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21.11.07 0609
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Swift Boat Vets blast Kerry in damning new ad.
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bash91
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#21 Posted on 6.8.04 1837.51
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1841.39
And now it appears that Elliot is going to seek a middle ground.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/06/vet.kerry.reut/index.html

Elliott later issued another affidavit -- witnessed and notarized -- this time saying he was misquoted by the Globe and reaffirming his belief that Kerry has "not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."

Elliott also wrote: "Had I known the facts, I would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for simply pursuing and dispatching a single wounded, fleeing Viet Cong."


Tim
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#22 Posted on 6.8.04 1848.00
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1856.28
You know, it's really starting to piss me off people like Moore and Soros and the bloated turd who paid for these ads are actually going to influence a real percentage of voters.
Downtown Bookie
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#23 Posted on 6.8.04 1936.14
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1936.15
This is just my opinion, of course, but after reading about George Elliot and how he keeps changing his story and contradicting what he has said in the past (including the very recent past), shouldn't he be running for politcal office? Am I the only one that thinks Elliot would fit right in with the Beltway crowd? I swear, it seems that he's changed his story more often than Marina Oswald. Shouldn't there be laws limiting the number of times you can recant what you've said in the space of a week? And how many times is Elliot going to blame his answers on the amount of time he had to respond? Does Elliot think that he's on a quiz show with the clock ticking? Is he afraid that if he takes the time to think before he speaks that a giant buzzer is going to sound and he won't be able to go on to the next round? Has anyone started a pool yet on how long it will be before he changes his story again?
AWArulz
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#24 Posted on 6.8.04 2321.31
Reposted on: 6.8.11 2324.22
    Originally posted by Downtown Bookie
    This is just my opinion, of course, but after reading about George Elliot and how he keeps changing his story and contradicting what he has said in the past (including the very recent past), shouldn't he be running for politcal office? Am I the only one that thinks Elliot would fit right in with the Beltway crowd? I swear, it seems that he's changed his story more often than Marina Oswald. Shouldn't there be laws limiting the number of times you can recant what you've said in the space of a week? And how many times is Elliot going to blame his answers on the amount of time he had to respond? Does Elliot think that he's on a quiz show with the clock ticking? Is he afraid that if he takes the time to think before he speaks that a giant buzzer is going to sound and he won't be able to go on to the next round? Has anyone started a pool yet on how long it will be before he changes his story again?


He said he was misquoted by The Globe - the guy who wrote the article for the Globe is Michael Kranish,
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

seems liike Kranish kind of works for Kerry - http://www.nydailynews.com/business/story/219297p-188612c.html - so I hope there isn't any conflict of interest

Yeah, he might be biased - http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ath=Michael+Kranish

DrDirt
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#25 Posted on 7.8.04 1653.50
Reposted on: 7.8.11 1654.33
    Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
    You know, it's really starting to piss me off people like Moore and Soros and the bloated turd who paid for these ads are actually going to influence a real percentage of voters.


Don't panic just yet. Often they simply reinforce the views of people instead of changing them. It would take a real bombshell to actually change anything.
avonhun
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#26 Posted on 8.8.04 1028.41
Reposted on: 8.8.11 1029.01
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Understood about Eliot - but like 250 guys signed that letter.

    Obviously, I wasn't there. I'm a vietnam Era vet, but wasn't deployed to SE Asia (NE Asia for me). But this much I know: somebody is bullshitting somebody.

    I do know this: The Vets I knew from my era hate Kerry cause of his hanging out with Hanoi Jane and making us "baby killers". I feel the same way. I find it hard to imagine that these guys are all wrong and Kerry's few buddies are right. I figure it's somewhere in between.

    This wouldn't even be an issue if he wasn't running on Vietnam, which seems a silly thing to do after 30+ years. I think it's different when Ike runs on WWII 8 years later. I mean, he did run WWII.



I think that it is important to look at how close these people who signed knew Kerry. as AWArulz said a lot of vietnam vets hold ill feelings toward Kerry. I think that could influence their decision on this matter.

On a side note i fear we are only one step away from Pat Robertson making a commercial that states "God wants you to vote for George Bush"
brick
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#27 Posted on 10.8.04 1020.48
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1025.05
I hadn't paid these ads much attention till the Dailey Show pointed out a few things last night. Yep I get my pollitiacal news from a fake news program, ok not all of it.

Anyway, while all these gentalmen technically "served" with Kerry, none of them were on a swift boat with him.

The doctor who claims to have treated his first wound that recieved a purple heart did not sign any of the medical paperwork pertaining to that injury, nor is there any evidence that he actualy treated Kerry.

Kind of odd that he would have a clear memory of a minor scratch that he treated in 'nam, I would think putting on a band-aid would quickly slip form ones memory.

I understand these gentalmen being upset with Kerry's anti-vietnam stance, but there seems to be very little credibility.
Grimis
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#28 Posted on 10.8.04 1041.00
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1041.22
    Originally posted by brick
    Anyway, while all these gentalmen technically "served" with Kerry, none of them were on a swift boat with him.
For the record, I don't think anybody has claimed anything beyond that...
A Fan
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#29 Posted on 10.8.04 1042.10
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1042.59
If none of them served with Kerry, why should I believe anything they say about his military record?
Grimis
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#30 Posted on 10.8.04 1047.45
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1048.37
    Originally posted by A Fan
    If none of them served with Kerry, why should I believe anything they say about his military record?
Because you serve with people in a unit. Just becausue you are not on the boat with Kerry, especially given the size of these boats, does not mean that you are on a boat with them. C'mon, get real.
rockstar
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#31 Posted on 10.8.04 1104.02
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1104.17
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by A Fan
      If none of them served with Kerry, why should I believe anything they say about his military record?
    Because you serve with people in a unit. Just becausue you are not on the boat with Kerry, especially given the size of these boats, does not mean that you are on a boat with them. C'mon, get real.


So if you're not on the boat, that doesn't mean you're on the boat? Really? What?

It seems that there's way too much second-hand information coming from these people, seeing as how they weren't on the boat with Kerry.
Grimis
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#32 Posted on 10.8.04 1105.30
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1106.33
    Originally posted by rockstar
    It seems that there's way too much second-hand information coming from these people, seeing as how they weren't on the boat with Kerry.
In one ear, out the other....
rockstar
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#33 Posted on 10.8.04 1110.24
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1110.46
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by rockstar
      It seems that there's way too much second-hand information coming from these people, seeing as how they weren't on the boat with Kerry.
    In one ear, out the other....


Is there a point to that or are you just trolling? And how about a clarification on your boat comment?
Grimis
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#34 Posted on 10.8.04 1152.07
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1154.08
What is there to clarify? A group of boats go on patrol together in a unit. In close quarters in the Mekong Delta, in this instance. Ergo, just you can serve in a unit with somebody and not be on the same boat. We're not talking about a battle group here. We're talking about small boats, in close proximity.
Leroy
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#35 Posted on 10.8.04 1226.40
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1228.34
This is nothing more than I smear campaign - and even if Kerry's war record is exaggerated, I doubt any of these people appearing in this "ad" have any credibility whatsoever....

And rumor has it (and granted, this is just a rumor), the same people resposible for this nonsense are responsible for this (from an article written by McCain's campaign manager in 2000):

From The Boston Globe The anatomy of a smear campaign

--

"Anonymous opponents used "push polling" to suggest that McCain's Bangladeshi born daughter was his own, illegitimate black child. In push polling, a voter gets a call, ostensibly from a polling company, asking which candidate the voter supports. In this case, if the "pollster" determined that the person was a McCain supporter, he made statements designed to create doubt about the senator.

Thus, the "pollsters" asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black. In the conservative, race-conscious South, that's not a minor charge. We had no idea who made the phone calls, who paid for them, or how many calls were made. Effective and anonymous: the perfect smear campaign."

--

Bush's political machine at it's "finest".

(edited by Leroy on 10.8.04 1028)
AWArulz
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#36 Posted on 10.8.04 1356.36
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1358.27
    Originally posted by A Fan
    If none of them served with Kerry, why should I believe anything they say about his military record?


For example, I was in the 2nd Platoon, 1st shift of the 2nd MP company. 25 of us, all on shift together. 2nd Plattoon, 2nd shift was on the other shift. 1st Platoon, 1st shift, and 1st Platoon, 2nd shift also existed.

Sure, we we're never on duty at the same time unless the sky was falling (as it did once). But I knew everyone in all the shifts and who the good guys were and who the jerks were. I knew who the good LTs were and who the bad ones were. I knew which Sarges I had to follow to the letter and who would let me slide. There were no secrets, because, even though we worked at different times and in different parts of our areas of operation (for example, my shift usually worked at a place called Camp Hovey, while the other shift usually worked at Camp Casey - unless we were working out in the towns keeping the little GIs from terrorizing To-ki-ri and TDC.).

But we knew. We didn't know what was going on in the Infantry units or in the Air Cav or in the engineers. But everyone knew everything in our unit. For example, there was this sergeant who was black marketing. We ALL knew about it. I am absolutely SURE the C.O. knew too. But we all looked the other way. You knew who the bad LTs were, because you knew he wouldn't back you and so you acted differently.

That's how the military worked. Then and now. The 70s were a weird time, but I suggest there's been little changed since then. Kerry's buddies on his own boat (4-6 guys) would be closer of course. Maybe a guy in one of the other shifts in my unit might have gotten away with some small thing I didn't know about. For example, I found out after a guy had left that he had a regular business letting in the prostitutes into the base - but only because we switched shifts around. But that was small time. I used to get a bowl of amen Soup for free every shift because I would tell the Newbies about a particular place to go in the Ville. Small time.

But big stuff, we'd all know about.

How can 200+ guys all attesting to the same thing not be at least somewhat credable?

Grimis
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#37 Posted on 10.8.04 1401.52
Reposted on: 10.8.11 1402.31
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    But big stuff, we'd all know about.

    How can 200+ guys all attesting to the same thing not be at least somewhat credable?


Because they're against Kerry, dammt[/sarcasm]

EDIT: The Annenburg Policy outfit's FactCheck.org has fact-checked the ad without conclusion.

Naturally, somebody has fact-checked the fact-check...

Incidentally, the author who broke the retraction in the Globe the other day, Michael Kranish, authored the introduction to Kedwards' "Plan for America." Hmmm...

(edited by Grimis on 10.8.04 1607)
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#38 Posted on 11.8.04 0910.58
Reposted on: 11.8.11 0913.11
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    How can 200+ guys all attesting to the same thing not be at least somewhat credable?




It's an election year. No one is credible.
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#39 Posted on 14.8.04 1041.55
Reposted on: 14.8.11 1042.37
    Originally posted by Leroy
    This is nothing more than I smear campaign - and even if Kerry's war record is exaggerated, I doubt any of these people appearing in this "ad" have any credibility whatsoever....

    And rumor has it (and granted, this is just a rumor), the same people resposible for this nonsense are responsible for this (from an article written by McCain's campaign manager in 2000)

    --

    "Anonymous opponents used "push polling" to suggest that McCain's Bangladeshi born daughter was his own, illegitimate black child. In push polling, a voter gets a call, ostensibly from a polling company, asking which candidate the voter supports. In this case, if the "pollster" determined that the person was a McCain supporter, he made statements designed to create doubt about the senator.

    Thus, the "pollsters" asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black. In the conservative, race-conscious South, that's not a minor charge. We had no idea who made the phone calls, who paid for them, or how many calls were made. Effective and anonymous: the perfect smear campaign."

    --

    Bush's political machine at it's "finest"

I was reading up on that a while ago, real disgusting stuff. Shows exactly what type of people are in the Bush camp. That wasn't even it, they also put out "anonymous" pamphlets all over South Carolina telling people that McCain's wife had a history of drug addiction (she had addicted to prescription pain killers in the past)... Bush does have a connection with Ted Sampley who called John McCain a trader and even a communist spy & now he's also going after Kerry.

These are the type of scum that's in the Bush camp. It breaks my heart to see John McCain who I have respect for not matter what party he represents having to endorse G Dub in the past few days, I have a feeling it's breaking his too, but he has to play some ball for his team I guess.
Big Bad
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#40 Posted on 19.8.04 0121.08
Reposted on: 19.8.11 0121.10
Another crack in the story of these Swift Boat Veterans For Truth clowns....

Click Here (story.news.yahoo.com)
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