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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Swift Boat Vets blast Kerry in damning new ad.
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PalpatineW
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#41 Posted on 19.8.04 0222.05
Reposted on: 19.8.11 0222.23
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Another crack in the story of these Swift Boat Veterans For Truth clowns....

    Click Here (story.news.yahoo.com)


Clowns? You do understand that Kerry slandered an entire generation of soldiers? You're too young (as am I) to remember 'Nam. Maybe you ought to consider more carefully the words of 200+ people who were actually there. We've got a few vets on this board who have done an excellent job of outlining their problems with Kerry. Whether you agree with these guys or not, I think they've earned the right not to be called clowns; furthermore, it's been proven that Kerry has lied, at least once. In my mind, that makes it more or less fair game to question him. It doesn't make one a "clown."

As for the substance of your comment, well... so what? It may be true, it may not be true. The soldier in question suggests that Kerry may be responsible for the version of events contained in that report. Given Kerry's ambitions and aptitude for politics, displayed as soon as he came home from Vietnam, I find that to be a plausible explanation. John Kerry has claimed a lot of things that the official records do not support (Cambodia, any number of war crimes claims later rescinded). I mean, we now know that the memory
"seared, seared" into Kerry's brain never actually happened. No one has an iron-clad story here. I'm sure John Kerry acted bravely in Vietnam, but that doesn't mean that he didn't heavily embellish his tales for personal gain. Kerry launched his career when he slandered these men, and by making a 30 year-old war the central theme of his campaign, well, he's invited these chickens home to roost.

(edited by PalpatineW on 19.8.04 0328)
Barbwire Mike
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#42 Posted on 19.8.04 1002.21
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1002.48
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Another crack in the story of these Swift Boat Veterans For Truth clowns....

    Click Here (story.news.yahoo.com)

That's priceless. "Booohoooo, these dirty Republicans. We'd never let people like MoveOn do our dirty work for us. Why can't they run a clean campaign on the issues... errrr... my war record... Bush sucks!"
Leroy
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#43 Posted on 19.8.04 1225.55
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1226.47
    Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
    That's priceless. "Booohoooo, these dirty Republicans. We'd never let people like MoveOn do our dirty work for us. Why can't they run a clean campaign on the issues... errrr... my war record... Bush sucks!"


It comments like this that really earn my ire, when you see organizations linked to the GOP do this stuff ALL THE TIME.

Personally, I'd like to see John Kerry fight a negative campaign. If he got the right people around him who could help him really take Bush to task, he could eat Bush alive. Let Edwards be the nice guy. It's not likely to happen, but that's the Democrats for you.

    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher

    These are the type of scum that's in the Bush camp. It breaks my heart to see John McCain who I have respect for not matter what party he represents having to endorse G Dub in the past few days, I have a feeling it's breaking his too, but he has to play some ball for his team I guess.


It's exactly why I have no faith in any of these guys coming forward who "served" with Kerry. I don't care what "served with" means - none of them were in the same swift boat. Really, not a single credible source has really come forward. And given what Bush's camp has done in the past, they'll stoop to just about any level.

While I disagree with McCain on a lot of issues - he's seems like one of the few honorable politicians out there. His work on LPFM legislation has been VERY impressive - and he's flying in the face of major corporations trying to block it.

Just take some solice in knowing that while McCain is campaigning for Bush out of "necessity", he's probably not voting for him.
DrDirt
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#44 Posted on 19.8.04 1244.38
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1246.22
Leroy, typically it is just the reverse. The VP candidate is the attack dog while his boss acts stately and presidential. Examples Agnew for Nixon and Cheney for "W".
Grimis
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#45 Posted on 19.8.04 1250.35
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1256.14
    Originally posted by Leroy
    It comments like this that really earn my ire, when you see organizations linked to the GOP do this stuff ALL THE TIME.
But I think you missed the point. Kerry is kvetching about Swift Boats because they are a 527 funded by a Texas Republican who has spent "a few hundred thousand" on them, while gladly accepting the support of MoveOn, another 527, funded by George Soros who has spend north of ten millions dollars on it.

In a word. 527s are only good when they support your guy...

    Originally posted by Leroy
    Personally, I'd like to see John Kerry fight a negative campaign. If he got the right people around him who could help him really take Bush to task, he could eat Bush alive. Let Edwards be the nice guy. It's not likely to happen, but that's the Democrats for you.
I think most Democrats realize Kerry is going down in flames and realize its not worth the effort...

    Originally posted by Leroy
    It's exactly why I have no faith in any of these guys coming forward who "served" with Kerry. I don't care what "served with" means - none of them were in the same swift boat. Really, not a single credible source has really come forward. And given what Bush's camp has done in the past, they'll stoop to just about any level.
This is absurd and you know it...

(edited by Grimis on 19.8.04 1350)
OlFuzzyBastard
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#46 Posted on 19.8.04 1253.58
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1258.54
    Originally posted by Grimis
    I think most Democrats realize Kerry is going down in flames and realize its not worth the effort...


This is absurd and you know it.
spf
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#47 Posted on 19.8.04 1256.32
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1259.01
Hey, this is kind of funny. Considering that all the attacks on Kerry seem to engage in micro-parsing where need be, I'm sure there will be equal scrutiny applied to this:

Records Counter a Critic of Kerry (story.news.yahoo.com)

    Originally posted by Washington Post
    Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry (news, bio, voting record)'s most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

    In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

    But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."...


Leroy
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#48 Posted on 19.8.04 1258.29
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1259.02
    Originally posted by Grimis
    In a word. 527s are only good when they support your guy...


Obviously, I prefer MoveOn - the status of the organization has nothing to do with it. But I still maintain that it is and was the GOP who have turned politics into this mud slinging battle of "You're slimier than me...." - and it all started with Bush Sr. and the Willie Horton ad.


    Originally posted by Grimis
    I think most Democrats realize Kerry is going down in flames and realize its not worth the effort...


If you think Bush is going to win by a landslide, then you're dreaming....

    Originally posted by Grimis
    This is absurd and you know it...


I'm totally convinced that the goal of 90% of what you post is simply to piss people off.

It's not absurd - don't be a jerk.

(edited by Leroy on 19.8.04 1109)
Von Maestro
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#49 Posted on 19.8.04 1315.16
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1316.07
    Originally posted by Leroy
    But I still maintain that it is and was the GOP who have turned politics into this mud slinging battle of "You're slimier than me...." - and it all started with Bush Sr. and the Willie Horton ad.


Do you honestly believe that political mudslinging began in 1988 with the Willie Horton Ad???

Even if you believe this, you do realize that Gore went after Dukakis in the Democratic Primaries over the Horton issue, right...?
Grimis
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#50 Posted on 19.8.04 1334.11
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1334.40
    Originally posted by Leroy
    I'm totally convinced that the goal of 90% of what you post is simply to piss people off.

    It's not absurd - don't be a jerk.
I don't get it. I point out the fact that you repeatedly contradict yourself in your post. I point out liberal hypocrisy. Hell, I point our Republican hypocrisy most of the time too. Hell, you ignored my point on MoveOn, which is conducting the same type of campaign the SwiftVets have done, and tried to shift blame to negative mudslinging to the GOP when this has been going on for 150+ years. Hell, modern mudslinging started with LBJ and the Daisy ad back in 1964, but I don't hear that being quoted.

Proving that you were wrong and ignoring the facts does not make me a jerk. Sorry...
    Originally posted by spf2119
    Hey, this is kind of funny. Considering that all the attacks on Kerry seem to engage in micro-parsing where need be, I'm sure there will be equal scrutiny applied to this:(and etc.)
The irony is not lost on my that the Post has attempted to ignore the entire story with the Swift Boat Vets.
spf
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#51 Posted on 19.8.04 1402.10
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1402.24
    Originally posted by Grimis
    The irony is not lost on my that the Post has attempted to ignore the entire story with the Swift Boat Vets.

I will take your lack of response on the actual story itself to mean that you understand that you are in the wrong and are in fact apologizing in full for all your incorrect attacks on YOUR new candidate of choice, John F. Kerry

And actually, it was the damn Federalists who started the mudslinging with the way they attacked Jefferson back in the 1800 race.
Grimis
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#52 Posted on 19.8.04 1421.47
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1422.11
    Originally posted by spf2119
    I will take your lack of response on the actual story itself to mean that you understand that you are in the wrong and are in fact apologizing in full for all your incorrect attacks on YOUR new candidate of choice, John F. Kerry
I will comment; one guy out of 250 is the law of averages. The fact that so many people have come out saying that Kerry is a piece of shit is very telling...
spf
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#53 Posted on 19.8.04 1425.59
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1426.03
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by spf2119
      I will take your lack of response on the actual story itself to mean that you understand that you are in the wrong and are in fact apologizing in full for all your incorrect attacks on YOUR new candidate of choice, John F. Kerry
    I will comment; one guy out of 250 is the law of averages. The fact that so many people have come out saying that Kerry is a piece of shit is very telling...

But what about when one of the guys upon whom the credibility of the group is based is shown as a liar? Most of those 250 are simply agreeing with the opinion of the man whose story is in question. This guy though is the first-hand witness who can attest to Kerry's dishonesty, and his veracity is now in question.
Grimis
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#54 Posted on 19.8.04 1450.51
Reposted on: 19.8.11 1452.43
The latest report, incidentally, names the officer who wrote the report indicating the enemy fire.

The officer was LTJG John Forbes Kerry.

    Originally posted by John Thurlow
    I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

    To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates -- there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

    I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.

    It was not until I had left the Navy -- approximately three months after I left the service -- that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

So maybe the real problem is that Kerry is a compulsive liar.

The world will never truly know.
PalpatineW
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#55 Posted on 19.8.04 2032.08
Reposted on: 19.8.11 2034.10
    Originally posted by spf2119
      Originally posted by Grimis
        Originally posted by spf2119
        I will take your lack of response on the actual story itself to mean that you understand that you are in the wrong and are in fact apologizing in full for all your incorrect attacks on YOUR new candidate of choice, John F. Kerry
      I will comment; one guy out of 250 is the law of averages. The fact that so many people have come out saying that Kerry is a piece of shit is very telling...

    But what about when one of the guys upon whom the credibility of the group is based is shown as a liar? Most of those 250 are simply agreeing with the opinion of the man whose story is in question. This guy though is the first-hand witness who can attest to Kerry's dishonesty, and his veracity is now in question.


Kerry's dishonesty in at least one case has already been exposed; he was not in Cambodia when he said he was, and may never have been there at all. Will you hold Kerry to the same standard you seem to be holding his opponents?
Grimis
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#56 Posted on 20.8.04 0631.54
Reposted on: 20.8.11 0633.00
And let's also not forget that even the ones supporting Kerry fully admit that they were not in Cambodia, as Kerry has mentioned ad naseum.

Or, as Instapundit dutifully points out:
    Originally posted by Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit
    Something I said there that bears repeating -- the reason why the Christmas-in-Cambodia story is getting the media cold-shoulder, and why what SwiftVet coverage there is focuses on the medals, etc., is that the Christmas-in-Cambodia story is clear, and has already been proven false. It's easy to understand, and that makes it much more devastating for Kerry.

    The medal stuff is complex, and can be spun in a way that makes people's eyes glaze over. So that's what we'll mostly get, along with "political" stories that will treat the SwiftVets stuff as partisan hackery in a way that Michael Moore never gets treated by the same outlets.
OlFuzzyBastard
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#57 Posted on 20.8.04 1011.17
Reposted on: 20.8.11 1016.02
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
    Even if you believe this, you do realize that Gore went after Dukakis in the Democratic Primaries over the Horton issue, right...?


That would be a good point if it were, you know, true.
Reverend J Shaft
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#58 Posted on 20.8.04 1100.24
Reposted on: 20.8.11 1101.03
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Originally posted by Von Maestro
      Even if you believe this, you do realize that Gore went after Dukakis in the Democratic Primaries over the Horton issue, right...?


    That would be a good point if it were, you know, true.


Which it is. Thanks for the source. Von said Gore went after the Horton issue, which your article helpfully points out is true. And even if he doesn't mention Horton by name, the Bush campaign manager said he wouldn't have been aware of Horton had Gore not brought it up. Again, thanks.

Look, both sides are running negative ads about one another. But only one side said he wanted a positive campaign. I'll take a mud-slinger over a liar AND a mud-slinger anyday.

(edited by Reverend J Shaft on 20.8.04 1200)
OlFuzzyBastard
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#59 Posted on 20.8.04 1121.04
Reposted on: 20.8.11 1122.30
    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    Which it is. Thanks for the source. Von said Gore went after the Horton issue, which your article helpfully points out is true. And even if he doesn't mention Horton by name, the Bush campaign manager said he wouldn't have been aware of Horton had Gore not brought it up. Again, thanks.


Look, the problem with the Willie Horton ads wasn't the issue raised. The problem with the Willie Horton ads was that they were a clear-cut case of race-baiting and denigrating stereotypes. To imply that Al Gore started it is to imply that Gore race-baited Dukakis in the primaries. The furlough issue is not what's controversial (or the reason we remember) those commercials.

    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    Look, both sides are running negative ads about one another. But only one side said he wanted a positive campaign. I'll take a mud-slinger over a liar AND a mud-slinger anyday


Bush isn't a liar? You mean we found the weapons of mass destruction?! Dammit, I gotta watch Fox News more.

Incidentally, a quick trip to the official Kerry site gets me pictures of and articles about John Kerry. A similar trip to Bush's official campaign site gets me... pictures of and articles about John Kerry.
spf
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#60 Posted on 20.8.04 1127.31
Reposted on: 20.8.11 1129.01
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Kerry's dishonesty in at least one case has already been exposed; he was not in Cambodia when he said he was, and may never have been there at all. Will you hold Kerry to the same standard you seem to be holding his opponents?

I certainly shall. I don't believe hardly anything that comes out of John Kerry's mouth. I think he's a sleazy dirty politician prone to stretching the truth to the very limits of its malleability.

That said I still think he's a hell of a lot better choice than Bush who I think is a sleazy dirty politician prone to stretching the truth to the very limits of its malleability, and also tends to make lots of decisions that I disagree with 100%.

They're both lying balls of shit with dirty sleazy allies. I think Kerry is more likely to support and sign legislation and make decisions that I am in favor of over Bush, and less likely to say things that will make the majority of the world and many of our allies despise us. As my mother said "I would vote for a chimp in a suit over Bush." I did vote for a chimp in a suit over Kerry in the primaries. But he's who I'm stuck with as the only person who can get rid of Bush, so I'm supporting him to the hilt. Kind of a depressing way to think about politics, but it's what we're stuck with.
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