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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - WWE Unforgiven 2004
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The Vile1
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#1 Posted on 12.9.04 2218.41
Reposted on: 12.9.11 2220.32
Doesn't look like there's a thread for this up yet. I managed to watch this tonight at a friend's house, and it was a decent show, but still not great. I don't understand what it is that the WWE cannot just put together a great PPV worthy of 35 dollars anymore. Anyone know what it is?

Geez, Chris Benoit goes to main eventing Summerslam to curtain jerking on PPV in less than a span of a month. Still a good, entertaining opening tag team match which ended with the faces, Benoit in particular, going over strongly. This is much how the opening 6 man at Summerslam last month should've ended. Good match, right guys won.

Victoria and Trish preceded to have a decent match, probably also one of the longest women's matches on PPV I can think of in recent memory. Trish pulls off the victory and then we get...

Tyson Tomko vs. the Mystery Woman in an impromptu match...and guess what...the mystery woman was STEVIE RICHARDS! Even though everyone and their mother already knew that and the fans would always chant "STEVIE" when he came out. A god awful match that seemed to last forever and meticulously killed the crowd dead. A fucking horrible, stupid, and meaningless match that Tomko won. Fire Tomko or send him back to the minors already.

A very good ladder match with Jericho and Christian, and Jericho wins his 7th IC title I suppose. This match had a lot of dead spots though, and I think both men have been in better ladder matches, and themselves one-on-one. Their cage match and wrestlemania matches were better IMHO. Wasn't really able to top the IC title ladder match from Rumble '01 either.

Shawn Michaels has a suprisingly great NO DQ match with Kane, and as always KANE LOSES! BECAUSE KANE IS A JOBBER! Still a good match, and a good re-debut for Michaels, but if he has another world title feud with HHH so help me...

La Resistance finally put their tag titles up against Rhyno and Tajiri in the semi-main event. This match's placement on the card puzzles me, and it should've been somewhere else b/c it seemed most of the crowd was taking a break before the main event. A decent match, but the wrong guys won. I'd like to see this feud continue, and hopefully see "Team ECW" pick up the belts.

Well they finally did it, after 6 months, HHH has finally regained the World Heavweight title, making him a 9 time world champion, tying with the likes of Sting. A good match, average main event, with a crappy finish. So I guess now Orton has to rally to get the world title back at Wrestlemania next year? But why have him win the title at Summerslam just to have him lose it in a month? Stupidity I say. I wonder where WWE is going to go with this, but whatever.

Anyone else care to comment on Unforgiven?
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Shem the Penman
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#2 Posted on 12.9.04 2228.13
Reposted on: 12.9.11 2229.01
Worst Raw PPV of the year. I'd still put it ahead of the GAB on the strength of Jericho/Christian, which was good, and the women's and Michaels/Kane matches, which were passable. But there was nothing at all on the card that I'm going to remember a month from now.

Case in point: Benoit/Regal vs. Batista/Flair match. It's been only three and a half hours, and I've almost completely forgotten everything that happened.

Tomko/Richards was just a bad joke. Was it me, or was Stevie channeling Eugene with that "hit my head and I get madder" bit?

I really don't get the booking of the tag title match. The angle has been going on for an eternity in modern terms, and this would seem to be the perfect place to blow off the feud and give the faces a win. But then, I'm just the guy watching this stuff. Now what? Do they drag the feud out for another two months, until Survivor Series, or break up Tajiri and Rhyno?

The main event was a total disappointment. I honestly think Orton and Trips could have done a pretty snappy twenty-minute match if they put their hearts into it, but instead we got a bloated, punchy-kicky, by-the-numbers main event. Everyone hits their usual spots? Check. Lots of body part work that doesn't go anywhere? Check. Ref bump? Check. Run-ins? Check. Blood? Check. Speaking of which, how did Trips get busted open when he hit the turnbuckle with his -chest-?

The Vile1
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#3 Posted on 12.9.04 2233.06
Reposted on: 12.9.11 2234.44
I think the idea was that HHH's head hit the ring-post.

And I'm going to say it right now, Randy Orton is not ready to be main eventing. Tonight proves it.
jjfc
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#4 Posted on 12.9.04 2237.27
Reposted on: 12.9.11 2239.04
I no longer hate HHH. I'm just bored by him.
chill
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#5 Posted on 12.9.04 2244.59
Reposted on: 12.9.11 2247.09
I was watching it for free and left at the end of Trish-Victoria, knowing that I likely wasn't going to miss anything great the rest of the show. I'd rather see HHH as the champ than Orton. Something's really f'd up with Orton's current "face" run. I don't even buy it as a heel or a tweener. It's just messed up.
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#6 Posted on 12.9.04 2255.53
Reposted on: 12.9.11 2256.51
Net Hack Slasher?

It's time to spin that motherfucker up to red.

Aside from Wrestlemania X-8, I can't remember a time when I have been more completely disgusted with the end of a PPV than this one. And they started off so well with the strong Benoit win (to my surprise) and the right booking decision in the IC title match...
PerthHeat
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#7 Posted on 12.9.04 2259.33
Reposted on: 12.9.11 2259.42
    Originally posted by The Vile1
    I don't understand what it is that the WWE cannot just put together a great PPV worthy of 35 dollars anymore.

    Well they finally did it, after 6 months, HHH has finally regained the World Heavweight title, making him a 9 time world champion, tying with the likes of Sting. A good match, average main event, with a crappy finish. So I guess now Orton has to rally to get the world title back at Wrestlemania next year? But why have him win the title at Summerslam just to have him lose it in a month? Stupidity I say. I wonder where WWE is going to go with this, but whatever.

    Anyone else care to comment on Unforgiven?


I didnt order this for the reason I was sitting there trying to work out why I should and I couldnt come up with anything that I NEEDED to see .. seems to me injury and poor build up made this a tweener ..I couldnt decide whether to bother or not so I didnt.

By all reports I didnt miss much.

Its my feeling the WWE made Orton champ to give him the title of ''worlds youngest WWE champ'' and then decide to see if he could be a face. I feel the WWE have realised it is easier to turn a heel to a face by giving him something to chase ..especially if he is chasing HHH. This gives Orton time to build support without the hate his title run exposed. I feel this feud will go until WM21 with the WWE testing the reaction to an Orton face turn.

Will it now be HHH v Michaels.. I hope not I thought we left the 90s behind.
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#8 Posted on 12.9.04 2322.14
Reposted on: 12.9.11 2326.41
The only good thing that can come of YET ANOTHER DAMN Michaels vs. Triple H match is if they make it a 'loser leaves RAW' bout and we end up with HBK on Smackdown.
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#9 Posted on 13.9.04 0035.16
Reposted on: 13.9.11 0035.59
    Originally posted by jjfc
    I no longer hate HHH. I'm just bored by him.


Which is a million times worse.
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#10 Posted on 13.9.04 0052.37
Reposted on: 13.9.11 0052.40
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    The only good thing that can come of YET ANOTHER DAMN Michaels vs. Triple H match is if they make it a 'loser leaves RAW' bout and we end up with HBK on Smackdown.


Well, I think they've tried nearly every match in the WWE gimmick list that might draw some attention if any, so I guess the only thing left to do there will be to make the next match an "I Quit" match, with the 'loser leaves RAW' stip.

Hey, might as well try *something* new, I... guess?
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#11 Posted on 13.9.04 0730.32
Reposted on: 13.9.11 0730.44
Earlier this year, I started skipping Smackdown! only PPVs, after having not missed any PPVs in some 3+ years.

I damn near skipped this one until my buddy insisted we try the theatre atmosphere instead.

After 2 excrutiatingly long hours and $14 wasted, we walked out of the theatre pre-main event. I never did get to see Hunter win his belt back, and to be honest I don't really care either. There is nothing remotely interesting about the idea of Orton vs. Triple H to me, and I can only hope they DON'T run it as the main event of Wrestlemania.

Terrible, horrendous card. Tomko vs. Richards was quite possibly the worst match I've ever seen, and that's REALLY saying something.
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#12 Posted on 13.9.04 0930.40
Reposted on: 13.9.11 0931.25
I think the problem is the fact the show is focused around HHH, way too much. There is no room for real eveluation on the show or of anything of interest to happen. I was going to order the replay, but after talking to my friends I decided not to do it. Raw has the best mid-card out of the two shows, so I don't know how they can turn out sub-par shows.

They have a huge section of talent and its being waisted on terrible writing and the idea that if they do go hardcore everyone will be injuried. I just got the Eddie DVD and man did he and RVD have some great matches. I think they need to go back to the attitude era and start doing some crazy matches and have some fun. Raw is way too serious, I miss the Foley era and the early Austin days where anything could happen. Now, it feels like its paint by numbers. Putting the belt on HHH and then maybe Orton will chase if he gets fan support is not going to get them out of this route. I don't think even Austin, Foley or Rock coming back full time will help. They need to scrap the current game plan, do some trades and start letting the wrestlers wrestle.
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#13 Posted on 13.9.04 0937.48
Reposted on: 13.9.11 0937.53
I didn't buy this one. And from what I've read, I'm damn glad I didn't, for a couple of reasons. Summerslam was some what of a disappointment, Nothing even slightly intrigued me other than CLB/Y2J, and Orton/HHH somewhat.

Now we have HHH back as world champ, which means he'll hold on to it for God only knows how long, and other than Edge/Y2J/Christian, nothing right now interests me.

And the time to do all of this shit...when the NFL kicks off it's season...they need to do something, and do it fast.

Oliver
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#14 Posted on 13.9.04 1025.31
Reposted on: 13.9.11 1026.08
What I don't get is how the critics and the WWE consider Orton's reign and face turn were both failures. They gave us, what? A month? That's barely enough time. If anything, there wasn't anyone NEW to challenge for the title...and one month doesn't really do anything. I wish they would have given him two or three months to see what he can do.

I feel very fortunate that I had to go to work last night. Looks like I didn't miss much of a card.

Here's looking forward to No Mercy. Hold on...Taker vs. JBL? Never mind.
sentonBOMB
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#15 Posted on 13.9.04 1033.52
Reposted on: 13.9.11 1034.21
On the bright side, I ordered the PPV via webcast, and got 5 CLASSIC WCW MATCHES for free, including Insane Clown Posse and Vampiro vs. Rey Mysterio Jr., Kidman, and Eddy Guerrero! It almost made it worth 35 bucks. ALMOST.
OMEGA
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#16 Posted on 13.9.04 1052.18
Reposted on: 13.9.11 1052.57
    Originally posted by sentonBOMB
    On the bright side, I ordered the PPV via webcast, and got 5 CLASSIC WCW MATCHES for free, including Insane Clown Posse and Vampiro vs. Rey Mysterio Jr., Kidman, and Eddy Guerrero! It almost made it worth 35 bucks. ALMOST.


Well, I guess that makes storyline sense, considering that Kidman damn near killed Vampiro with the SSP in that match. However, the real 35 bucks should go to that AWESOME Eddie/Jericho match from Fall Brawl 1997. Aside from Brock/Angle Iron-Man, that is my all time favorite match that I have seen live.

As far as last night's PPV goes, I'd say it was the very definition of average. Nothing REAL great, but nothing real horrible either... Well, aside from that Tomko/Richards debacle, but I'll let that slide.

While I'm dissapointed that the 6 month reign of Hunter NOT having that damn belt has ended, at least they didn't bury Randy in the mean-time. They really did a good job of keeping Orton strong, letting him kick out of the pedigree (who does he think he is? Shawn Michaels?), have him fight off all of Evolution, and then have him only get beat because all of Evolution interfered, and even then they struggled.

Jericho/Christian had the match of the night. Not the greatest ladder match of all time or anything, but still damn good, and the two worked real hard. But, man, was that Jericho bump nasty or what? He just JAMMED his ass into the corner of the ladder. He was in obvious pain, and looked real pale in his post-match interview.

Benoit/Regal v. Flair/Batista was a fine match, but felt more like a ten o'clock RAW match than a PPV match.

They're breaking up Christian and Stratus? This makes me sad. I just hope they don't turn either face, because they are both just awesome in their heel roles. Seriously, when Trish first turned heel, I didn't like it. However, she's really done a good job getting into character, and I think she's definitley one of the best actors in the promotion. Of course, she's usually doing acting jobs with Lita, who makes Linda McMahon look like... um, a good actress.

Michaels/Kane was good, but nothing special. But, my god, is Michaels over or what?

Tajiri/Rhyno v. La Resistance was fun, but was put in the death spot. Suprised La Resistance won, as they've been building up Rhyno & Tajiri for a few months now.

Overall, not a bad show, but nothing that I'll remember by the time Taboo Tuesday roles around.
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#17 Posted on 13.9.04 1055.22
Reposted on: 13.9.11 1055.31
    Originally posted by OMEGA
      Originally posted by sentonBOMB
      On the bright side, I ordered the PPV via webcast, and got 5 CLASSIC WCW MATCHES for free, including Insane Clown Posse and Vampiro vs. Rey Mysterio Jr., Kidman, and Eddy Guerrero! It almost made it worth 35 bucks. ALMOST.


    Well, I guess that makes storyline sense, considering that Kidman damn near killed Vampiro with the SSP in that match. However, the real 35 bucks should go to that AWESOME Eddie/Jericho match from Fall Brawl 1997. Aside from Brock/Angle Iron-Man, that is my all time favorite match that I have seen live.


Speaking of storyline sense, however, I'm surprised that WWE is showing matches like the one I mentioned, in which Rey is working sans mask. I'd think they'd be reluctant to show Rey wrestling without his mask, in that the mask is an essential part of his WWE character.
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#18 Posted on 13.9.04 1104.14
Reposted on: 13.9.11 1104.32
"They have a huge section of talent and its being waisted on terrible writing and the idea that if they do go hardcore everyone will be injuried. I just got the Eddie DVD and man did he and RVD have some great matches. I think they need to go back to the attitude era and start doing some crazy matches and have some fun."

That period of wrestling is gone, and that is by no means a bad thing. Trying to outswerve the audience and continually upping the ante are not the things needed to fix the mess the fed find themselves in now-if anything they need to stop being so trigger-happy with their booking and actually plan some long-term stories and feuds out. Look at Kidman and London on SmackDown. They win the tag titles, they begins a feud with the Dudleys, that feud is dropped, Kidman accidentally injures Chavo and the writers think "Hey! We'll just use that instead of writing something ourselves!" Christ, how hard would it have been to keep that tag title feud with the Duds boiling over til No Mercy, when they could've done a ladder match with the whole "can they overcome the bullies" angle?

Too hard, apparently. The fed's current writing staff have no sense of character and angle development; unless something is spelt out for them, they just write whatever they feel like for a three week block then start all over again.

As for Unforgiven, it was a good show for what it was, with four ***+ matches, and I really dug Michaels Vs. Kane. But good Lord does something need to happen to the booking soon.
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#19 Posted on 13.9.04 1120.29
Reposted on: 13.9.11 1121.50
Yet another WWE PPV that effectively erases any progress made in the last year.

It's not so much that HHH won the belt back, but that they just couldn't wait to do it. What was the problem with letting Orton hold the belt until at least Survivor Series or even the Royal Rumble? I don't think there was any real dramatic need for HHH to get the belt back this soon.

Benoit curtain-jerking was a curious move, too.
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#20 Posted on 13.9.04 1137.03
Reposted on: 13.9.11 1139.35
    Originally posted by SKOLAZOID
    Benoit curtain-jerking was a curious move, too


Really, the 2nd or 3rd slot or immediately after an intermission (which are usually more likely to be the nacho match slots than an opener would be) you'd think is more of an insult than leading off. That's more the slot that they're depending on the people involved to get the crowd into it right away, and that's not an insult. In fact, it's a compliment.


(edited by Blanket Jackson on 13.9.04 1237)
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