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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - "No Draft" sez Edwards
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Guru Zim
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#21 Posted on 17.9.04 1458.41
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1458.42
1) Any reserve that was called back was collecting a check for being available to be called back. That's not a prelude to a draft, that's someone being asked to do their job. Do you feel the 50 year old reservist should get a check without any responsibilities?

2) Bush can't pass laws without the congress helping him. He can veto laws. There is no guarantee of a blank check for Bush if he wins

3) What is Kerry's actual proposal about Stem Cell research? I know he mentioned "What if we had a president that believed in Science" in his speech at the convention - but what is his stand that you are defending.

Since you are demanding the issues be discussed, why don't you start with your view of them and then back it up, rather than complain about the other posters?
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#22 Posted on 17.9.04 1551.31
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1552.26
    Originally posted by A Fan
    If honestly, believe that the Republicans won't get more conservative or try to re-install the draft if Bush wins, then you are an idoit or blind devote follower. I have heard the stories from the front about shortage of manpower and the complete and total lack of leadership in Iraqi. Hell, they are calling back 50 year old reserves to serve in Iraqi, thats not a prelude to a draft. These people though their time was done, but thanks to Bush and Co., they are on the line again.

    The radical conservative agenda will play out if he wins which means, no steam cell research, more needless wars and more unemployment. There are the fucking issues, will someon on this forum actually talk about them or are we going to get more Republican high school cheerleading and pointing of fingers.


And that may be the only way to stop the ultra right. Let them have the power and see what happens. On a smaller scale it's starting to happen in Kansas. The ultra right social conservatives should take complete control this next year, except for the governor's mansion. Only when they try to implement the extreme positions they are in favor of will most Kansans realize they aren't as conservative as they think. The same would be true if the ultr left took power. Truth and real answers ultimately lie towards the middle where real debate and thought can occur.

And Grimis is correct. Most ultra conservatives I know think "W" is way to liberal.

Guru, I believe the Democrat platform conatins a commitment to stem cell research.

(edited by DrDirt on 17.9.04 1552)
Leroy
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#23 Posted on 17.9.04 1615.04
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1615.09
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    And that may be the only way to stop the ultra right. Let them have the power and see what happens. On a smaller scale it's starting to happen in Kansas. The ultra right social conservatives should take complete control this next year, except for the governor's mansion. Only when they try to implement the extreme positions they are in favor of will most Kansans realize they aren't as conservative as they think. The same would be true if the ultr left took power. Truth and real answers ultimately lie towards the middle where real debate and thought can occur.

    And Grimis is correct. Most ultra conservatives I know think "W" is way to liberal.


Doc...

On one hand, I hope you're right. On the other hand, I think something happens when the ultra-right has power for any significant length of time without serious critique - and it's similar the "Bush is a moderate" line - the entire debate shifts to the right.

Sort of like when someone says "kill them all", then someone else saying "kill most of them" doesn't sound quite so unreasonable. So the debate then becomes "kill most of them", when really, it should be "why kill anyone"... (bad example given all that's going on, but you get the idea).

If I were you, I might not be so worried about the ultra-right taking power in Kansas, as much as I would folks really being critical of the discourse taking place. Otherwise, they win by merely shifting the debate....


(edited by Leroy on 17.9.04 1420)
OlFuzzyBastard
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#24 Posted on 17.9.04 1703.48
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1704.10
What are you talking about, since 2002, the Republicans have controlled the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives, the Supreme Court and the majority of the Governerships. We've let them have the power, bad situations have gotten worse, and there's still no accountability.
Leroy
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#25 Posted on 17.9.04 1720.06
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1721.55
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    We've let them have the power, bad situations have gotten worse, and there's still no accountability.


I'm not so sure that's true. It's just the people holding Bush accountable have no political power.

There's been serious mobilizations around the country against the war. The RNC protests were about the largest protests in recent history. Granted, the "liberal" media has done an excellent job of dismissing most of it - but nevertheless, they did happen.

Something that makes me feel a little better - a friend of mine from Alabama went home to visit, and said he was surprised at how many folks were very disenchanted with Bush. Even THEY see the mess that's he's made of things. A scientific poll it isn't, but still....

But if you're talking about the Democrats holding Bush accountable, then you're right. But that's their own damn fault... and they're the only alternative we have.

We'll see in November, I guess.
DrDirt
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#26 Posted on 17.9.04 1840.54
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1841.48
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    What are you talking about, since 2002, the Republicans have controlled the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives, the Supreme Court and the majority of the Governerships. We've let them have the power, bad situations have gotten worse, and there's still no accountability.


Party yes, conservatives no. Their majorities are such that they can't just go do what they want.

Leroy, I understand your concern but unlike say Gemany in the 1930's (and I am NOT comparing anyone in the US to the Nazis), people in this country seem to say enough when things get to the point you refer to. Personally, I don't think this will happen for one simple reason, the country is extremely polarized and the split is IMO, 25% each conservative and liberal (as defined today) and 50% moderate.
PalpatineW
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#27 Posted on 17.9.04 2045.16
Reposted on: 17.9.11 2045.25
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      What are you talking about, since 2002, the Republicans have controlled the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives, the Supreme Court and the majority of the Governerships. We've let them have the power, bad situations have gotten worse, and there's still no accountability.


    Party yes, conservatives no. Their majorities are such that they can't just go do what they want.

    Leroy, I understand your concern but unlike say Gemany in the 1930's (and I am NOT comparing anyone in the US to the Nazis), people in this country seem to say enough when things get to the point you refer to. Personally, I don't think this will happen for one simple reason, the country is extremely polarized and the split is IMO, 25% each conservative and liberal (as defined today) and 50% moderate.


Seriously. It's 51-49 in the senate. Bush is as conservative as Clinton was liberal; he picks a few issues a la carte.

I know a few of you think the world is gonna end of Bush gets another term, but I think the country has survived worse.
Phantom Lord
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#28 Posted on 21.9.04 0455.59
Reposted on: 21.9.11 0456.06
There is only one reason I have doubts about voting for Bush in the election and it's the draft.

We will most likely be going to war with Syria and Iran in the coming year and there is a whole laundry list of reasons why we should, but when you look at Iraq and see how that's being handled and realize the same thing will happen in those countries you can't help but be worried.

I'll be 24 in November. My brother just turned 18. Me personally I'm not worried about being draft because I know they would never take me since I'm not medically fit for service.

But my brother on the other hand...he's what you call front line material and that does worry me.

I want to believe a draft isn't going to happen, but when you read reports that Selective Service is getting it's funding raised you can't help but wonder.

Personally we can cut the need for more troops in half if we would just move them out of countries that don't need them.

If we put the troops we have in Bosnia and half the troops we have in South Korea into Iraq then the need for a draft and reserveist's will be drastically reduced.

But god forbid an attack bigger then 9/11 happens (and odds are it will sometime in the next year), the draft will be put in place faster then you can think of running for the border.
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