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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Cheney: Let States Decide on Gay Marriage Register and log in to post!
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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 25.8.04 0619.12
Reposted on: 25.8.11 0621.41
This is not surprising even if it is unusual for Cheney to break with the administration:
    Originally posted by Richard Simon in the 8/25/04 LA Times/Baltimore Sun
    Vice President Dick Cheney, whose elder daughter is a lesbian, said yesterday that he believed that decisions about same-sex marriages should be left to the states, contending that "freedom means freedom for everyone."

    Despite his personal view, Cheney added, President Bush favors an amendment to the U.S. Constitution banning such marriages. "The president makes policy for the administration," Cheney said.

    His comments came in response to a question during an invitation-only town hall meeting in Davenport, a city both presidential campaigns have focused on in their competition to win Iowa. Cheney's remarks were his first this year on the gay marriage issue while campaigning.....

    ...."Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with," Cheney said yesterday. "With respect to the question of relationships, my general view is that freedom means freedom for everyone. People ... ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to.

    "The question that comes up with respect to the issue of marriage is what kind of official sanction or approval is going to be granted by government. ... Historically, that's been a relationship that has been handled by the states. The states have made that basic fundamental decision in terms of defining what constitutes a marriage."

    Cheney took a similar position in the 2000 campaign, when he said during the vice presidential candidates' debate that "people should be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to enter into."

The conspiracy theorist in my says that this is a coordinated move by the Bush/Cheney team to replace Cheney next week. But I don't buy it for a second.
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Dahak
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#2 Posted on 25.8.04 0749.40
Reposted on: 25.8.11 0750.00
Uhm Grimis I thought that Bush Cheney always wanted the states to decide. The whole Constitutional Ammendment thing was to let individual states make their own rules.
Right now it's not certain whether a gay marriage in Boston, Portland, or SF is legal in say Utah. All states honor the other 49 states marriages and should they be allowed to makes an exception for gay marriage?
DrDirt
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#3 Posted on 25.8.04 0750.50
Reposted on: 25.8.11 0752.08
That is the most Republican thing I have heard out of the White House in ages. And I mean that positively.
Grimis
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#4 Posted on 25.8.04 0803.22
Reposted on: 25.8.11 0803.37
    Originally posted by Dahak
    Uhm Grimis I thought that Bush Cheney always wanted the states to decide. The whole Constitutional Ammendment thing was to let individual states make their own rules.
No, the amendment would make it an issue of "Marriage is between a man and a woman"...
spf
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#5 Posted on 25.8.04 0912.59
Reposted on: 25.8.11 0915.24
The Defense of Marriage Act already allows states to decide whether to accept it. The amendment would say even if a state wanted to allow gay marriage that federal law would supercede it, just like when states want to allow medical marijuana or euthanasia or re-importation of pharmaceuticals.
Pool-Boy
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#6 Posted on 25.8.04 1442.51
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1442.59
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by Dahak
      Uhm Grimis I thought that Bush Cheney always wanted the states to decide. The whole Constitutional Ammendment thing was to let individual states make their own rules.
    No, the amendment would make it an issue of "Marriage is between a man and a woman"...


I thought it was a bit of both. To me, it said that marriage between a man and a woman in one state had to be acknowledged in all states. If one state allowed civil unions between gay couples, it would be up to the individual states to decide if they would recognize them.

I could be wrong, though....
spf
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#7 Posted on 25.8.04 1501.53
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1502.40
The text of the amendment

Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution, nor the Constitution of any State, shall be construed to require that marriage or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon any union other than the union of a man and a woman.

So not only does it clearly state what it defines marriage as, but it also decides to jump into the rights of state courts to make decisions inside that state.
JoshMann
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#8 Posted on 25.8.04 1502.25
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1502.41
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by Dahak
      Uhm Grimis I thought that Bush Cheney always wanted the states to decide. The whole Constitutional Ammendment thing was to let individual states make their own rules.
    No, the amendment would make it an issue of "Marriage is between a man and a woman"...


I still think it's a tactical error to put it on the platform next week like they want to. You don't put something so potentially divisive that it only appeals to the farthest right members of the GOP constituance and who were voting for Bush whether the constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage was on the platform or not on the platform.

SKLOKAZOID
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#9 Posted on 25.8.04 1509.30
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1510.30
Bush, as the Republicans said Kerry was doing, is doing an "extreme makeover" heading into the convention. This week, it's okay for pro-Choice, anti-Amendment Republicans to speak up in a visible forum.

This actually looks good for the Bush/Cheney ticket, because it (ironically) pushes the pro-family rhetoric by showing Cheney's allegiance to his lesbian anti-family daughter.
PalpatineW
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#10 Posted on 25.8.04 1627.37
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1628.45
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    Bush, as the Republicans said Kerry was doing, is doing an "extreme makeover" heading into the convention. This week, it's okay for pro-Choice, anti-Amendment Republicans to speak up in a visible forum.

    This actually looks good for the Bush/Cheney ticket, because it (ironically) pushes the pro-family rhetoric by showing Cheney's allegiance to his lesbian anti-family daughter.


What?

The bloody convention is DOMINATED by pro-choice Republicans. Rudy and Arnold have been speaking up for a long time, and both are pro-choice. There is nothing new about this whatsoever. Rudy was the Republican point man in Boston.

Also, the Amendment failed. It's never had complete Republican support.

And Bush hasn't altered his stance on a damn thing. The point of the Republicans was that Kerry was flopping around, not his pals in the Dem. party. Your point seems to be that Bush is allowing people who disagree with him to speak, and therefore is undergoing an "extreme makeover."

I suspect that you'd find something to complain about if Bush "silenced" the pro-choice wing of the Republican party, as well.

Furthermore, at least the Republican party will allow dissent. Joe Leiberman was the closest the Dems got to that at the convention. Was there a single pro-life speaker there, at all?
rockdotcom_2.0
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#11 Posted on 25.8.04 1643.02
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1643.26
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    <>The bloody convention is DOMINATED by pro-choice Republicans. Rudy and Arnold have been speaking up for a long time, and both are pro-choice.



Rudy and Arnold are speaking in Prime time because they are the Stars of the party right now. Nobody gives a damn about who is pro-choice and who isnt. The GOP, like the Democrats are putting the Big names on the stage during Prime time to get people watching. Thats it, thats the story.

SKLOKAZOID
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#12 Posted on 25.8.04 1726.59
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1728.04
    Originally posted by PalpatineW

    What?

    The bloody convention is DOMINATED by pro-choice Republicans. Rudy and Arnold have been speaking up for a long time, and both are pro-choice. There is nothing new about this whatsoever. Rudy was the Republican point man in Boston.


Relax.

My point was exactly that the Convention is going to be dominated by moderate Republican superstars (and justifiably so, with Rudy and Arnold being key players over the last 4 years), and that this week is the week that they start reaching out to the undecideds by using a the moderates.

But, I guess that's "complaining."

The Republicans ARE changing their image. In the face of the Abu Ghraib scandal, the possible misconception that they are all pro-war militaristic fascists, and all of that stuff is going to go out the window for "compassion" (our enemies will be REALLY impressed by our "compassion"), unity, and hope for freedom. That's what their goal is in the next week: to get that message out.

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Also, the Amendment failed. It's never had complete Republican support.


What?

I never said that it did have complete Republican support.

You seemed to completely remove the meaning of my words here, but my point was that Cheney was pushing the fact that he was pro-family WITH his lesbian daughter, in a move that will appeal to both the "family values" people AND those the "gay marrige" people. It's a great move! I still don't like the guy, but that's what he did.

Furthermore, I didn't see Dick Cheney speaking like this while the Bill was in play. He got in line behind his man. Now, since the RNC is coming up and they need to appeal to moderates, Cheney made this statement to "wake up" independents and get their attention for the convention. It's the timing.

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    The point of the Republicans was that Kerry was flopping around, not his pals in the Dem. party. Your point seems to be that Bush is allowing people who disagree with him to speak, and therefore is undergoing an "extreme makeover."

    I suspect that you'd find something to complain about if Bush "silenced" the pro-choice wing of the Republican party, as well.


The Republicans originally used the "extreme makeover" rhetoric, which is why I used it in quotes, and showed how it applies to them. It still does. The Democrats are the least-unified, most disorganized party that can't even get it together to put out a positive unified message to get rid of Bush (at least, let the media they control get it out).

During the Democratic primaries, Kerry said Edwards wasn't old enough to be President, Dean chastized other candidates for being for the war, and Lieberman was just plain unpopular. It was a mess and Kerry emerged as the candidate.

Then, they pulled an "extreme makeover" at their convention by appearing unified, strong, and "sensitive."

The Republicans, after being uniform in their support for the President (not on ALL ISSUES, but rather supporting him despite disagreements - unlike the Dems), are now doing the opposite by voicing some dissent in the press so they can gain an audience with those they may have turned off.

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Furthermore, at least the Republican party will allow dissent. Joe Leiberman was the closest the Dems got to that at the convention. Was there a single pro-life speaker there, at all?


Because we all know that one's stance on abortion is the only real issue.

There were PLENTY of anti-war speakers at the Democratic National Convention who didn't believe Bush should even "have the authority," as Kerry did. Barack, Gore, and a few others out there have been quite open about their disagreements.

Yeah, there's Kucinich, but I think that has more to do with him holding out until the week before.

In a party that is as loose as the Democratic Party, to say that they suppress dissent is pretty laughable. Only recently have the Democrats been altering their style to appear more organized and unified like the Republican Party does.


    And Bush hasn't altered his stance on a damn thing.


Oh, he has altered his stance on 527s in the last year (and reiterated this week) and admitted that he didn't do enough for signing in a bill he praised highly at the time. He has altered his stance on other things, too.

Atleration is a good thing, and EVERY politican does that. If you don't think Bush has "altered his stance on a damn thing," you're not giving him enough credit.

Being a "flip-flopper", by definition, is what being a politician is all about. It's all in how well you can convince voters that you aren't one.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 25.8.04 1539)
Spaceman Spiff
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#13 Posted on 26.8.04 1655.15
Reposted on: 26.8.11 1656.35
As if on cue, here's what the Republicans are going to run with. So much for any goodwill Cheney may have elicited.

    Originally posted by Philadelphia Inquirer

    GOP platform draft opposes gay civil unions

    By Calvin Woodward

    Associated Press

    NEW YORK - Republicans endorsed an uncompromising position against gay unions yesterday in a manifesto that contrasts with Vice President Cheney's supportive comments about gay rights and the moderate face the party will show at next week's national convention.

    A panel made up largely of conservative delegates approved platform language that calls for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage and opposes legal recognition of any sort for gay civil unions.

    ...

    Gary Bauer, who has campaigned for the marriage amendment and against abortion rights as president of the group American Values, said the platform draft solidified the GOP as the "party of hearth and home."

    ...

    Bauer, for example, said Cheney's comments making clear his opposition to a constitutional ban on gay marriage were "just the sort of thing that discourages and demoralizes voters the administration desperately needs."


Click Here (philly.com)

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 26.8.04 1758)
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