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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Michael Moore explains RINOs
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Stilton
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#1 Posted on 31.8.04 1155.39
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1155.41
This from Moore's column in USA Today. Some of you might disagree with everything Moore says as a kind of knee-jerk reaction, and I know some people have a kind of intellectual allergy to the man, but in today's column he outlines a particular category of political animal--the RINO--and I think these people could be a big part of the election. In which way? That remains to be seen.

* * * [Just a brief passage] * * *


I asked one man who told me he was a "proud Republican," "Do you think we need strong laws to protect our air and water?"

"Well, sure," he said. "Who doesn't?"

I asked whether women should have equal rights, including the same pay as men.

"Absolutely," he replied.

"Would you discriminate against someone because he or she is gay?"

"Um, no." The pause I get that a lot when I ask this question is usually because the average good-hearted person instantly thinks about a gay family member or friend.

I've often found that if I go down the list of "liberal" issues with people who say they're Republican, they are quite liberal and not in sync with the Republicans who run the country. Most don't want America to be the world's police officer and prefer peace to war. They applaud civil rights, believe all Americans should have health insurance and think assault weapons should be banned. Though they may personally oppose abortion, they usually don't think the government has the right to tell a women what to do with her body.

There's a name for these Republicans: RINOs or Republican In Name Only. They possess a liberal, open mind and don't believe in creating a worse life for anyone else.

* * * [link to entire column below] * * *

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2004-08-30-moore-gopamerica_x.htm

(edited by Stilton on 31.8.04 1256)
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Von Maestro
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#2 Posted on 31.8.04 1206.35
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1210.53
What decade are you living in that you view Republicans as, discriminatory, sexist knuckle-draggers???

Seriously, these questions are ridiculous, & the fact that these "issues" are seen by you & Moore as unique to the Democratic party is idiotic.

Stop posting your Moore-apologist threads/posts as you try to portray him as the rational voice of the Left. Trust me, most on that side of the political aisle do not not want Michael Moore speaking for them...
JoshMann
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#3 Posted on 31.8.04 1225.45
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1226.26
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
    What decade are you living in that you view Republicans as, discriminatory, sexist knuckle-draggers???

    Seriously, these questions are ridiculous, & the fact that these "issues" are seen by you & Moore as unique to the Democratic party is idiotic.


Maybe if the far right didn't control the social agenda, these things would be irrelevant. But it's far more common to see hyper-fundamentalism ans loudest voice in the party than it is to see a more moderate view. Put it this way; they wouldn't be parading out every moderate Republican to the podium in prime time this week if they didn't think they had an image problem on this very thing.

(edited by Blanket Jackson on 31.8.04 1326)
RYDER FAKIN
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#4 Posted on 31.8.04 1235.16
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1235.52
There's a name for these Republicans: RINOs or Republican In Name Only. They possess a liberal, open mind and don't believe in creating a worse life for anyone else.

Which is why they are supporting George Bush and not John Kerry.

and WOW! Moore just discovered that most of America is moderate and think that fringe groups on either side leave a lot to be desired!!!* Looks like he *was* taking notes, because McCain and Rudy said pretty much the same thing.

* which is why you see everything go to the Middle of the Road during election year. That was Clinton's two term strong suit, why Gore lost (forgot who his friends were)and why Kerry will lose (bet right now, if you want).

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 31.8.04 1543)
Von Maestro
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#5 Posted on 31.8.04 1235.40
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1237.05
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    Maybe if the far right didn't control the social agenda, these things would be irrelevant. But it's far more common to see hyper-fundamentalism ans loudest voice in the party than it is to see a more moderate view. Put it this way; they wouldn't be parading out every moderate Republican to the podium in prime time this week if they didn't think they had an image problem on this very thing.


See, now I see the "parading" of moderates as an attempt to appeal to the center, where national elections are won & lost, not as a smoke-screen to the Right's policies of "racism & discrimination".

This perspective that Moore tries to portray of the Liberals having the hold on "equality" is so antiquated & insulting to Republicans, & I can't believe that any rational Democrats view Republicans in the manner that Moore seems to...
Grimis
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#6 Posted on 31.8.04 1236.52
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1237.33
Um, OK. Moore can ask broad, one word questions and get an answer.

That's as simplistic as somebody coming out in a campaign and saying "I'm pro-education." Holy shit Mr. Wizard! I thought you wanted our children to grow up to be Neanderthals striking flint against rocks.

Moore's point is pretty, well, pointless. You could ask similar questions(hell, you could ask the same questions) of Democratic delegates and find a similar disconnect with the agenda-driving apparatchiks.
JoshMann
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#7 Posted on 31.8.04 1246.15
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1247.08
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
      Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      Maybe if the far right didn't control the social agenda, these things would be irrelevant. But it's far more common to see hyper-fundamentalism ans loudest voice in the party than it is to see a more moderate view. Put it this way; they wouldn't be parading out every moderate Republican to the podium in prime time this week if they didn't think they had an image problem on this very thing.


    See, now I see the "parading" of moderates as an attempt to appeal to the center, where national elections are won & lost, not as a smoke-screen to the Right's policies of "racism & discrimination".

    This perspective that Moore tries to portray of the Liberals having the hold on "equality" is so antiquated & insulting to Republicans, & I can't believe that any rational Democrats view Republicans in the manner that Moore seems to...


Of COURSE that's where these things are won or lost...and at least they now realize it, because they lost a ton of support in 1992 for going to the right that far, they lost a bit more in 1996 for making every moderate in their ranks persona non grata if they didn't subscribe to 100% of the Dole-Gingrich agenda, and in 2000 they presented themselves more to the center and lo and behold, look what happened.

Jaguar
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#8 Posted on 31.8.04 1424.42
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1424.48
Most of the registered Democrats I know do consider Republicans as anti-gay, anti-minority, gun-toting Jesus nuts. On Fridays, you can substitute "Jesus nuts" with "Corporate Blood-suckers", but most of them realize that all politicians are corporate blood-suckers. The registered Republicans I know fall into three categories:

1) The Confused Republican. None of their friends are Republican. They don't really agree with the Republican Social Agenda. Their family always voted Republican, and so they're going to vote for Bush while at the same time being very disturbed about it.

2) The Unhappy Republican. Falls into two categories - half of them don't like the Republican Social Agenda and so won't be voting for Bush. They may just not vote at all, as they're not convinced that John Kerry isn't going to ruin the country. The other half are Religious Conservatives who cannot be swayed to abandon the Abortion cause and vote for Kerry. Most of them aren't too happy with the anti-gay stuff or the war in Iraq, but they'll vote Bush anyway.

3) The died in the wool Republican. Liberal is a dirty word. Democrats are pussies. The government takes too much of their money. They'll never vote for anyone who isn't a Republican.

-Jag

A very small minority in group 3 is convinced we won the Vietnam War and up until September 11th that Bill Clinton created 'Osama Bin Laden'.
bash91
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#9 Posted on 31.8.04 1434.30
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1435.04
Jag, all I can say is that you know some seriously weird "republicans" if those are the categories that they fall into when you break it down. I can honestly say that, as a conservative, I know no one who falls into any of those categories. The closest I can think of are those who are sort of category 2 in that they disagree with one or more Bush positions, the increased size of the federal government and immigration spring readily to mind, but are still Bush supporters.

Tim
Grimis
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#10 Posted on 31.8.04 1436.09
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1438.32
Yeah, that is a real bizarre set of categories there that encompasses none of the people I know...
Jaguar
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#11 Posted on 31.8.04 1632.48
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1632.53
Just from the people that I actually know. Well, actually I didn't cover my Uncle the banker. He won't be voting for Bush because he thinks Bush was full of shit on Iraq, but I don't think he'll be voting for Kerry.

I can seriously say that Chapel Hill and Asheville being the such the mix of incoming Northern/Southern people and conservatism/liberalism that I wouldn't be surprised if most of you find these people a bit strange. After all, just 50 miles from me is the birthplace and HQ for the Log Cabin Republicans. They were thrown out of the state Republican convention in NC this year...

And of course with so many universities around, we're just chock full of ivory tower intellectuals. Really makes me wonder which way NC is gonna swing in november.

-Jag

Oh and I know some others who consider themselves "Conservatives" but won't consider themselves a part of the GOP. The Libertarian party isn't very big over here, so they just register as Independents. I like them, because they at least give some thought as to why they're "Conservative".

(edited by Jaguar on 31.8.04 1736)
LionJeetSingh
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#12 Posted on 31.8.04 1635.18
Reposted on: 31.8.11 1635.51
(deleted by CRZ on 31.8.04 1709)
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