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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - The Midnight Ride of John Kerry
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PalpatineW
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#1 Posted on 2.9.04 2126.16
Reposted on: 2.9.11 2127.03
Hasn't happened yet, but he's leaked his speech, or parts of it.

    Originally posted by John Kerry
    We all saw the anger and distortion of the Republican Convention. For the past week, they attacked my patriotism and my fitness to serve as Commander-in-chief. Well, heres my answer. Im not going to have my commitment to defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have and by those who have misled the nation into Iraq.

    The Vice President even called me unfit for office last night. I'm guess I'll leave it up to the voters whether five deferments makes someone more qualified to defend this nation than two tours of combat duty.


Really pisses me off. No one has questioned his patriotism. Delegates repeatedly cheered as speakers saluted his Vietnam service. This is ridiculous. Not only the constant "look at me" bragging, but the way he makes his Vietnam service a defense for everything. This really, really cheapens the entire notion of military service. The Republicans have said, this week, "Kerry served honorably. Let's talk voting record." And all Kerry can do is go back to Vietnam. Ridiculous. Next time you ask why we can't move past this, look no further than Kerry himself for the answer, because he is still talking about his "two tours of duty."

And since when is military service a requirement to be president? The left loves separation of church and state; what about civlian control of the military? I don't remember Kerry singing that tune when Clinton ran. And Clinton friggin' left the country.

Edit: here is the text of Cheney's remarks. Click, press control-f in your browser (or apple-F!), and look for the word "unfit." It isn't there.

    Originally posted by Dick Cheney
    The President's opponent is an experienced senator. He speaks often of his service in Vietnam, and we honor him for it.


Edit II: And now it's over.

    Originally posted by John Kerry
    ...the Red Sox pulled within 2.5 games of the Yankees!


I wish it were so, John, but, sadly it isn't.

(edited by PalpatineW on 3.9.04 0044)
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The Thrill
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#2 Posted on 3.9.04 0756.25
Reposted on: 3.9.11 0756.25
    Originally posted by PalpatineW


      Originally posted by John Kerry
      ...the Red Sox pulled within 2.5 games of the Yankees!


    I wish it were so, John, but, sadly it isn't.




Hell, you shoulda been here in Titletown the last time Kerry the Patriots Fan was here, when he referred to the Packers' stadium as "Lambert Field."

Ye gods.
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#3 Posted on 3.9.04 0756.41
Reposted on: 3.9.11 0756.52
It's funny that John Kerry can't keep his own record straight, yet insists he knows what other people are saying all of the time.

I got home from a convention party around 12AM EDT and was surprised when I clicked on CSPAN2 to see Kedwards, live from Ohio. How bizarre.
BWT
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#4 Posted on 3.9.04 0813.11
Reposted on: 3.9.11 0813.38
I'm not really a fan of either of the candidates but what ever happened to the un written rule of laying low while the other had his convention? The whole midnight speech from Kerry just reeked of desperation and I for one thought of it as disrespectful. And Grimis they actually have parties based around the convention geze.
The Goon
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#5 Posted on 3.9.04 0831.41
Reposted on: 3.9.11 0832.32
I'm also curious about the party based on the convention. What happens there?

I'm reminded back to my days in youth parliament in university. The line was "go to the Conservative parties for the booze, go to the Liberal parties for the sex."
StaggerLee
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#6 Posted on 3.9.04 0905.08
Reposted on: 3.9.11 0905.31
    Originally posted by The Goon
    I'm also curious about the party based on the convention. What happens there?


Shots everytime the crowd breaks into "FOUR MORE YEARS!" ?

ANd, somebody should tell Kerry that sitting on a boat, off the coast of Viet Nam isnt a combat assignment. He may have been in the area, but he wasnt COMBATTING anything but sea sickness.
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#7 Posted on 3.9.04 1612.48
Reposted on: 3.9.11 1612.57
    Originally posted by StaggerLee

    ANd, somebody should tell Kerry that sitting on a boat, off the coast of Viet Nam isnt a combat assignment. He may have been in the area, but he wasnt COMBATTING anything but sea sickness.


Kerry saw combat in Vietnam. Until the Navy says otherwise, I really question the credibility of any dispute of his service.

As far as Kerry's midnight rally goes, he needs to stop talking about Vietnam LAST MONTH. He can talk about Iraq, he can talk about the issues, the failure to capture Osama Bin Laden, but every time he mentions "Vietnam" and Cheney(??!)'s lack of service in Vietnam, he keeps reminding people of Swift Boat Veterans.

He did come out fighting, and it was good to finally see him do something to counteract the opposition. He needs to keep doing that, and spin a positive message as he does it.
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#8 Posted on 3.9.04 1848.53
Reposted on: 3.9.11 1849.11
Just a small point, if I may. Quoting from PalpatineW and this article (msnbc.msn.com)
    Originally posted by John Kerry
    We all saw the anger and distortion of the Republican Convention, Kerry said.
It will be interesting to see how frequently (and by whom) the word "anger" is used in the media over the next few days to describe the just completed Republican Convention. Political strategists love to throw out attack lines such as this in the hopes that it will have a huge echo [be repeated often]. Of course, the fact that the phrase makes no sense whatsoever (exactly what were the Republicans angry about?) is, for the most part, meaningless. Personally, I don't think this one will have legs; in fact, looking at a more recent article (story.news.yahoo.com) it seems Kerry has dropped "anger" in favor of "bitter." Of course, it's still a meaningless phrase, but since "bitter" is more vague than "anger", and therefore harder to define, it'll be that much more difficult to pin someone down as to what in the hell they're talking about. OK, so we'll keep an eye out for that as well this weekend, seeing which editorials and commentaries use the word "bitter" or its variants to describe the GOP Convention.

Again, this isn't anything earth-shattering, but it is something that I have enjoyed doing through the years, because it helps to identify which commentators can be counted on the quote the party line for a particular candidate, agency or, well, party. Plus, if the phrase proves popular, it could turn into a pretty good drinking game:


"The bitterness that came out of the Republican Convention was incredible."
Drink.
"The Republicans came across as very bitter."
Drink.
"I think the Republicans made a huge mistake by setting such a bitter tone for their convention."
Drink.
"Anyone watching the convention could feel the bitterness coming through the T.V. screens."
Drink.

Well, you get the idea.
RYDER FAKIN
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#9 Posted on 3.9.04 2026.24
Reposted on: 3.9.11 2028.19
SKLOKAZOID: Kerry saw combat in Vietnam. Until the Navy says otherwise, I really question the credibility of any dispute of his service.

As far as Kerry's midnight rally goes, he needs to stop talking about Vietnam LAST MONTH. He can talk about Iraq, he can talk about the issues, the failure to capture Osama Bin Laden, but every time he mentions "Vietnam" and Cheney(??!)'s lack of service in Vietnam, he keeps reminding people of Swift Boat Veterans.

He did come out fighting, and it was good to finally see him do something to counteract the opposition. He needs to keep doing that, and spin a positive message as he does it.


But see...that's what Kerry can't figure out (read:admit) that he is doing wrong. All the talk is Kerry needs someone like Carville to come in and take charge...no shit - he should have done that to begin with

I've been saying since Kerry buried Dean in a sea of "hey that guy is nuts, don't vote for him" (the same thing the Bush campaign said about McCain [which was right]) that, of all things, John Kerry shouldn't be wrapping himself in the flag, crowing about his four months in Vietnam. But he did - and a whole bunch of veterans, who have been waiting 30 years to bust his balls for being a turncoat...hell, it's free speech and they have as much right to hold a grudge as Soros does.

Downtown Bookie: The bitterness that came out of the Republican Convention was incredible."
Drink.
"The Republicans came across as very bitter."
Drink.
"I think the Republicans made a huge mistake by setting such a bitter tone for their convention."
Drink.
"Anyone watching the convention could feel the bitterness coming through the T.V. screens."
Drink.

Well, you get the idea.


I don't need an excuse. Walt himself has let me down

FLEA
Crimedog
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#10 Posted on 4.9.04 0019.36
Reposted on: 4.9.11 0019.56
    Originally posted by BWT
    I'm not really a fan of either of the candidates but what ever happened to the un written rule of laying low while the other had his convention? The whole midnight speech from Kerry just reeked of desperation and I for one thought of it as disrespectful. And Grimis they actually have parties based around the convention geze.


Well, there used to be an unwritten rule. Until John Kerry threw it out the window because he's terrified about the fact that his campaign is falling apart.

I mean, geez, as if the salute wasn't enough, now having been in the military is a requirement to be president? Good thing that rule wasn't around in 1992, or this country would have missed out on a pretty damn good president.

I am not a big fan of George Bush. But Kerry's staggering incompetence in running this campaign and refusal to move on from his Vietnam service _ while at the same time attacking his opponents for "making it an issue" _ make it real hard to vote for him. Apparently he hasn't figured out that Vietnam was THREE WARS AGO and wasn't a real bright spot for the American military.
StaggerLee
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#11 Posted on 4.9.04 0144.20
Reposted on: 4.9.11 0145.42
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    Kerry saw combat in Vietnam. Until the Navy says otherwise, I really question the credibility of any dispute of his service.


He claimed TWO combat tours. He wasnt involved in any COMBAT while stationed on his Destroyer, off the coast of VietNam.

I do not dispute his service on the swift boats, that was legit combat. The other, not so much though.
dMr
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#12 Posted on 4.9.04 0852.55
Reposted on: 4.9.11 0854.49
    Originally posted by Crimedog
      Originally posted by BWT
      I'm not really a fan of either of the candidates but what ever happened to the un written rule of laying low while the other had his convention? The whole midnight speech from Kerry just reeked of desperation and I for one thought of it as disrespectful. And Grimis they actually have parties based around the convention geze.


    Well, there used to be an unwritten rule. Until John Kerry threw it out the window because he's terrified about the fact that his campaign is falling apart.


To be fair, if he didn't do his response now then it was likely to lose a shit load of media coverage due to the approaching hurricane. Wait for that to pass and your into 9/11 commemorations, so it was probably the smart thing politically to do his speech immediately.

Unfortunately for him though, as you alluded to, his speech sucked. I mean, geez would you drop the Vietnam shit already. A quick firm rebuttal at the time of the SwiftVet ads should have been enough to more or less draw a line under that shit and let us ALL move on. I could almost understand it if there weren't areas where the Bush administration could be justifiably and effectively attacked, but damn if he thinks harping back to that for another 2 months is getting him anywhere he's in trouble.
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#13 Posted on 4.9.04 1208.42
Reposted on: 4.9.11 1209.40
    Originally posted by The Goon
    I'm also curious about the party based on the convention. What happens there?

    I'm reminded back to my days in youth parliament in university. The line was "go to the Conservative parties for the booze, go to the Liberal parties for the sex."


I went to one too. The local Pols who were'nt delegates were there, there was some lovely dip and punch and they tried to recruit us for our time and money. Helped a little on both ends. I am going to put up signs in October one saturday
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#14 Posted on 8.9.04 0320.54
Reposted on: 8.9.11 0321.06
I think Kerry needs to be a lot more aggressive, The Bush crew is so good at the smear campaign that you have to fight fire with fire and not lay down and hope people would really research themselves for the facts... Kerry's got to focus of Bush's record of the last 4 years, there's a lot of material there you can use. He has to take things that are high on American's hearts & remind people of Bush and his administrations faults and try to stamp it in people's brains.
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#15 Posted on 8.9.04 0347.39
Reposted on: 8.9.11 0347.45
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    I think Kerry needs to be a lot more aggressive, The Bush crew is so good at the smear campaign that you have to fight fire with fire
After months and months of MoveOn.org, Michael Moore, Bush's national guard record, a Democratic candidate claiming Bush knew in advance about 9/11, and so on and so on, only the Kerry campaign would be dumb enough to think their problems have been caused by Bush not being smeared enough.
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#16 Posted on 8.9.04 1535.52
Reposted on: 8.9.11 1538.25
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    I think Kerry needs to be a lot more aggressive, The Bush crew is so good at the smear campaign that you have to fight fire with fire and not lay down and hope people would really research themselves for the facts... Kerry's got to focus of Bush's record of the last 4 years, there's a lot of material there you can use. He has to take things that are high on American's hearts & remind people of Bush and his administrations faults and try to stamp it in people's brains.


I have to disagree with this 100%. Throughout the entire campaign, Kerry has been focused on the negative. His whole approach has been how bad Bush is, and how we should vote for him because if it. And it isn't working.

If Kerry has a shot in hell of winning, he needs to reverse course on his negative campaign, and start talking specifically about what HE would do as President. With real, actual ideas, instead of just saying what whoever he is talking to wants to hear. And things like "I would have got our allies to come to Iraq with us" doesn't fly, since pretty well anyone who is not an avid Kerry supporter can see that we DID get allies to come with us, and nations like France and Germany were not going to be on board no matter what we did.

Kerry needs to tell people what he would do in office NOW, stick to one story (I mean hell, once he says we will be out of Iraq in 6 months, another time in 4 years - which is it?), and make his agenda better than the alternative. So far, we haven't gotten a hint of that, all we have gotten is "Bush is evil, vote for me." You can't win that way....
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