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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - "No Draft" sez Edwards
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It's False
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#1 Posted on 15.9.04 1935.41
Reposted on: 15.9.11 1936.54
If there was ever any reason to vote for Kerry, this would be it:

Edwards: No Military Draft if Dems Win (story.news.yahoo.com)

    Originally posted by above article
    During a question-and-answer session, the mother of a 23-year-old who recently graduated from West Virginia University asked Edwards whether the draft would be reinstated.

    "There will be no draft when John Kerry is president," Edwards said, a statement that drew a standing ovation.


If there's any topic that'll get the young voters out there, it'll be this one. Can Bush make the same promise?


(edited by It's False on 15.9.04 1736)
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OMEGA
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#2 Posted on 15.9.04 1955.16
Reposted on: 15.9.11 1956.32
I think Bush has stated that he wouldn't reinstate the draft.

Quick question: Was Bush ever really for the draft? I seem to remember hearing that he wanted it reinstated, but don't know of any hard facts.
CRZ
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#3 Posted on 15.9.04 2002.25
Reposted on: 15.9.11 2003.21
    Originally posted by It's False
    Can Bush make the same promise?
Google: "bush reinstate draft site:whitehouse.gov" (google.com)

Here's the first one:




    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040810-15.html

    Q I understand that the Democratic leadership in Congress wants to reinstate the draft that will include women with no exception. What is your position --

    THE PRESIDENT: No, I don't think so. I haven't heard that, to be fair to the Democrat leadership. Maybe they have. I don't think I've heard it. John hasn't, either. No, we're not going -- we don't need the draft. Look, the all-volunteer Army is working. The all-volunteer Army -- (applause.) I really don't think, in all fairness, I haven't heard that. Maybe you have. I have not heard any leader in the Congress of either party advocating a draft. I beg your pardon. John said a couple of the guys in the House have. They will -- I know Senator McCain and I agree on this issue for certain, the all-volunteer Army works.


That was a month ago. Good enough?

(edited by CRZ on 15.9.04 2006)
rockdotcom_2.0
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#4 Posted on 15.9.04 2005.06
Reposted on: 15.9.11 2005.31
There will never be a draft. Short of WW3 breaking out, it just will not happen. They would ask (or order) veterans like me back in before they started drafting people if the forces got too critically low. And trust me, no one in the Military wants the discipline problems and headaches that would come with a bunch of draftees. The draft nearly destroyed the Military in the 60s and 70s especially the Army, and no one wants that again.
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#5 Posted on 15.9.04 2040.40
Reposted on: 15.9.11 2042.00
    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    There will never be a draft. Short of WW3 breaking out, it just will not happen. They would ask (or order) veterans like me back in before they started drafting people if the forces got too critically low. And trust me, no one in the Military wants the discipline problems and headaches that would come with a bunch of draftees. The draft nearly destroyed the Military in the 60s and 70s especially the Army, and no one wants that again.



I tend to agree. I was a volunteer in the Army immediately after the draft ended. Morale was absolutely terrible, there was a lot of alcoholism and drug use and a lot of "shamming' by everyone, officers included. We had plenty of officers who went to ROTC or even The Point to avoid the draft, hoping the 'Nam would go away before they had to go - which it did - but then they had to do their 5 years, and they didn't like it any more than I liked it. (I was doing 3 for the GI Bill).

So, yeah, I would be against it. I talked to one of the recruiters here back in the spring and he said he was way over quota, and so was everyone in his office. So I don't know what the other folks are doing if recruiting is down. I know we have about 100,000 more people on active duty today than we did on 9/11, and that takes a heck of a lot of training and logistics, which is why so many reservists are still active.

It's False
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#6 Posted on 15.9.04 2104.09
Reposted on: 15.9.11 2105.04
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by It's False
      Can Bush make the same promise?
    Google: "bush reinstate draft site:whitehouse.gov" (google.com)

    Here's the first one:




      http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040810-15.html

      Q I understand that the Democratic leadership in Congress wants to reinstate the draft that will include women with no exception. What is your position --

      THE PRESIDENT: No, I don't think so. I haven't heard that, to be fair to the Democrat leadership. Maybe they have. I don't think I've heard it. John hasn't, either. No, we're not going -- we don't need the draft. Look, the all-volunteer Army is working. The all-volunteer Army -- (applause.) I really don't think, in all fairness, I haven't heard that. Maybe you have. I have not heard any leader in the Congress of either party advocating a draft. I beg your pardon. John said a couple of the guys in the House have. They will -- I know Senator McCain and I agree on this issue for certain, the all-volunteer Army works.


    That was a month ago. Good enough?

    (edited by CRZ on 15.9.04 2006)


Very good. It's easy to get paranoid these days with our troops getting stretched to Iraq and a very real possibility of future battles with Iran, Syria, or Sudan, so that comes as some peace of mind.
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#7 Posted on 16.9.04 0654.55
Reposted on: 16.9.11 0654.58
There are a multitude of good reasons not to have a draft. That's why the only people who propose it are anti-war people who are trying to make a statement.
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#8 Posted on 16.9.04 0755.03
Reposted on: 16.9.11 0757.06
That's the same as saying "if we're elected, we won't overturn Roe v. Wade or take away black people's right to vote."

Is scare-mongering the last bastion of the doomed, or is the desperation just beginning?
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#9 Posted on 16.9.04 0915.26
Reposted on: 16.9.11 0915.29
    Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
    That's the same as saying "if we're elected, we won't overturn Roe v. Wade or take away black people's right to vote."

    Is scare-mongering the last bastion of the doomed, or is the desperation just beginning?


It's not really scare-mongering when you're answering a direct question from an audience member, as John Edwards was.

As for Roe v. Wade, you realize that the last time a measure to overthrow it got to the Supreme Court, the measure was upheld by a slim 5-4 margin. Now, if any Justices retire (or die) in the next four years, the President gets to appoint the replacement and, while Congress does have to ratify them, do you really think that Bush would appoint someone pro-choice?

And as for the black people's right to vote, you're right. Nothing funny happened in Florida in 2000. Thousands of innocent black names weren't swept from the eligible voter lists due to erroneous felony charges. That's just crazy.
Barbwire Mike
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#10 Posted on 16.9.04 0925.41
Reposted on: 16.9.11 0925.41
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    It's not really scare-mongering when you're answering a direct question from an audience member, as John Edwards was.

Which couldn't possibly be a plant there to elicit a response he wanted to make. That never happens.
policus
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#11 Posted on 16.9.04 1051.05
Reposted on: 16.9.11 1051.59
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by It's False
      Can Bush make the same promise?
    Google: "bush reinstate draft site:whitehouse.gov" (google.com)

    Here's the first one:




      http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040810-15.html

      Q I understand that the Democratic leadership in Congress wants to reinstate the draft that will include women with no exception. What is your position --

      THE PRESIDENT: No, I don't think so. I haven't heard that, to be fair to the Democrat leadership. Maybe they have. I don't think I've heard it. John hasn't, either. No, we're not going -- we don't need the draft. Look, the all-volunteer Army is working. The all-volunteer Army -- (applause.) I really don't think, in all fairness, I haven't heard that. Maybe you have. I have not heard any leader in the Congress of either party advocating a draft. I beg your pardon. John said a couple of the guys in the House have. They will -- I know Senator McCain and I agree on this issue for certain, the all-volunteer Army works.


    That was a month ago. Good enough?

    (edited by CRZ on 15.9.04 2006)


I want to preface my remarks saying I'm a Bush supporter, but this quote needs a little background. The question was way out of context. There's a movement in the military and congress to update the draft. The basic plan is that the draft will be used in the future to draft non-combat related specialist. The two most common professions mentioned are doctors and technology experts. Basically, if the military feels it lacks a certain non-combat skill set it wants to be able to draft that skill set.

There were no female doctors in M*A*S*H and people want the rules to change so there can be.
Dahak
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#12 Posted on 16.9.04 2136.07
Reposted on: 16.9.11 2136.26
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
      That's the same as saying "if we're elected, we won't overturn Roe v. Wade or take away black people's right to vote."

      Is scare-mongering the last bastion of the doomed, or is the desperation just beginning?


    It's not really scare-mongering when you're answering a direct question from an audience member, as John Edwards was.

    As for Roe v. Wade, you realize that the last time a measure to overthrow it got to the Supreme Court, the measure was upheld by a slim 5-4 margin. Now, if any Justices retire (or die) in the next four years, the President gets to appoint the replacement and, while Congress does have to ratify them, do you really think that Bush would appoint someone pro-choice?

    And as for the black people's right to vote, you're right. Nothing funny happened in Florida in 2000. Thousands of innocent black names weren't swept from the eligible voter lists due to erroneous felony charges. That's just crazy.


You are right OFB there weren't thousands of blacks swept off the voter roles. Or at least there hasn't been one single case brought out. Or could you list a link were an eligible black voter wasn't allowed to vote?
This is what is going to hurt the Kerry campaign. The Dems just can't quit complaining about Florida.
OlFuzzyBastard
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#13 Posted on 17.9.04 0728.19
Reposted on: 17.9.11 0729.02
    Originally posted by Dahak
      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
        Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
        That's the same as saying "if we're elected, we won't overturn Roe v. Wade or take away black people's right to vote."

        Is scare-mongering the last bastion of the doomed, or is the desperation just beginning?


      It's not really scare-mongering when you're answering a direct question from an audience member, as John Edwards was.

      As for Roe v. Wade, you realize that the last time a measure to overthrow it got to the Supreme Court, the measure was upheld by a slim 5-4 margin. Now, if any Justices retire (or die) in the next four years, the President gets to appoint the replacement and, while Congress does have to ratify them, do you really think that Bush would appoint someone pro-choice?

      And as for the black people's right to vote, you're right. Nothing funny happened in Florida in 2000. Thousands of innocent black names weren't swept from the eligible voter lists due to erroneous felony charges. That's just crazy.


    You are right OFB there weren't thousands of blacks swept off the voter roles. Or at least there hasn't been one single case brought out. Or could you list a link were an eligible black voter wasn't allowed to vote?
    This is what is going to hurt the Kerry campaign. The Dems just can't quit complaining about Florida.


You could start here. Or here. Or here. Or here. Or here. Or, well, you get the point.

The real shame is that we've allowed these problems to get completely swept under the rug - the complete and total bastardization of the most fundimental tenant of our democracy is "not important anymore" - that virtually nothing has been done in the past four years to remedy the problem. (And the measures that have been taken actually make the system even worse.)
Grimis
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#14 Posted on 17.9.04 0820.34
Reposted on: 17.9.11 0821.02
That I agree with...

However, the truth of the matter is that shit does in fact happen, voter fraud happens in every election(usually to benefit Democrats) and that this is the best system we got.

Oh: if your guy won his home state last time, you wouldn't be talking about this...
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#15 Posted on 17.9.04 1252.49
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1253.13
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    You could start here. Or here. Or here. Or here. Or here. Or, well, you get the point.


Well, they tried to do it again for this election - but more or less got derailed. And it took a lawsuit and the resignation of Florida's Elections Chief to end this madness...

Florida scraps felon vote list


(edited by Leroy on 17.9.04 1103)
Grimis
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#16 Posted on 17.9.04 1257.19
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1258.11
    Originally posted by Leroy
    Well, they tried to do it again for this election - but more or less got derailed. And it took a lawsuit and the resignation of Florida's Elections Chief to end this madness...

    Florida scraps felon vote list

I love how the Democrats support felons voting because it happens to fit a demographic profile in votes that they need.

Some of us call that "moral bankruptcy" but who am I to judge...
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#17 Posted on 17.9.04 1314.06
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1314.07
    Originally posted by Grimis
    I love how the Democrats support felons voting because it happens to fit a demographic profile in votes that they need.

    Some of us call that "moral bankruptcy" but who am I to judge...


"Moral bankruptcy" is not allowing people to vote for NOTHING MORE than political gain.
Grimis
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#18 Posted on 17.9.04 1333.37
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1333.38
    Originally posted by Leroy
    Moral bankruptcy" is not allowing people to vote for NOTHING MORE than political gain.
Actually, my feeling is that it has more to do with the fact that a criminal knowingly gives up certain rights when they decided to commit a felony. Voting is one of those rights.
A Fan
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#19 Posted on 17.9.04 1431.43
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1431.51
If honestly, believe that the Republicans won't get more conservative or try to re-install the draft if Bush wins, then you are an idoit or blind devote follower. I have heard the stories from the front about shortage of manpower and the complete and total lack of leadership in Iraqi. Hell, they are calling back 50 year old reserves to serve in Iraqi, thats not a prelude to a draft. These people though their time was done, but thanks to Bush and Co., they are on the line again.

The radical conservative agenda will play out if he wins which means, no steam cell research, more needless wars and more unemployment. There are the fucking issues, will someon on this forum actually talk about them or are we going to get more Republican high school cheerleading and pointing of fingers.
Grimis
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#20 Posted on 17.9.04 1447.50
Reposted on: 17.9.11 1448.27
    Originally posted by A Fan
    The radical conservative agenda will play out if he wins which means, no steam cell research, more needless wars and more unemployment. There are the fucking issues, will someon on this forum actually talk about them or are we going to get more Republican high school cheerleading and pointing of fingers.
What the fuck are you talking about? All of the hardcore conservatives here talk about about how Bush is too much of a moderate and you want to paint him up to be a fascist.

Lay off of the Kool-Aid...
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