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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Is your mind made up? (Presidential election)
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DrDirt
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#21 Posted on 24.8.04 2101.06
Reposted on: 24.8.11 2101.11
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Let me say this, though. If Kerry should win, then I'll be refering to him as "President Kerry" and give him the respect and honor due his office. And I won't act like a baby if it's close.

    (edited by AWArulz on 24.8.04 2138)


Exactly. No matter who wins they are the President of my country and the leader of the free world. Even as candidates, both Bush and Kerry deserve respect. It's fine to go after the person you dislike or loathe but you can do it without being an ass.

And AWA, I didn't think much of our current President until the months after 9/11 where he performed much, much better than I expected. I was almost convinced I was wrong about him. Then the whole Iraq situation came about and he greatly diminished my respect.
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#22 Posted on 24.8.04 2313.08
Reposted on: 24.8.11 2314.19
And AWA, I didn't think much of our current President until the months after 9/11 where he performed much, much better than I expected. I was almost convinced I was wrong about him. Then the whole Iraq situation came about and he greatly diminished my respect.

I've never understood this. What exactly did he do that was so great? Or perhaps I should phrase it like this - what would any other politician have done differently?

Honestly - he basically talked about how bad the guys were that did this a lot, and how we were going to kick their ass. Quite honestly, I could have done that.
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#23 Posted on 25.8.04 0525.45
Reposted on: 25.8.11 0526.25
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by AWArulz
      Let me say this, though. If Kerry should win, then I'll be refering to him as "President Kerry" and give him the respect and honor due his office. And I won't act like a baby if it's close.

      (edited by AWArulz on 24.8.04 2138)


    Exactly. No matter who wins they are the President of my country and the leader of the free world. Even as candidates, both Bush and Kerry deserve respect. It's fine to go after the person you dislike or loathe but you can do it without being an ass.


It's probably just me, but I don't feel either of them deserve my respect. I wouldn't trust any Democrat or Republican candidate to watch my wallet, much less Kerry or Bush. The only reason I'm going to vote for Kerry is because Bush panders to the religious right and SPENDS SPENDS SPENDS like it's going out of style - two things I absolutely hate.

Again, it's probably just me, but the only good politician is a dead one.

-Jag

Wellstone 04?
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#24 Posted on 25.8.04 1436.47
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1437.16
I, obviously, am voting for Bush. All things being equal, though, I probably wouldn't vote for him. His record on immigration is terrible, and the swelling of the federal government is almost criminal. But, his opponent would be worse, so I have to vote for him.

Of course, this makes me even more angry. The fact that someone I elected is going to do something I don't like, and then basically say "Well, the other guy is worse, so you aren't going to vote for HIM," really annoys me.

So I am voting Democrat in the congressional race.

My Rep is Ken Calvert. Aside from supporting the idiotic "Great Park" issue (really local), which was just retarded, the man does nothing to stregthen the border patrol and the borders itself. Sure, he supports all kinds of bills that SEEM to address the problem, but since those bills are just window dressing with no real teeth, I can't fall for that.

So that means Louis Vandenberg -D gets my vote. He may be a maniacle anti-Bush, anti-Iraq conspiracy theorist, but at least we share one common opinion - traffic on the 91 sucks. He may be worse than Calvert, but maybe if Calvert gets booted out because Republicans won't listen to their base, maybe the rest will get the message too.

I am upset that I don't still live in Aliso Viejo, so I could vote against Chris Cox's sorry ass. That guy is a classic example of someone who does NOTHING but put a happy face on issues.
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#25 Posted on 25.8.04 1445.25
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1446.06
You know who I'm voting for and, as I scroll down the list checking everyone's home state, it looks like I'm only the second person in this thread (after Nag) who's vote actually counts for something! Eat it, suckers! >:)
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#26 Posted on 25.8.04 1452.14
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1452.23
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    You know who I'm voting for and, as I scroll down the list checking everyone's home state, it looks like I'm only the second person in this thread (after Nag) who's vote actually counts for something! Eat it, suckers! >:)


Assuming my vote for Kerry is counted at all, that makes me third.
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#27 Posted on 25.8.04 1523.58
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1524.01
I know that voting for Kerry in North Carolina is kind of a waste, as I'm about 99.99999% sure Bush is gonna' win the state (people just LOVE the guy down here). However, I'll still go out and vote, because I KNOW that if I don't, it'd turn out to be some weird-ass election where Bush wins the state by exactly one vote. And then I'd be kicking myself.
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#28 Posted on 25.8.04 1601.45
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1603.26
W got my vote in 2000 and he will get it again in November - like awarulz, if Kerry does win then I will support him as my president - hell, if I could live through 8 years of the embarassment to the Oval Office that was the Clintons, I can live through 4 years of Kerry & his wife
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#29 Posted on 25.8.04 1709.19
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1709.24
Pool-Boy, I'm just curious, but are there any major things that come to your mind that make Kerry worse than Bush? I don't seem to recall you being much of a religious conservative, and that's really the only kind of conservative Bush is.

-Jag
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#30 Posted on 25.8.04 1725.03
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1726.11
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Pool-Boy, I'm just curious, but are there any major things that come to your mind that make Kerry worse than Bush? I don't seem to recall you being much of a religious conservative, and that's really the only kind of conservative Bush is.

    -Jag


And this is why I'm voting Bush. I don't have any real leaning on financial issues (I just know that I'm poor, but that's my own and no one else's fault). I do know that my social leanings are in tune mostly with the Republicans (or at least the religious wing of the Right), so that ends that.

But like many others, I know that voting for a Republican in New Jersey is like voting for a Democrat in Kansas.
y4j1981
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#31 Posted on 25.8.04 1735.49
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1737.05
I have to say Kerry has my vote. Bush really hasn't done anything for me these past years (I don't mean that he hasn't done anything for ME, but he hasn't done anything to warrant me to reelect him). Plus his whole religious thing kinda throws me off. I feel everyone has their right to chose whatever religion they want but it seems like Bush lets it control his every move.

Although, I will give Bush credit on how he handled 9/11. At first that is.

(edited by y4j1981 on 25.8.04 1836)
PalpatineW
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#32 Posted on 25.8.04 1808.23
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1808.46
    Originally posted by Jaguar
      Originally posted by DrDirt
        Originally posted by AWArulz
        Let me say this, though. If Kerry should win, then I'll be refering to him as "President Kerry" and give him the respect and honor due his office. And I won't act like a baby if it's close.

        (edited by AWArulz on 24.8.04 2138)


      Exactly. No matter who wins they are the President of my country and the leader of the free world. Even as candidates, both Bush and Kerry deserve respect. It's fine to go after the person you dislike or loathe but you can do it without being an ass.


    It's probably just me, but I don't feel either of them deserve my respect. I wouldn't trust any Democrat or Republican candidate to watch my wallet, much less Kerry or Bush. The only reason I'm going to vote for Kerry is because Bush panders to the religious right and SPENDS SPENDS SPENDS like it's going out of style - two things I absolutely hate.

    Again, it's probably just me, but the only good politician is a dead one.

    -Jag

    Wellstone 04?


I'm certainly not going to defend Bush's record on spending (I suspect we agree on it), but you think Kerry will be better? Universal health care isn't going to be cheap.

And, Wellstone? The guy had a rep. as the most liberal politician going. I mean, he seemed like a nice fellow, but I doubt he was very fiscally conervative.
Pool-Boy
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#33 Posted on 25.8.04 1846.10
Reposted on: 25.8.11 1848.58
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Pool-Boy, I'm just curious, but are there any major things that come to your mind that make Kerry worse than Bush? I don't seem to recall you being much of a religious conservative, and that's really the only kind of conservative Bush is.

    -Jag


Well, there are a few things.

I think Bush is spending too much. But there is no indication Kerry will spend less - in fact, the opposite. Many of the things he is proposing involve increasing the budget. Maybe in the end, he isn't proposing that much more spending than Bush, but it is more involved than that. He is campaigning heavily about repealing Bush's tax cut, because it helps only the "wealthy." I just never bought into this notion that it was OK to tax rich people and not everyone else. To me, it makes perfect sense that someone with a much higher income would get a much greater amount of a tax break in terms of dollars. I don't like the scare tactic politics of letting people who make less money (and I am in that group) off the hook by playing up a lazy sense of entitlement. Yes, Bush is spending too much, and there is a deficit. That is bad, but I would rather have a deficit and hold out for a decrease in spending than increase taxes to cover the difference. Kerry won't cut spending, he will raise taxes, and I oppose that. So there you have the lesser of two evils.

Then there is the Illegal Immigration issue. During Reagan, we got an amnesty plan which passed. Part of that deal was that we would tighten our borders so that illegal immigrants would never be a problem again. Well, clearly, that never happened. Bush either fears being called a racist, or is bowing to the Big Business right, or is just Fox's bitch, but he refuses to seal our borders. I am not saying "keep the Mexicans out" - I am for LEGAL immigration, but we need to control out borders. Illegal immigrants are a drain on our economy, services, and resources, which is bad enough, but in a time of War, our open border policy is a big invitation to any terrorist who can get into Mexico to come strolling across. Our acceptance of a Matricular Consular card allows Terrorists to fake Mexican Birth Certificates, and get a form of legal ID without so much as a background check. Add to that the ridiculous proposals which seek to give illegal aliens the gold standard of ID in this country, driver's licenses - you can see why it is a far worse situation than just wanting to keep those illegals out who are "here to work." Bush's answer in this time of war is a guest worker program which would amount to delayed amnesty, and NOTHING to secure the borders and give the Border Patrol more power in the interior. Kerry's answer is IMMEDIATE citizenship, and nothing to secure the borders to end the problem.

Bush is very bad, Kerry is worse.

I am thinking big picture here. I couldn't care less what Kerry or Bush did during Vietnam. The real issues are clear to me, and where they both actually stand on the issues is equally clear. I know what Bush will do, because I have seen it these last 4 years, and I know what Kerry would do just by looking at his voting record. I also know that wild claims that Kerry will magically be able to get Europe involved in Iraq are simply fantasy by using common sense, and actually paying attention to what Europe has to say on the matter.

The campaign to me is pointless. Just a bunch of mudslinging on both sides trying to get something to stick. I don't trust a word Kerry says right now, beyond the "flip flops," because nothing he is saying has anything at all to do with the way the country is actually running right now or in the future. I don't listen to Bush, because nothing he can't tell me anything about Kerry or himself that I don't already know.

So, between the two evils, I pick Bush. I disagree strongly with Kerry, but I think he is right where he needs to be - in the Senate. I LIKE the fact that, for once (with the exception of Mexico), we finally have a president that won't kiss the ass of an ungrateful UN that can't stand us. The fact that he won't jump when they call for him. The fact that he puts what he believes our best interests to be OVER the opinion of the rest of the world. He has made a lot of mistakes, but he is better than the alternative right now.

Which is the #1 reason I have said over and over again that the Democrats picked the wrong guy. If the Democrats had an actual, legit primary season, instead of the dog and pony show that we got, and were serious about putting up a real, strong candidate instead of worrying more about bashing Bush, I really do feel that Kerry would not be at the head of the ticket, and you MIGHT have picked a guy that I would vote for. As it stands - Kerry won't connect with me, and it is against his nature to. I can't trust a guy with this country when he is more worried about a war that happened over 30 years ago, and proclaiming everything Bush does as underhanded and evil than honestly assessing the strengths and weaknesses of this country and proposing to fix what is wrong. To Kerry, EVERYTHING is wrong with this country because Bush is in office. That sensationalism turns me off, and makes me thing he is incapable of thinking outside of that Democrat Box. And a president needs to be able to do that. A Senator doesn't.

(edited by Pool-Boy on 25.8.04 1649)
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#34 Posted on 25.8.04 2003.41
Reposted on: 25.8.11 2005.17
I was really hoping against hope that someone else would get the nomination at the democratic convention.

I just wish Kerry would say something about ANYTHING that was important to me. He's already said he won't repeal the Patriot Act. If he had said that he would, or would at least try to, I'd think more seriously about voting for him.

I already didn't want to vote for Bush, but I can't just vote for Kerry for just not being Bush. He has to prove that he really is different and we're not going to be

Kerry reminds me of The Smiler from Transmetropolitan by Warren Ellis. Bush seems to remind everyone of the Manchurian Candidate.

What kind of choice is that? I mean really, our two party system is broken. I'm very socially liberal, and financially conservative. Our two party system says that I have to choose one or the other. That's messed up.
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#35 Posted on 25.8.04 2043.33
Reposted on: 25.8.11 2044.22
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    And AWA, I didn't think much of our current President until the months after 9/11 where he performed much, much better than I expected. I was almost convinced I was wrong about him. Then the whole Iraq situation came about and he greatly diminished my respect.

    I've never understood this. What exactly did he do that was so great? Or perhaps I should phrase it like this - what would any other politician have done differently?

    Honestly - he basically talked about how bad the guys were that did this a lot, and how we were going to kick their ass. Quite honestly, I could have done that.


Maybe

"I commend President Bush for his leadership in this extraordinarily difficult time. I urge all my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to stand with him. " Sen John Edwards

"I commend President Bush for his strong statement last evening about finding and punishing the perpetrators of this atrocity." Sen Edward Kennedy

The Congressional Record, Sept 12, 2001

I couldn't find Kerry speaking - but it was many pages long.
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#36 Posted on 25.8.04 2056.42
Reposted on: 25.8.11 2057.13
    Originally posted by Lise
    He's already said he won't repeal the Patriot Act. If he had said that he would, or would at least try to, I'd think more seriously about voting for him.


I think the Patriot Act expires sometime in the near future. Bush asked at the State of the Union address for congress to extend it, but it doesnt look like it will be extended. Not at least without some major revisions (and somebody actuall READING it ;)) So maybe Kerry meant he wont kill it right away when he takes office but he wont extend it either.
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#37 Posted on 25.8.04 2138.36
Reposted on: 25.8.11 2138.59
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
      Originally posted by JaguarAgain, it's probably just me, but the only good politician is a dead one.

      -Jag

      Wellstone 04?


    I'm certainly not going to defend Bush's record on spending (I suspect we agree on it), but you think Kerry will be better? Universal health care isn't going to be cheap.

    And, Wellstone? The guy had a rep. as the most liberal politician going. I mean, he seemed like a nice fellow, but I doubt he was very fiscally conervative.


Wellstone's DEAD. Get it? :)
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#38 Posted on 26.8.04 0527.51
Reposted on: 26.8.11 0528.47
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Maybe

    "I commend President Bush for his leadership in this extraordinarily difficult time. I urge all my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to stand with him. " Sen John Edwards

    "I commend President Bush for his strong statement last evening about finding and punishing the perpetrators of this atrocity." Sen Edward Kennedy

    The Congressional Record, Sept 12, 2001

    I couldn't find Kerry speaking - but it was many pages long.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r107:1:./temp/~r107h78LD4:e102508:

Don't think you'll find anything interesting in there...?
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#39 Posted on 26.8.04 1859.28
Reposted on: 26.8.11 1900.33
    Originally posted by AWArulz
      Originally posted by PalpatineW
        Originally posted by JaguarAgain, it's probably just me, but the only good politician is a dead one.

        -Jag

        Wellstone 04?


      I'm certainly not going to defend Bush's record on spending (I suspect we agree on it), but you think Kerry will be better? Universal health care isn't going to be cheap.

      And, Wellstone? The guy had a rep. as the most liberal politician going. I mean, he seemed like a nice fellow, but I doubt he was very fiscally conervative.


    Wellstone's DEAD. Get it? :)


Hooray for AWA. And as for Kerry spending money on Universal Health-Care... well.. at least we wouldn't be over-paying Haliburton to rob us blind in Iraq?

Nah. I forgot, all pols sell us out to corporate america.

***

Taking a different whack it this thought (maybe on not so antagonistic), I'd much prefer a fiscal conservative. But if my choice is between two guys who are going to give us mounds of debt, I'm going to choose the guy who I think will spend that money better. That guy is not George Bush.

-Jag

As an aside, while I doing this rankings thing between the two, it should be noted that W takes a pretty hard beating for being the incumbent. Why, you ask? Because it's been proven for a fact that Bush spends like a maniac, while I can only assume that Kerry will spend just as much.
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#40 Posted on 26.8.04 1911.43
Reposted on: 26.8.11 1913.01
    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    My Rep is Ken Calvert. Aside from supporting the idiotic "Great Park" issue (really local), which was just retarded,


The "Great Park" was sure a hell of a lot better than building a bloody airport out of El Toro Marine Base. That whole thing just wreaked of Newport Beach/Donald Bren folks trying to move all John Wayne traffic to a different part of the county.

And Aliso Viejo would have been really screwed by the noise pollution.

Curious as to what you would have preferred there....
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