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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - The Un-Drafted Talent
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MonteCarl
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#1 Posted on 26.3.02 1127.45
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1129.03
Since there are a few wrestlers who were not drafted, as talked about in that other thread, here's what I think should happen to address them. On Smackdown, have Linda do another announcement stating that the draft was ended after 30 wrestlers were picked for each roster as per "the agreement between both sides" or whatever. She says that because of the lottery system that was used for the remainder of the draft, they realize that some wrestlers have been left "without a home". These wrestlers will compete in a series of matches as free agents on the weekend shows Excess and Jakked/Metal to try to gain the attention of Vince and Flair to be drafted into their league. This gives those "unsigned" wrestlers something to do while upping the viewability of the weekend shows to see wrestlers you won't see on Raw/Smackdown.

--Monte N
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#2 Posted on 26.3.02 1149.52
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1159.01
I like the idea, but there really aren't many unsigned guys. Not enough to fill up the weekend shows. The lists of unsgined guys I've seen on other sites mostly include injured guys or developmental guys. I'm sure the injured guys (Rhyno, Awesome, Kanyon, etc.) will just be "signed" by one of the groups upon their return.

As far as the devlopmental guys, they probably want to give them an introduction first instead of their names being called out in a draft, and the fans saying, "who the hell is that?!!" And who knows if these guys are even ready. I think the internet just assumed that they would be drafted and ready to roll on the big stage. It could be a while before we see the HWV and OVW guys.

So that would leave like Godfather and Funaki to battle it out on weekend shows. They could stick the developmental guys on there too, but that would give those shows an indy feel since the viewers would have never seen them before. I think they may be best off to split the shows. It will be hard to decide who gets Heat, though, since it has a nice timeslot and is on MTV. Maybe it will be a recap show to try to get fan interest in both brands.
TheBucsFan
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#3 Posted on 26.3.02 1157.25
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1159.02
411wrestling lists these unsigned talents:

Godfather
Funaki
Chavo Guerrero
Hugh Morrus
Shawn O'Haire
Chris Kanyon
Mike Awesome
Steve Blackman
TAKA Michinoku
Bull Buchanan
David Flair
Eric Angle
Jamie Knoble
Johnny the Bull
Mark Jindrak
Mike Sanders
Nidia
Randy Orton
RC Haas
Shannon Moore
Tiger Ali Singh

By my count, 6 have never appeared on WWF TV-Orton, RC Haas, Shannon Moore, Sanders, Johnny the Bull, Jamie Knoble. Maybe Jindrak, I can't rememeber.

Two others-Eric Angle, David Flair- have been on TV in the past but never wrestled.
Travis
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#4 Posted on 26.3.02 1201.21
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1202.52

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    411wrestling
    (problem #1)

    lists these unsigned talents:

    Godfather
    Funaki
    Chavo Guerrero

    Hugh Morrus

    Shawn O'Haire

    Chris Kanyon- INJURED

    Mike Awesome- INJURED

    Steve Blackman- INJURED

    TAKA Michinoku- INJURED

    Bull Buchanan

    David Flair

    Eric Angle

    Jamie Knoble

    Johnny the Bull

    Mark Jindrak

    Mike Sanders- INJURED

    Nidia

    Randy Orton

    RC Haas- INJURED

    Shannon Moore

    Tiger Ali Singh- INJURED


    By my count, 6 have never appeared on WWF TV-Orton, RC Haas, Shannon Moore, Sanders, Johnny the Bull, Jamie Knoble. Maybe Jindrak, I can't rememeber.


    Jindrak was on WWF TV during the InVasion.

    Two others-Eric Angle, David Flair- have been on TV in the past but never wrestled.
    David wrestled the Undertaker a while back and was WCW US Champion for a while.



Oh- You're also being mighty generous with the term "talent".
TheBucsFan
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#5 Posted on 26.3.02 1227.46
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1229.01
Funny, I don't remember typing all that stuff...
Travis
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#6 Posted on 26.3.02 1231.33
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1233.36

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Funny, I don't remember typing all that stuff...


It's painfully obvious I'm not talented enough to do a proper C&P. If anyone *really* thought I was quoting BF directly, I guess I apologize. To your parents for having to deal with your mongoloid condition, mainly.
Geez.
TheBucsFan
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#7 Posted on 26.3.02 1235.09
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1242.53
OK, if you want a response THAT BAD:

I simply copied that from 411, it wasn't my definition of a talented roster.

As for the injured guys, Chris Benoit is injured last I checked, but he was drafted number 5 overall.

As for Flair, I forgot about his "match" with Taker, but the WCW run is insignificant as I think I made it clear I was talking about WWF TV.
Spaceman Spiff
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#8 Posted on 26.3.02 1246.21
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1254.39

    It will be hard to decide who gets Heat, though, since it has a nice timeslot and is on MTV. Maybe it will be a recap show to try to get fan interest in both brands.

And that would be different than its current format......how?

Oh, and I see 411 "forgot" about Rhyno.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 26.3.02 1048)
Travis
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#9 Posted on 26.3.02 1251.54
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1259.02

    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

      It will be hard to decide who gets Heat, though, since it has a nice timeslot and is on MTV. Maybe it will be a recap show to try to get fan interest in both brands.

    And that would be different than its current format......how?

    Oh, and I see 411 "forgot" about Rhyno.

    (edited by Spaceman Spiff on 26.3.02 1048)




so maybe 411 isn't ALL bad

Rhyno is truly an abhorrent worker
oldschoolhero
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#10 Posted on 26.3.02 1321.16
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1329.03
Absolutely, abhorrent. By God, he should learn the Space Flying Tiger Drop or be canned. No big guys allowed!
Spaceman Spiff
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#11 Posted on 26.3.02 1321.53
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1329.05
Rhyno had a pretty good match w/ Rock before he was hurt.

Rhyno's OK. He's no Benoit, obviously, but to say he's an "abhorrent worker" is a little outlandish, IMO.
TheBucsFan
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#12 Posted on 26.3.02 1324.14
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1329.08

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Absolutely, abhorrent. By God, he should learn the Space Flying Tiger Drop or be canned. No big guys allowed!


That a bit of an overreaction. It's not the fact that he can't do jawdropping moves that make him bad. It's how little he does simple ones. Sure he does a suplex here or there, but I look at Rhyno and have a hard time thinking of a move he does regularly besides the gore.

Unless you count the missed gore into the turnbuckle, that is.
Travis
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#13 Posted on 26.3.02 1331.43
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1338.42

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Absolutely, abhorrent. By God, he should learn the Space Flying Tiger Drop or be canned. No big guys allowed!


Hey, Sarcastic Spastic, I'm all about big guys in wrestling. Ones who can execute their finisher without injuring themselves or others. One who can do a piledriver without nearly killing the other guy. One who can do a body slam or throw a worked forearm smash. Not even punches. I don't expect miracles.

You jump to too many conclusions, smarky smark.
oldschoolhero
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#14 Posted on 26.3.02 1336.49
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1338.42
Considering HE carried your God and mine, Chris Jericho, to a watchable match at SummerSlam last year, I think we can cut the guy some slack. He's a GOOD WRESTLER-come on, it's not that hard to admit. I mean, Jesus, did you even WATCH him in the WWF? Fair enough, he stank in ECW, but he was a different person once he made it to the big leagues. He dropped a ton of weight and became one of the most consistently watchable guys on WWF TV. And can you point to any great number of injuries caused by Rhyno in the WWF? I sure as Hell can't.
Travis
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#15 Posted on 26.3.02 1344.05
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1352.28

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Considering HE carried your God and mine, Chris Jericho, to a watchable match at SummerSlam last year, I think we can cut the guy some slack. He's a GOOD WRESTLER-come on, it's not that hard to admit. I mean, Jesus, did you even WATCH him in the WWF? Fair enough, he stank in ECW, but he was a different person once he made it to the big leagues. He dropped a ton of weight and became one of the most consistently watchable guys on WWF TV. And can you point to any great number of injuries caused by Rhyno in the WWF? I sure as Hell can't.


a) his chronic neck injuries might have to do with him not properly protecting himself when doing his finisher

b) Spike Dudley comes immediately to mind as someone who he's injured, as does Pitbull #2 a few months before lil' R appeared in the WWhiFf- did he suddenly learn to work in the span of *weeks* between the folding of ECW and his WWF debut?

c) the fact that you've suggested that Rhyno carried a guy with a decade more experience and dozens fewer injuries to his credit (himself or others) indicates to me that you don't know what the hell you're talking about and I may as well discuss workrate with one of the borderline-retarded schizophrenics who beg me for change on the way to the subway- they at least have eyes and can see when someone doesn't know what the hell they're doing
oldschoolhero
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#16 Posted on 26.3.02 1403.21
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1412.26
Dear God, what the Hell are you talking about? I hope to God you haven't seen last year's SS match because if you did that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard said. Jericho was a veritable Evan Karagias that night, blowing the Lionsault and a missile dropkick in spectacular fashion (ie. falling face first off the top rope). He also damn near killed Rhyno with a delayed boot to the face on a corner charge. In response, Rhyno came off very well and managed to hold his end of the match together. And if you want to believe that a concussed Jericho was the guy behind the good quality of that match then that's your prerogative. But it doesn't stop me calling you a complete tool.

And Jesus, talk about me making assumptions. I've been watching wrestling for over ten years now and I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about. I'm sure as Hell as lot more rational about my arguments than you seem to be. Rhyno may not be Chris Benoit, but to call him an abhorrent worker is stupid and bullheaded. It's insulting a guy just for the sake it, just because his work and style doesn't fit into the cookie cutter mould for "great wrestler". Oh, hey, how about Chris Benoit's "chrnoic neck injury"? That surely came from years of not doing his finisher properly! And don't bother throwing the buzzword "workrate" at me because it doesn't mean shit.
Sean
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#17 Posted on 26.3.02 1540.58
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1542.02
:He also damn near killed Rhyno with a delayed boot to the face on a corner charge.


Actually, the person receiving the kick is responsible for any incidental contact - thus the bonk goes to Rhyno.



:In response, Rhyno came off very well and managed to hold his end of the match together.


If, by holding his end of the match together, you mean not selling, not hitting any moves, and not transitioning from offense to defense, then yes, I agree with you.



:And if you want to believe that a concussed Jericho was the guy behind the good quality of that match then that's your prerogative. But it doesn't stop me calling you a complete tool.


You speak of this match as if it was actually good - it wasn't. It held the crowd together reasonably well, only because Jericho was really over at the time. The only real heat it got was for transitions, and guess who called the match and worked the transitions?



:And Jesus, talk about me making assumptions. I've been watching wrestling for over ten years now and I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about.

Wow, 10 years, you must be 18 or something.


:I'm sure as Hell as lot more rational about my arguments than you seem to be. Rhyno may not be Chris Benoit, but to call him an abhorrent worker is stupid and bullheaded. It's insulting a guy just for the sake it, just because his work and style doesn't fit into the cookie cutter mould for "great wrestler".


Forget great, how about competent? A competent wrestler is one who keeps the crowd engaged in his match without regularly injuring himself or his opponents. He uses strikes, selling, moves, and transitions to tell an effective story in the ring. Does Rhyno possess _any_ (never mind all) of those traits?


:Oh, hey, how about Chris Benoit's "chrnoic neck injury"? That surely came from years of not doing his finisher properly!


According to the man himself, it came when he dived off the top of a steel cage, a spot that Paul Heyman booked.


:And don't bother throwing the buzzword "workrate" at me because it doesn't mean shit.



Workrate (n) - The rate at which one works.
Punkinhed
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#18 Posted on 26.3.02 1546.49
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1548.55



What does workrate mean, anyway? I don't mean the definition, I wantthe meaning when someone says "his workrate is good" or something. What exactly are they speaking of?
oldschoolhero
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#19 Posted on 26.3.02 1606.22
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1617.05
If you guys wanna pick holes in any and all wrestlers regarding transitions, workrate and all the grey-area buzzwords that go with them then you shouldn't be watching the WWF, because you'll be criticising 90% of the roster. Rhyno, as I said, is a decent wrestler. If you can't deal with that, then fuck you. That's all I can say. I've given you every rational argument for my belief, and you've done nothing to dissuade me from that belief. But if you want me to pick holes in YOUR argument, the way you did MINE, then fine.

Rhyno charged into the corner and, when seeing that Jericho did NOT get his foot up in time, carried on, presumably expecting a back elbow or some othe rmove to tunr him awya. Instead Jericho raised his boot, damn near beheading the poor guy. How that is Rhyno's fault is beyond me.

The match was given three stars by Scott Keith, called "decent" by Meltzer and "good" by Ryder. I personally enjoyed it, as did many of my friends and others on this board. So, in my book, that makes it a good match. I guess you must be judging by international standards.

Don't patronise me about my age, you little shit. Yeah, I'm 18, with ten years of wrestling fandom behind me. According to our friend Travis, who stated that Jericho was so much better than Rhyno due to his ten years' experience, that makes me a veteran fan and better than many on this board. Of course, I don't *believe* that, but I'm not going to stand by and have some arrogant pissant tell me I know nothing about wrestling just because he disagrees with me.

During his WWF tenure, Rhyno caused no serious injuries. There is your first argument shot out of the water. He has effective strikes, and I've never had an issue with his selling, which is as sound as, say, Edge or Booker T. You want me to name moves he does? Big splash, bodyscissors, airplane spin -> Diamond Cutter, T-Bone suplex, belly-to-belly suplex, Gore, powerbomb. Simple and somewhat limited moveset, but again no better than your average WWF wrestler. Transitions is the only place where I'll give you some due-sure, he needs a little work.

And again, no clear definition of workrate as it pertains to pro wrestling and how it makes a performer good or great. Thank you, drive through.

Oh, and by the way, Benoit's back injury was caused through months of high impact wear-and-tear, augmented by his dive thorugh a table in TLC 3. Point me to the specific time he said it was caused in his cage match with Angle, and I'll defer to you. Also point me to any evidence that Rhyno's neck injury was caused by his sloppy work and bad wrestling and again, I'll defer to you. But-Surprise!-there ain't none.

Sean
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#20 Posted on 26.3.02 1631.46
Reposted on: 26.3.09 1631.46
Oh, come on, booster, lighten up with the personal attacks and watch the wrestling.

See that part where you said that Jericho didn't "get his foot up in time?" That's called a miscall - when one wrestler doesn't do what the other one expects, because there was a breakdown in communication - it happens all the time. Most *competent* wrestlers will fuck up a little and then cover for it - I can't say who was right or wrong there, since we don't know what was called; however, had Jericho not lifted his feet when Rhyno charged into the corner, the both of them would have looked mighty stupid.


Bringing up the opinions of Scott Keith or Bob Ryder does nothing for your argument - the match was, in fact, "decent" - in the * 3/4-** 1/4 range. Not "good" (***-*** 3/4) by any streatch of the imagination.


I made the remark about your age because the your insinuation that the fact that you've watched wrestling for 10 years in any way makes a difference in wrestling discussion is just nutty. I've watched wrestling for 16 years, does that make me an authority on it? Of course not - what makes me qualified is the fact that I watch it with an eye for detail. That said, 10-year veteran Jericho does have significantly more credibility than Rhyno simply because he's lasted in just about every major territory in the world without dishing out or sustaining a serious injury.


Rhyno *has* no significant WWF tenure, period. He can't be judged by the 2 dozen matches he's worked for the company, especially since most of those were 2 minute specials. You are also quick to make a list of "moves" that Rhyno "performsm," but my initial point was that Rhyno doesn't perform said moves with any consistency, competency, or credibility. Heh, the 3 C's. I should keep that tucked away for the future.


I'm troubled that you substitute the broad and meaningless term "workrate" as a way to dismiss substantive analysis of a wrestler's capacity to work - the word simply means "the rate at which one works." Thus, a shithead scumbag like Sabu has very high workrate, but can't work. There are reasons why certain guys get pops during their matches and others don't - when I say that someone's transitions are bad, I mean that they will pick up on offense for no reason, or do moves in an illogical manner, i.e. lifting someone off the ground and whipping them into the ropes after just slamming them. All WWF guys can't be criticized in this way, because guys like Austin and the Rock have mastered the ability to maximize transitions for a loud pop.


You're right, it was the table dive and not the cage match that fucked him up, it was an error in memory on my part. That said, it was a single stupid move that ultimately caused the damage. Keep in mind, however, that Benoit has been a pro for almost 15 years, and this is his _only_ injury requiring lengthy time away from the ring and surgery. There's a reason for that.
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