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Malarky
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#101 Posted on 5.10.04 1140.36
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1142.01
Whatever happened to MAD?
Grimis
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#102 Posted on 5.10.04 1156.39
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1157.00
That works still with nation-states. However, rogue states and states that do business with terrorists will not be deterred by it.
PalpatineW
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#103 Posted on 5.10.04 1416.36
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1416.46
Some debate fallout overseas:

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc58.htm

Alexander Kwasniewski is not happy about the Polish snub. Good for him, I say.
Grimis
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#104 Posted on 5.10.04 1428.51
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1429.03
It's a pretty pathetic oversight. Not as bad as Gerald Ford bombing on the Polish issue back in '76, but bad enough....

EDIT: I just realized that this is the first politics thread to hit 100 posts in two years....

(edited by Grimis on 5.10.04 1529)
Malarky
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#105 Posted on 5.10.04 1807.27
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1812.51
    Originally posted by Grimis
    That works still with nation-states. However, rogue states and states that do business with terrorists will not be deterred by it.


Yeah, but isn't the whole justification for SDI that it could deter an attack from the DPRK or Iran? I just don't see terrorists utilizing ICBM's.
rockdotcom_2.0
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#106 Posted on 5.10.04 1827.59
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1829.01
    Originally posted by Grimis
    It's a pretty pathetic oversight. Not as bad as Gerald Ford bombing on the Polish issue back in '76, but bad enough...


Poland sent 54 troops for the initial Iraq invasion. I think youre overstating things. 54 troops are easy to overlook.

Edit: I stand corrected according to this (infoplease.com) Poland sent 200 troops, but ony 60 combat troops. Once again, considering we sent about 242,000 troops, its not a major gaffe to forget them.



(edited by rockdotcom_2.0 on 5.10.04 1944)
StaggerLee
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#107 Posted on 5.10.04 1938.22
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1939.02
Weren't thier combat forces mostly special forces guys? I remember when the war started, they were the ones rooting out Al Queda and Baath party guys left and right.
Grimis
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#108 Posted on 5.10.04 1942.40
Reposted on: 5.10.11 1942.53
    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    Poland sent 54 troops for the initial Iraq invasion. I think youre overstating things. 54 troops are easy to overlook....Poland sent 200 troops, but ony 60 combat troops. Once again, considering we sent about 242,000 troops, its not a major gaffe to forget them.
I think it is a major gaffe when Kerry talks about the diversification of the occupation load amongs the community of nations. If he can't remember who is there now, how would he remember the contributions of nations who he claims to be able to sway if he does become President.
Malarky
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#109 Posted on 5.10.04 2027.55
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2028.12
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
      Poland sent 54 troops for the initial Iraq invasion. I think youre overstating things. 54 troops are easy to overlook....Poland sent 200 troops, but ony 60 combat troops. Once again, considering we sent about 242,000 troops, its not a major gaffe to forget them.
    I think it is a major gaffe when Kerry talks about the diversification of the occupation load amongs the community of nations. If he can't remember who is there now, how would he remember the contributions of nations who he claims to be able to sway if he does become President.



one roomful of guys doesn't contribute a meaningful contribution when securing a nation the size of California with 20 million people. All politics aside, that's not much of a contribution to the mission. They're there for political cover from America's side, and for prestige for the Poles.
StaggerLee
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#110 Posted on 5.10.04 2055.37
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2055.46
So, thier service is somehow less important?
Thats just insulting. So, if they die, its not really a death, becuse there are fewer of them there?
AWArulz
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#111 Posted on 5.10.04 2156.29
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2156.32
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    So, thier service is somehow less important?
    Thats just insulting. So, if they die, its not really a death, becuse there are fewer of them there?


That's the implication, Stagger. In the same way as the death of Iraqis in the defense and security of the country is meaningless in the eyes of the Democratic Candidates.

They often compare the casualities of the 91 Iraq War and this war as being all our casualties. But the amazing Iraqis! They are being attacked on a daily basis for defending their country, but as soon as the smoke clears after a bomb directed at a national defense recruiting station clears, the Iraqis get back in line to defending their country.

But Edwards and Kerry - they completely dismiss their service and sacrifice, in the same way they dismiss the service and sacrifice of other counties, like Poland and others.

OK, admittedly, we have a lot of troops there.

But so do our allies. Our country has 250 Million people, I think the Netherlands was a bit smaller, but they still have what looks like to me a battalion. (by the way, I got these figures at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat_coalition.htm )

Muldovia has 12 guys. I don't even know where the heck Muldovia is, for goodness sake! Bet guys who come from a place we don't even know where it is have to be TOUGH. ("Where you from, Soldier?" "Muldovia" "Haaaahaaaaa" "WHAP!")

Country In Iraq In Theater Total Future
United Kingdom 8,361 3,500 ~12,000 15,000 ~10,500 (?)
Italy 3,085 84 3,169
South Korea 2,800 2,800 ~ 3,600
Poland ~2,400-2500 ~2,400-2500 1,000-1,500
[0 by end of 2005?]
Ukraine 1,576 1,576 ~1,450
Netherlands 1,345 1,345
Romania 700 700
Japan ~550 ~200 ~750
Denmark 496 496
Bulgaria ~485 ~485
El Salvador 380 380
Hungary 300 300
Australia ~ 250 ~ 600 850 + 50
Mongolia 180 180
Georgia 159 159 ~300 or 980(?)
Azerbaijan 151 151
Portugal 128 128
Latvia 122 122
Czech Republic ~110 ~110 10
Lithuania 105 105
Slovakia 105 105
Albania 70 70 200
Estonia 55 55
Tonga ~45 ~45
Singapore 33 33
Kazakhstan 29 29
Macedonia 28 28
Moldova 12 12
Norway 10 10 0
Thailand 0 0 0
Spain 0 0 0
Honduras 0 0 0
Dominican Republic 0 0 0
Nicaragua 0 0 0
Philippines 0 0 0
New Zealand 0 0 0
Armenia 0 50-60
TOTAL ~28,600




(edited by AWArulz on 5.10.04 2257)
CRZ
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#112 Posted on 5.10.04 2217.03
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2217.21
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Muldovia has 12 guys. I don't even know where the heck Muldovia is, for goodness sake! Bet guys who come from a place we don't even know where it is have to be TOUGH. ("Where you from, Soldier?" "Muldovia" "Haaaahaaaaa" "WHAP!")
The Republic of Moldova (moldova.md)is a former Soviet republic, was part of Romania WAY back, and is I believe home to lots of spooky vampires.

See also: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/md.html
AWArulz
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#113 Posted on 5.10.04 2222.15
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2223.30
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by AWArulz
      Muldovia has 12 guys. I don't even know where the heck Muldovia is, for goodness sake! Bet guys who come from a place we don't even know where it is have to be TOUGH. ("Where you from, Soldier?" "Muldovia" "Haaaahaaaaa" "WHAP!")
    The Republic of Moldova (moldova.md)is a former Soviet republic, was part of Romania WAY back, and is I believe home to lots of spooky vampires.

    See also: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/md.html



Awwww, I could have looked it up too, Chris - but tell old AWA the truth... didja know where it was BEFORE ya looked it up? (And I figured it was there in eastern Europe)
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#114 Posted on 5.10.04 2228.09
Reposted on: 5.10.11 2229.01
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Awwww, I could have looked it up too, Chris - but tell old AWA the truth... didja know where it was BEFORE ya looked it up? (And I figured it was there in eastern Europe)
I was in Model UN when all fifteen SSR's became countries, so I kinda HAD to know it. Fortunately, that's just the kind of trivia I love so it wasn't much of a chore.

Now, could I name them all? Hmmm...

Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Estonia
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzia (maybe now Kirgizstan?)
Latvia
Lithuania
Moldova
Russia
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan

Well, that's 14. Not bad!
EDIT: The one I forgot (Ukraine) is one of the biggest ones, of course.

(edited by CRZ on 5.10.04 2231)
Grimis
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#115 Posted on 6.10.04 0615.52
Reposted on: 6.10.11 0616.06
    Originally posted by CRZ
    I was in Model UN when all fifteen SSR's became countries, so I kinda HAD to know it.
Good timing. I got stuck with crap like Mozambique and Denmark...
PalpatineW
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#116 Posted on 6.10.04 0658.28
Reposted on: 6.10.11 0658.28
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by CRZ
      I was in Model UN when all fifteen SSR's became countries, so I kinda HAD to know it.
    Good timing. I got stuck with crap like Mozambique and Denmark...


Please. We represented the Seychelles one year. I still don't know what they are.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/se.html
Grimis
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#117 Posted on 6.10.04 0716.03
Reposted on: 6.10.11 0717.01
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Please. We represented the Seychelles one year. I still don't know what they are
That's pretty bad. Still, when we were Mozambique prostitution was its third leading industry, so we said "Pimpin' Aint Easy" a lot.

Of course, since HMUN was the only two times I have been in Boston, I skipped most of the meetings and trapsed around the city(in February...)
Malarky
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#118 Posted on 7.10.04 1017.47
Reposted on: 7.10.11 1018.49
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    So, thier service is somehow less important?
    Thats just insulting. So, if they die, its not really a death, becuse there are fewer of them there?


Quit presenting false choices. That's not what I said. What I said is that it's easy to overlook the contribution of 50 some people out of a coalition of around 180,000.

Again, the only reason Poland is there is for political cover for the States, and prestige for Poland. It's all politics, and the GOP trying to make hay out of this just goes to show that they have precious little to throw in Kerry's face from the first debate.
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#119 Posted on 7.10.04 1140.05
Reposted on: 7.10.11 1146.04
    Originally posted by Malarky
    What I said is that it's easy to overlook the contribution of 50 some people out of a coalition of around 180,000.


No, what you said was "one roomful of guys doesn't contribute a meaningful contribution when securing a nation the size of California with 20 million people."

So, you said they were not meaningful, so I asked if thier deaths, sacrifices, and contributions, didnt really count.

AS one of the very few who posts here who has been in a combat situation, I can tell you that no matter where you are from, when you are wearing Kevlar vests, helmets, carrying 60 pounds of gear and a weapon, and have things go BOOM around you, everybody who is around you, and is helping out your cause is giving 'meaningful contribution'. Its like saying a Navy Seal team isnt meaningful, because of thier numbers. And, yes, the Polish Special Warfare guys are the ones over there, killing and capturing people on behalf of the coalition.
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#120 Posted on 7.10.04 1213.07
Reposted on: 7.10.11 1213.27
I just want to know if a car door is standard equipment for the Polish army in a desert combat situation.
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