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Malarky
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#21 Posted on 2.9.04 1442.20
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1443.07
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Sure, it's somewhat of what we expected. Except the Democrats offered nothing as an alternative other than "Bush Bad" "Kerry Good." The Democrats have to do better than that to get people to vote for Kerry, but the Democratic agenda is too far outside of the mainstream to accomplish that for them.

    Instead, they are left with Kerry going down in flames for the next sixty days...


I love how you recycle official GOP-sanctioned talking points into your posts here. If the Democrats are so "out of the mainstream" then what does that make the Republican party?

The GOP have completely neglected to mention their party's views on social issues during their convention, and that's telling. They know that the second Joe Voter actually looks beyond the soundbites and takes a look at what the base of this party stands for, they're screwed.

So instead they bleat on about terrorism to keep the people afraid, because when people are afraid they'll vote for the "daddy" party every time, other things being equal (although the economy and Iraq might swing the balance this election cycle).

And how could I forget the ridiculously un-subtle crucifixes they have affixed to the front of their speakers' podium, in the form of a creative wood panneling motif. Seperation of church and state anyone? But beyond that what bothers me even more is their attempts to own religion. It's disgusting that they feel the need to pander to someone's sense of tribalism to get votes, but in their case their record in office has been so poor that I can hardly fault them, they need something.

Blast away.
PalpatineW
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#22 Posted on 2.9.04 1452.03
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1453.40
    Originally posted by Malarky
    It's disgusting that they feel the need to pander to someone's sense of tribalism to get votes


What are your feelings on the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, etc?

(edited by PalpatineW on 2.9.04 1552)
DrDirt
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#23 Posted on 2.9.04 1455.19
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1456.07
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
      Originally posted by Malarky
      It's disgusting that they feel the need to pander to someone's sense of tribalism to get votes


    What are your feelings on the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, etc?

    (edited by PalpatineW on 2.9.04 1552)


In spite of our "civilized" society there is something deep within us that seeks out those like ourselves. Channelled properly it isn't wrong. Hopefully someday we can move past tribalism but we are a long way off. Maybe the best hope is to make our tribes so huge they are meaningless.
Big Bad
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#24 Posted on 2.9.04 1549.44
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1549.56
    Originally posted by The Goon
    I found Vice-President Cheney to be the most boring, monotone speaker since Al Gore. His speech was a systematic, calm, and complete dismantling of Senator Kerry. Had Kerry been there in person, I would have expected him to run from the room crying.

    I didn't really know who Zell Miller was before this week, but after watching him rage last night, I'm surprised he is a member of the Democratic party. I don't think he was a particularly good person to put in such a prime speaking role.

    If anything has surprised me from the RNC this week, it's how good a speaker Arnold Schwarzanegger is. I expected to be howling through it, but he did an excellent job for the party. He really gave a good accounting of the "American dream", which is the feeling I always had about the USA in the 80s under Reagan.

    Also, the President's daughter Barbara is hot.




I agree with this entire post. I'm not sure who thinks that Cheney and Miller did a good job, since Cheney came off like the villain in It's A Wonderful Life and Miller....well, he came off like the stereotypical guy from Georgia named Zell.

Arnold is a good speaker, though can he get through just one speech without incorporating a pun about one of his movie titles? I did like the Robert Smiegel-voiced version of Arnold on Conan last night: "We can't let Bush just jingle half the way....we must let him Jingle All The Way!"

If this election was being decided on hotness of daughters, the Democrats would be looking at a Mondale-esque thrashing.
OlFuzzyBastard
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#25 Posted on 2.9.04 1552.21
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1552.58
A lot of people seem to find "seemingly borderline retarded" quite attractive, it seems.

EDIT: I mean, I know it's really shitty to attack the kids and I apologize for it, but their speech Tuesday night was the worst convention speech I've ever heard, and I've seen every televised one since 1992.

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 2.9.04 1653)
PalpatineW
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#26 Posted on 2.9.04 1622.06
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1626.25
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    In spite of our "civilized" society there is something deep within us that seeks out those like ourselves. Channelled properly it isn't wrong. Hopefully someday we can move past tribalism but we are a long way off. Maybe the best hope is to make our tribes so huge they are meaningless.


I hear you, DrDirt. That's not what I read in Marlarky's comments, though.

    Originally posted by TheGoon
    I didn't really know who Zell Miller was before this week, but after watching him rage last night, I'm surprised he is a member of the Democratic party.


Where do you come up with this stuff? Al Gore has been raging like a madman in his most recent attempt to return to political relevance. Dean's a pretty angry man, calling the Prez a fascist. I think Wes Clark has some rage buried in there somewhere, in his strange, strange mind.

    Originally posted by BigBad
    Miller....well, he came off like the stereotypical guy from Georgia named Zell.


We don't have that stereotype here in Massachusetts. Is that a Canada thing?
The Goon
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#27 Posted on 2.9.04 1648.00
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1648.28
    Originally posted by PalpatineW

    Originally posted by TheGoon
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I didn't really know who Zell Miller was before this week, but after watching him rage last night, I'm surprised he is a member of the Democratic party.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Where do you come up with this stuff? Al Gore has been raging like a madman in his most recent attempt to return to political relevance. Dean's a pretty angry man, calling the Prez a fascist. I think Wes Clark has some rage buried in there somewhere, in his strange, strange mind.



Sorry Palp-in reading my quote again, I didn't mean it like the Democrats don't have any ragers. What I meant was that it surprised me to hear that Senator Miller is a member of the Democratic Party, as his rages were directed squarely at the Democrats. He certainly sounded like a Republican, one who fit well speaking at that convention.

I had noticed, in fact, that Howard Dean had been seemingly appointed the attack dog for the Democrats in recent weeks. I'm willing to bet he'll be getting more visibility as the Dems recover from the RNC bounce.
Grimis
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#28 Posted on 2.9.04 1652.52
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1655.04
    Originally posted by Malarky
    I love how you recycle official GOP-sanctioned talking points into your posts here. If the Democrats are so "out of the mainstream" then what does that make the Republican party?
Sorry, don't need them.

    Originally posted by Malarky
    The GOP have completely neglected to mention their party's views on social issues during their convention, and that's telling. They know that the second Joe Voter actually looks beyond the soundbites and takes a look at what the base of this party stands for, they're screwed.
As opposed to what, the Democrats?
    Originally posted by Marc Morano/CNS News
    A featured performer at a National Organization for Women rally accused President Bush of having "savagely raped " women "over and over" by allegedly stealing the 2000 presidential election.

    Poet Molly Birnbaum read aloud to a crowd of feminists gathered in New York's Central Park on Wednesday night, as part of a NOW event dubbed "Code Red: Stop the Bush Agenda Rally."

    "Imagine a way to erase that night four years ago when you (President Bush) savagely raped every pandemic woman over and over with each vote you got, a thrust with each state you stole," Birnbaum said from the podium.


    Originally posted by Malarky
    But beyond that what bothers me even more is their attempts to own religion. It's disgusting that they feel the need to pander to someone's sense of tribalism to get votes, but in their case their record in office has been so poor that I can hardly fault them, they need something.
Given the fact that the Democrats gave up on religion a long time ago and are completely trying to phase it out of public life, I wonder why the own the religion angle...
spf
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#29 Posted on 2.9.04 1701.45
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1702.38
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Given the fact that the Democrats gave up on religion a long time ago and are completely trying to phase it out of public life, I wonder why the own the religion angle...

I suppose one man's not wanting to base the laws of the country on the selectively applied tribal standards of a nomadic people 3,000 years ago is another man's giving up on religion. I guess if my choices are a government that doesn't acknowledge God or a government that uses one view of the divine as the source for damn near all of their policies (except those troubling bits about earning wealth and about greed...ignore those) then I'll stand with the athiests.
OlFuzzyBastard
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#30 Posted on 2.9.04 1741.30
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1741.35
Best graphic ever (hope it works):

{ you mean BIGGEST graphic ever - Cripes - CRZ }

(image removed)




Now, you can judge for yourself who's being more negative, but it's pretty clear which side is focusing (much much) more on bashing their opponent.

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 2.9.04 1844)

(edited by CRZ on 2.9.04 2049)

EDIT: Yeah, I know, but otherwise it'd be impossible to read.

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 3.9.04 0735)
PalpatineW
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#31 Posted on 2.9.04 1824.29
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1825.54
The Republicans more or less have to bash Kerry; Kerry has said next to nothing about his agenda, his opinions, etc. I mean, he's for the war, he just wants it waged "sensitively." The hell is that? Kerry has worked very, very hard to avoid media scrutiny, to avoid taking hard positions. The Republicans need to pin him down, and it's a doubly effective strategy since Kerry has more or less refused to stake out his own turf.
fuelinjected
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#32 Posted on 2.9.04 1831.39
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1831.51
Not that whole sensitive thing again.

Kerry's quote: “fight a more effective, more thoughtful, more strategic, more proactive, more sensitive war on terror that reaches out to other nations and brings them to our side and lives up to American values in history.”

Here's a link to Bush, Cheney, Franks, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, and others using the word sensitive in conjunction with the 'War on Terror': http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=139030#2
Tony Stewart
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#33 Posted on 2.9.04 1902.24
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1905.47
I know being a cowboy is Bush's *thing*, but all the cowboy hats all over the arena is just too much for me to handle.
Eddie Famous
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#34 Posted on 2.9.04 1947.17
Reposted on: 2.9.11 1948.50
    Originally posted by spf2119
      Originally posted by Grimis
      Given the fact that the Democrats gave up on religion a long time ago and are completely trying to phase it out of public life, I wonder why the own the religion angle...

    I suppose one man's not wanting to base the laws of the country on the selectively applied tribal standards of a nomadic people 3,000 years ago is another man's giving up on religion. I guess if my choices are a government that doesn't acknowledge God or a government that uses one view of the divine as the source for damn near all of their policies (except those troubling bits about earning wealth and about greed...ignore those) then I'll stand with the athiests.


Actually, the country's laws are based mostly on the standards of a nomadic people about 250 years ago that excluded such groups as women, minorities and non-land owners....
PalpatineW
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#35 Posted on 2.9.04 2020.00
Reposted on: 2.9.11 2023.20
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Not that whole sensitive thing again.

    Kerry's quote: “fight a more effective, more thoughtful, more strategic, more proactive, more sensitive war on terror that reaches out to other nations and brings them to our side and lives up to American values in history.”

    Here's a link to Bush, Cheney, Franks, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, and others using the word sensitive in conjunction with the 'War on Terror': http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=139030#2


What's your point? He did say it. It was part of a list, but he still said it. We're hardly taking things out of context here. Also, that link takes me to the front page.

Also, what is a more "proactive" war on terror? You mean... going after them before they come after us?

    Originally posted by The Simpsons

    Meyer: Excuse me, but "proactive" and "paradigm"? Aren't these just buzzwords that dumb people use to sound important? [backpedaling] Not that I'm accusing you of anything like that.


And how do we bring our allies on board? There are more countries who are with us than against us, after all. This is a canard. It boils down to "France and Russia."

(edited by PalpatineW on 2.9.04 2122)
Malarky
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#36 Posted on 2.9.04 2040.07
Reposted on: 2.9.11 2041.17
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
      Originally posted by Malarky
      It's disgusting that they feel the need to pander to someone's sense of tribalism to get votes


    What are your feelings on the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, etc?

    (edited by PalpatineW on 2.9.04 1552)


I don't see where you're going with that. Do you mean that they are similar in the sense that they represent a special interest group? If you could even CALL religion that, I'm not sure.....
fuelinjected
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#37 Posted on 2.9.04 2044.06
Reposted on: 2.9.11 2044.26
My point is that it's kinda silly to attack Kerry for promising sensitivity in regards to the War when Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Franks, and Ashcroft have all made similar quotes about being more sensitive, less insensitive, showing sensitivity, etc.

I'm not debating anything he said, just that it's silly to take him to task on a word used Bush & company as well. You said what the hell is a war waged sensitively? From the words coming out of the Bush Administration's mouths, its what they set out to fight. So why are you attacking Kerry on it?
Malarky
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#38 Posted on 2.9.04 2048.46
Reposted on: 2.9.11 2048.47
"Sorry, don't need them."-Grimis

Excuse me, but your "the Democrats are out of the mainstream" line is a word-for-word copy of the very same line I was hearing time and time again by at least a dozen talking heads representing the GOP on the cable news shows in the days leading up to the DNC.

The Daily Show even did a piece on it, playing on the mindless nature in which these lines were trotted out over and over whatever the context of the discussion.

Hope that jogs your memory.
PalpatineW
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#39 Posted on 2.9.04 2055.17
Reposted on: 2.9.11 2055.29
Anyone else get a serious "Will Ferrell as Harry Caray" vibe watching Pataki?
AWArulz
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#40 Posted on 2.9.04 2058.49
Reposted on: 2.9.11 2059.00
    Originally posted by The Goon
    What I meant was that it surprised me to hear that Senator Miller is a member of the Democratic Party, as his rages were directed squarely at the Democrats. He certainly sounded like a Republican, one who fit well speaking at that convention.

    I had noticed, in fact, that Howard Dean had been seemingly appointed the attack dog for the Democrats in recent weeks. I'm willing to bet he'll be getting more visibility as the Dems recover from the RNC bounce.


Zell's a more traditional southern democrat, I would say. Not a liberal, even in the traditional way Dr Dirt uses, but a southern Democrat. State's rights, welfare in the right places, keeping the government out, strong military. Think Lyndon Johnson, Russell Long, Robert Byrd (before he went insane), Sam Rayburn, Jim Wright, and governors like Wallace, Maddox, Joe Harris, Lawton Chiles and others. Including a certain governor from Arkansas who was much like that until his accendancy to high office.

He claims that going to washington made him see what the rest of the democrat party was like and he was out to change it from within. Interesting concept, I guess.
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