuts after a closer this off season. Insane.
spf
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#20 Posted on 4.10.04 1147.31
Reposted on: 4.10.11 1147.51
I would like to ask a major Chicago media personality what he has to say about the Chip Caray issue:

(image removed)


HE GONE!


(edited by spf on 4.10.04 1149)
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