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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - International team to monitor U.S. Presidential election Register and log in to post!
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Nuclear Winter
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#1 Posted on 8.8.04 2206.34
Reposted on: 8.8.11 2209.15
Click Here (cnn.allpolitics.printthis.clickability.com)

    Originally posted by David de Sola from CNN
    The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe was invited to monitor the election by the State Department. The observers will come from the OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.

    It will be the first time such a team has been present for a U.S. presidential election.


This just makes me mad. Now the United States, symbol of freedom throughout the world, is having other countries keep watch over its elections.

Why can't the Democrats and John Kerry inparticular deal with the fact that one million African Americans WEREN'T disenfranchised? It just didn't happen.

Promote this thread!
redsoxnation
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#2 Posted on 8.8.04 2237.41
Reposted on: 8.8.11 2240.53
Don't look now, but we are just continuing to slide down that slope towards 1 World Government. As has been the case for the past 70 years, whether Republicans or Democrats held the White House or Congress, the true enemy is the State Department.
eviljonhunt81
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#3 Posted on 8.8.04 2304.39
Reposted on: 8.8.11 2305.16
    Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
    Why can't the Democrats and John Kerry inparticular deal with the fact that one million African Americans WEREN'T disenfranchised? It just didn't happen.




I was unaware of the fact that the Democrats and John Kerry inparticular ran the State Department.
Big Bad
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#4 Posted on 9.8.04 0048.15
Reposted on: 9.8.11 0048.51
If any other country in the world had such a close and controversial election, the US would no doubt be advising that the OSCE step in during the next one to make sure everything went smoothly. If the shoe fits...
Grimis
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#5 Posted on 9.8.04 0640.34
Reposted on: 9.8.11 0645.51
Who the fuck thought THIS was a good idea?
DrDirt
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#6 Posted on 9.8.04 0728.29
Reposted on: 9.8.11 0729.02
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Who the fuck thought THIS was a good idea?


I don't know but perhaps this will embarass us enough to get this right. It is a disgrace that the most advanced country in history can't insure a national election without the crap in 2000. It wasn't just Florida that had problems.
TheBucsFan
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#7 Posted on 9.8.04 0826.31
Reposted on: 9.8.11 0829.01
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Who the fuck thought THIS was a good idea?


Why is it a bad idea? What exactly is the harm?
Grimis
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#8 Posted on 9.8.04 0827.34
Reposted on: 9.8.11 0829.02
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Why is it a bad idea? What exactly is the harm?
Because we are the United States of America. We don't need people interferring in our affairs.

Especially considering that thew problem is an exagerated one...
Gugs
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Y!:
#9 Posted on 9.8.04 0903.08
Reposted on: 9.8.11 0904.36
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Why is it a bad idea? What exactly is the harm?
    Because we are the United States of America. We don't need people interferring in our affairs.


It's that kind of unabashed arrogance that has alienated the international community and, some would say, contributed to or even caused the events of September 11th.

We fucked up. The 2000 election was a massive embarrassment across the board. If the election date is November 2, then the winner should be known by November 3. In this case, it was over a month before we knew, and even then the results were questionable at best.

If we don't want the international community keeping an eye on our elections, we should make sure that this one runs as smoothly as possible.
SKLOKAZOID
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#10 Posted on 9.8.04 0911.29
Reposted on: 9.8.11 0913.52
I wouldn't go so far as to blame one political party over this. Republicans could be wary of Democrats "getting revenge" over 2000, and Democrats could be worried about the same thing happening again.

I don't really like this idea. Not because foreigners are infringing in our political process (with our government's blessing), but because this is an incredibly unecessary move that could be solved internally.

Our Presidential election system DOES need some reform, but I believe it comes with US setting national standards, such as a uniform ballot format. When I look at that Florida ballot compared to the one I filled out, it was significantly different and I can see where voters would get confused with the punch-hole system.

There should also be a better, faster system of counting up votes with a paper ballot (to protect individual votes), and a bipartisan oversight committee to make sure things are run fairly.

EDIT: I guess it is those damn Democrats. The foreigners did monitor the California recall, which was heavily against a Democrat, though.

Link (cnn.allpolitics.printthis.clickability.com)

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 9.8.04 0827)
PalpatineW
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#11 Posted on 9.8.04 1042.43
Reposted on: 9.8.11 1045.23
    Originally posted by gugs
      Originally posted by Grimis
        Originally posted by TheBucsFan
        Why is it a bad idea? What exactly is the harm?
      Because we are the United States of America. We don't need people interferring in our affairs.


    It's that kind of unabashed arrogance that has alienated the international community and, some would say, contributed to or even caused the events of September 11th.

    We fucked up. The 2000 election was a massive embarrassment across the board. If the election date is November 2, then the winner should be known by November 3. In this case, it was over a month before we knew, and even then the results were questionable at best.

    If we don't want the international community keeping an eye on our elections, we should make sure that this one runs as smoothly as possible.


The "international community" is a fraud. The world right now can be divided into four groups. The United States and her allies, France and her allies, crazy states that want to kill us, and everyone else.

Tell me what exactly the "international community" is keeping an eye on? Do you think France give's a rat's derriere about anything that happens in this country? Do you think anyone in Europe does? They are interested in making us look bad, period. International politics is every bit the game of power-grabs that domestic politics is; assigning pure motives to any of these agencies is naivete.

We ought to be able to clean up our own elections without losing face to our enemies in the process. Why these Democrats felt compelled to bring the OSCE in, and not, as Sklok suggested, a bi-partisan committee, I just don't know.
Big Bad
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#12 Posted on 9.8.04 1120.20
Reposted on: 9.8.11 1120.29
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Because we are the United States of America. We don't need people interferring in our affairs.


Wow, if this board had an ironic quote of the year contest.....

Joseph Ryder
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#13 Posted on 9.8.04 1153.17
Reposted on: 9.8.11 1153.20
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Do you think France give's a rat's derriere about anything that happens in this country? Do you think anyone in Europe does?


Yes. Not believing this is unbelievably ignorant.
Pool-Boy
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#14 Posted on 9.8.04 1331.32
Reposted on: 9.8.11 1332.24
The problem in 2000 wasn't hanging chads, bad counting, or voters having their rights taken away from them. When it was all said and done, the election turned out with the exact same result if people would have just let the process shake itself out according to election law. Even the media recount months later confirmed this.

2000 was an embarrassment because of the complaining. The "we lost because my vote wasn't counted" or "I must have voted for the wrong person on accident!" It was an embarrassment because certain parties were too quick to run to the courts to get the results they wanted. It was an embarrassment because the media just couldn't wait to declare a winner, and to be the first to guess right.

This international oversight committee is just going to make things worse. There are always irregularities in an election, especially as one as large as the Presidential here. So OF COURSE they are going to find problems, no matter what happens. And now that a candidate has brought an election to court because they didn't like the result, I can almost guarantee that it will happen again this time around. Any tiny little problem in this year's election found by this committee is going to be the flashpoint for lawsuit after lawsuit. The problem isn't election law; the problem is that people can't seem to follow it if they don't like the results. Or the potential results.

See, this, once again, goes back to that whole "politics stops at the border." When you have a fight with your wife, you don't bring your neighbor into it. Democrats and Republicans might disagree (a lot), but when it comes to the rest of the world, we are supposed to be a strong, unified nation that takes care of its own internal problems. If there is a problem with the way we run our elections, we are supposed to be strong enough and thoughtful enough to be able to work it out on our own. Aren't we supposed to be a world leader? Isn't our style and type of government supposed to be the envy of the world? Yet we aren't even competent enough to run our own elections without an international group watching over us?

Damn the Democrats for asking for this, and damn the State Department even more for selling out our sovereignty in the name of covering your ass. I am embarrassed to be an American today.
avonhun
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#15 Posted on 9.8.04 1400.16
Reposted on: 9.8.11 1401.28
the hypocracy in this threat is daunting. americans feel the need to go all over the world to make people use our governmental system but as soon as a bipartisan, independent committee with NO ACTUAL POWER TO CHANGE ANYTHING wants to take a closer look that is unthinkable.
JustinShapiro
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#16 Posted on 9.8.04 1540.19
Reposted on: 9.8.11 1542.15
Poo: "Damn the Democrats for asking for this, and damn the State Department even more for selling out our sovereignty in the name of covering your ass. I am embarrassed to be an American today."

Oh quit being such a terrorist.


avon: "the hypocracy in this threat is daunting."

Freudian slippery, ha ha, but yes indeed.
TheBucsFan
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#17 Posted on 9.8.04 1840.31
Reposted on: 9.8.11 1840.55
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Why is it a bad idea? What exactly is the harm?
    Because we are the United States of America. We don't need people interferring in our affairs.

    Especially considering that thew problem is an exagerated one...


Yeah I see your point.

You know, when I was real young, my Mom would say something stupid, and if I or any of my borthers or sisters disagreed with her, we were yelled at and/or hit. When we asked why we couldn't call my Mom out on being dumb, the response was always "because I'm your Mother and I said so!"

The response made absolutley no sense when she said it, and it makes absolutely no sense when you say it. Being the biggest, oldest, most powerful, etc., means never having to admit your wrong or accept consequences or be embarassed when you do something really, really stupid?

I don't talk to my Mom anymore, and have told her I won't until she admits she was a bitch for years. I don't care about anyhting she says. I don't trust her, and I see her as insecure and stupid. Why would the world's response to America having the exact same attitude be any different?

EDIT: Which isn't to say my Mom wasn't smarter than me all those years. But why should she be above explaining herself to me? Why should America be above explaining itself?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 9.8.04 1945)
SeVen ™
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#18 Posted on 10.8.04 0041.18
Reposted on: 10.8.11 0041.54
That was well said TBF. I see nothing wrong with the election being monitored. If it really bothers you then go out and organize voting blocks and show these outsiders how it is done in America. I will say this, if Election 2000 happened in other countries, there would have been civil war and blood shed.
Iago
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#19 Posted on 10.8.04 0043.41
Reposted on: 10.8.11 0051.03
    Originally posted by Big Bad
      Originally posted by Grimis
      Because we are the United States of America. We don't need people interferring in our affairs.


    Wow, if this board had an ironic quote of the year contest.....




Well... not really, unless he meant the opposite.

But it get's a goldstar for "You weren't even thinking, were you?"

When there is a term (blowback) for when our meddling in other coutries bites us in our ass hard, it's safe to say that maybe we, the country, should stop acting like we're on Survivor trying to get others voted off.

Now, I am all for election reform, it's seriously f*cked in every sense of the word. I mean whether or not you believe if George W. stole the election there were a lot of problems to lead up to that point. Like... oh the winner-take-all thing we do for the electoral college. Keep the college, just change it proportional. But I am sure there are other fixes that can be applied to the problems.
Dahak
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#20 Posted on 10.8.04 0748.21
Reposted on: 10.8.11 0748.53
I don't know Iago about changing the electoral college. It does have a lot of problems but if the EC is gotten rid of the current way the Senate is determined would probably be next.
But some things could be done to fix the Presidential election process. Have the voting booths open all across the country from say 8 AM -11 PM EST. That would be a small pain for Hawaii and Alaska but they could have a write in election.
Don't let the news broadcast their "results" until the election is closed. The farther west you go the less people vote because the winner is already known.
No Carter like giving up when half the country is still voting. If you get your ass kicked don't give up unitl the polls are closed.
Also about the Florida thing didn't the local DNP party approve the ballot? If not then all parties on the ticked should have to approve it. If yes then the DNP should admit they screwed up and move on.
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