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26.11.07 1835
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Double Dipping: Voting Twice In The Same Election
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Downtown Bookie
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#1 Posted on 22.8.04 0902.03
Reposted on: 22.8.11 0904.21
Well, for fans of fair and honest elections, this (nydailynews.com) can't be good news:
    Originally posted by Russ Buettner, NY Daily News Staff Writer
    Some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida, a shocking finding that exposes both states to potential abuses that could alter the outcome of elections, a Daily News investigation shows.

    Registering in two places is illegal in both states, but the massive snowbird scandal goes undetected because election officials don't check rolls across state lines.

    The News found that between 400 and 1,000 registered voters have voted twice in at least one election, a federal offense punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

So why haven't these people been arrested?
    Originally posted by Russ Buettner, NY Daily News Staff Writer
    Officials in both states acknowledge that voting in multiple states is something of a perfect crime, one officials don't have the means to catch.
I find no comfort in the fact that the Daily News can discover the names of people who have illegally voted twice in one election (indeed contact them by phone, as the article relates) yet officials in both states say that they cannot. Your tax dollars at work.

Also disturbing is this bit of information:
    Originally posted by Russ Buettner, NY Daily News Staff Writer
    Nearly 1,700 of those registered in both states requested that absentee ballots be mailed to their home in the other state, where they are also registered. But that doesn't raise red flags with officials in either place.
Of course, whenever a problem in government is discovered, some people will provide the same knee-jerk solution:
    Originally posted by Russ Buettner, NY Daily News Staff Writer
    Eliminating the potential to vote in multiple states would require creating a national voter registration system with federally assigned voter ID numbers, said Allan Lichtman, a history professor at American University in Washington and a voting rights expert.
Since the Daily News was able to uncover names, dates and addresses of people who had voted in the same election in both states just by checking records that are already available, the professor is obviously wrong in his assessment. Now, this is just my opinion, of course, but I doubt that the solution to the government's incompetency in this matter is to create more government bureaucracy. On the other hand, I don't want to downgrade the potential magnitude of this problem. After all, if 46,000 people are registered in both New York and Florida, how many people are registered in both New York and New Jersey? New Jersey and Florida? Florida and Alabama? California and Nevada? Illinois and Michigan?

So what is the solution? Well, again, if a newspaper reporter was able to gather the names and addresses of people who voted twice in the same election in different states, it's fair to say that law enforcement officials should be able to do the same. Yes, they should. No new legislation is needed; as noted above, federal laws are already on the books dealing with this crime. If manpower is an issue, perhaps some of the soldiers fighting the war on drugs could be re-assigned to this new war on election fraud. After all, if fair and honest elections are the bedrock of a representative government, shouldn't this rate as a higher priority?
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MoeGates
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#2 Posted on 22.8.04 1244.32
Reposted on: 22.8.11 1245.32
Voting twice is a big deal. Being registered in two places, however, I think is probably just a slip-through-the-cracks thing. Here's the scenario - you've lived in Brooklyn your entire life, you're registered to vote there, you finally retire to Florida. You're in a gated Condo, never drive, and so don't bother to change your driver's license info, but election season rolls around and you want to vote. So you register in Florida. Bam - double registration. Repeat 46,000 times. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm still registed in Wisconsin.

The ins and outs of it I'm sure I've missed, but the point remain that unless you actually VOTE twice, I don't think being registred in two places is anything but a paperwork glitch.
dMp
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#3 Posted on 22.8.04 1548.04
Reposted on: 22.8.11 1548.29
But finding out and going after the people who voted twice has to happen after the elections, right? Which would be too late..
Plus a reporter can take the time to go find some people who voted twice. If you want it to happen nationally during elections checking out all votes..it woul cost a shit load of money..

(edited by dMp on 22.8.04 2249)
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#4 Posted on 22.8.04 1651.40
Reposted on: 22.8.11 1651.44
    Originally posted by dMp
    But finding out and going after the people who voted twice has to happen after the elections, right? Which would be too late....
Yes, one of the facts about law enforcement is that (generally speaking) you can't arrest someone for committing a crime until they have, in fact, committed said crime. Still, I don't think a society would last very long if their attitude was to ignore crime, and refuse to prosecute criminals (be they robbers or muggers or con artists or what-have-you), because it was "too late." On the other hand, if we were stop arresting criminals because "the crime was done and now it's too late" we could save a hell of a lot of money on our prisons and judicial system.

Speaking of a hell of a lot of money:
    Originally posted by dMp
    Plus a reporter can take the time to go find some people who voted twice. If you want it to happen nationally during elections checking out all votes..it would cost a shit load of money.
I may be missing your point here. Are you saying that a reporter has the time to ferret out crime, but the people who are paid to ferret out crime don't have the time? If law enforcement officials don't have the time to enforce the law, then how exactly are they spending their work day? Isn't the whole point of paying people to enforce the law to have them actually enforce the law? Now, I may be incredibly naive, but since we are already spending a shit load of tax dollars in this country for law enforcement, I don't see why I need to spend even more money to have the law actually enforced. But, of course, that is just my opinion.
dMp
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#5 Posted on 23.8.04 0223.13
Reposted on: 23.8.11 0223.16
I was thinking more along the lines of stopping something like this so it doesn't affect (screw up) your elections.

Obviously law enforcement should do something about this..
But could they do it in such a way in such short period of time that the elections aren't fraudulous as a result.
That would take a lot of money (you know how it works..special agency, task force, coffee machines, donut vendors, etc) to set up..
DrDirt
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#6 Posted on 23.8.04 0820.37
Reposted on: 23.8.11 0821.59
Is it against the law to purposely register in two places?
Grimis
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#7 Posted on 23.8.04 0826.38
Reposted on: 23.8.11 0827.07
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    Is it against the law to purposely register in two places?
Yes.
brick
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#8 Posted on 23.8.04 1117.31
Reposted on: 23.8.11 1118.08
Also right on the form to register it asks you if you are registered elsewhere and you have to fill in that info if you are.

I just registered here in CT and had to put my old NY address in, I'm assuming its so they can contact NY and unregister me there.
Grimis
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#9 Posted on 23.8.04 1150.37
Reposted on: 23.8.11 1151.27
    Originally posted by brick
    I just registered here in CT and had to put my old NY address in, I'm assuming its so they can contact NY and unregister me there.
Therre are provisions in the National Voter Registration Act(Motor-Voter) that involves cross-checking.
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#10 Posted on 23.8.04 1457.18
Reposted on: 23.8.11 1459.01
How exactly do you un-register?

I ended up on the rolls twice at my current address, and I need to get that fixed. I haven't voted twice and I don't intend to defraud, but it happened anyway.
Guru Zim
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#11 Posted on 23.8.04 1457.19
Reposted on: 23.8.11 1459.02
How exactly do you un-register?

I ended up on the rolls twice at my current address, and I need to get that fixed. I haven't voted twice and I don't intend to defraud, but it happened anyway.
Grimis
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#12 Posted on 23.8.04 1500.40
Reposted on: 23.8.11 1500.55
Call the local Board of Elections and say "hey I'm double registered".
JayJayDean
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#13 Posted on 23.8.04 1546.20
Reposted on: 23.8.11 1546.48
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Call the local Board of Elections and say "hey I'm double registered".


I actually just did that. In September Mrs. JJD and I moved from King County to Pierce County. I assumed when we changed our licenses our voter registration would be changed as well. Incorrect. At the Taste of Tacoma there were young people registering folks to vote, and as you might expect there was not much attention paid to getting details like "Are you already registered?" in the conversation.

I called the number on the back of my King County voter registration card after reading this thread and they were able to verify that, yes, I am still registered in King County despite being also registered in Pierce County. So, I need to send a letter including my previous address and date of birth explaining that we have moved out of the county and therefore need to be unregistered in King County. Pretty simple, moreso than I would've expected with it involving the government.
The Thrill
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#14 Posted on 24.8.04 1249.18
Reposted on: 24.8.11 1250.17
When I moved from one GB suburb to another, I informed the registration people when I, uh, registered in my new district, and they took care of removing me from my old registration spot...I think.

And as for double-dipping: it's nothing new. Just ask any Daley in Chicago...or any dead guy in Chicago. :-)
spf
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#15 Posted on 24.8.04 1355.11
Reposted on: 24.8.11 1355.21
Despite my having informed the various registration places, I am in fact able to vote four different times in the upcoming Illinois election. Thankfully, my candidates of choice are winning by 15 and 42 points at the moment, so I have no need to avail myself of such proud Chicago traditions. If Bush gets close though, I will spend all of Election Day commuting around the Chicagoland area from polling place to polling place. ;)
JoshMann
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#16 Posted on 24.8.04 1447.10
Reposted on: 24.8.11 1447.15
    Originally posted by spf2119
    If Bush gets close though, I will spend all of Election Day commuting around the Chicagoland area from polling place to polling place. ;)


You and the REST of Cook County. God bless Chicago as the home of some of the most left-wing ghosts/undead in this universe or the spiritual universe.


EDIT: It reminds me of a joke from my mother, who grew up in Skokie. "Chicago: Vote Early, Vote Often".



(edited by Blanket Jackson on 24.8.04 1559)
Grimis
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#17 Posted on 24.8.04 1456.39
Reposted on: 24.8.11 1457.09
This, incidentally, is one of a hundred reasons we won't abandon the Electoral College...
spf
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#18 Posted on 24.8.04 2031.28
Reposted on: 24.8.11 2032.45
    Originally posted by Grimis
    This, incidentally, is one of a hundred reasons we won't abandon the Electoral College...

Why, so that an irregularity of a couple thousand votes in one locality, rather than being a small aberration in the overall total, can instead tip the election from one candidate to the other?
Grimis
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#19 Posted on 25.8.04 0610.38
Reposted on: 25.8.11 0611.33
    Originally posted by spf2119
    Why, so that an irregularity of a couple thousand votes in one locality, rather than being a small aberration in the overall total, can instead tip the election from one candidate to the other?
No, but can you imagine organized political groups caravaning from one state or county to another, especially in the compact Northeast, voting in multiple jurisdictions?
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#20 Posted on 25.8.04 0921.17
Reposted on: 25.8.11 0924.19
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by spf2119
      Why, so that an irregularity of a couple thousand votes in one locality, rather than being a small aberration in the overall total, can instead tip the election from one candidate to the other?
    No, but can you imagine organized political groups caravaning from one state or county to another, especially in the compact Northeast, voting in multiple jurisdictions?

Sure, which, in the apocalypse scenario could swing a vote up to maybe 25,000-30,000 or so. Of course, we've never had an election swing on that small a margin nationally. As opposed to last year, where all it would have taken is 550 people like me double dipping and voting for Gore to have changed the election.

The bigger the scale, the more likely the irregularities will even out and cause less of a problem.
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