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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Swift Boat Vets blast Kerry in damning new ad.
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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 5.8.04 1055.19
Reposted on: 5.8.11 1055.32
My god, they rip him to shreds...
http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video_wmv.html
(the swiftvets.com links were not working)

Of course, I suppose that these guys who were there are just GOP tools lying to make Kerry look bad. The script is here.
    Originally posted by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth script
    George Elliott: "John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."

    Al French: "He is lying about his record."

    Louis Letson: "I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury."

    Van O'Dell: "John Kerry lied to get his bronze star ... I know, I was there, I saw what happened."

    Jack Chenoweth: "His account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day."

    Admiral Hoffman: "John Kerry has not been honest."

    Adrian Lonsdale: "And he lacks the capacity to lead."

    Larry Thurlow: "When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry."

    Bob Elder: "John Kerry is no war hero."

    Grant Hibbard: "He betrayed all his shipmates ... he lied before the Senate."

    Shelton White: "John Kerry betrayed the men and women he served with in Vietnam."

    Joe Ponder: "He dishonored his country ... he most certainly did."

    Bob Hildreth: "I served with John Kerry ...

    Bob Hildreth (off-camera): John Kerry cannot be trusted."

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OMEGA
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#2 Posted on 5.8.04 1307.22
Reposted on: 5.8.11 1310.34
Could they have been anymore vague? If they're gonna' blast Kerry for lying, at least take a second or two to tell what his lies were. The commercial are just guys going on screen stating: "John Kerry lied. He's a liar. Kerry lied about Vietnam. Don't trust John Kerry. He lied. He's a liar."
oldschoolhero
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#3 Posted on 5.8.04 1333.05
Reposted on: 5.8.11 1337.58
I think what's REALLY sad about this mess-and perhaps American politics in general-is that you could slip Paul E. and John Hrrnrr in there and it wouldn't play that much different. Just run it in your head:

George Elliott: "John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."

Al French: "He is lying about his record."

Big John: "Hei. Den. Reich."

Louis Letson: "I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury."

Big John: "Hei. Den. REICH."

Paul Heyman: "Surely you know it by now!"

Van O'Dell: "John Kerry lied to get his bronze star ... I know, I was there, I saw what happened."

The thing reads like a fucking wrestling promo package.

spf
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#4 Posted on 5.8.04 1342.45
Reposted on: 5.8.11 1344.24

Well, it's either that or that all the folks at the Dem convention are just Dem tools trying to make Kerry look good. Which group of vets are you going to choose to believe it what it comes down to.
Joseph Ryder
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#5 Posted on 5.8.04 1346.49
Reposted on: 5.8.11 1347.13
    Originally posted by spf2119

    Well, it's either that or that all the folks at the Dem convention are just Dem tools trying to make Kerry look good. Which group of vets are you going to choose to believe it what it comes down to.


I'll stick with the ones who were actually on the same boat.
Grimis
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#6 Posted on 5.8.04 1542.53
Reposted on: 5.8.11 1546.24
And the Kerry Campaign and the DNCis threatening to sue TV Stations who air the ad...
Big Bad
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#7 Posted on 5.8.04 1732.19
Reposted on: 5.8.11 1734.15
I think these guys have seen the Manchurian Candidate too many times. Or, maybe they're just a bunch of bitter assholes.
Dahak
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#8 Posted on 6.8.04 0741.39
Reposted on: 6.8.11 0743.46
If McCain and Dole don't say anything bad about Kerry's war record who the hell am I to blast him?
Grimis
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#9 Posted on 6.8.04 0813.48
Reposted on: 6.8.11 0815.16
Now I question the veracity of Kerry's claims that this is bogus because Team Kerry is also suing the Club for Growth over one of their ads. (second page).

The boy who cried wolf?

(edited by Grimis on 6.8.04 0913)

And to be fair...
    Originally posted by Michael Kranish in the 8/6/04 Boston Globe
    But yesterday, a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star -- one of the main allegations in the book. The affidavit was given to The Boston Globe by the anti-Kerry group to justify assertions in their ad and book.

    Elliott is quoted as saying that Kerry ''lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

    The statement refers to an episode in which Kerry killed a Viet Cong soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher, part of a chain of events that formed the basis of his Silver Star. Over time, some Kerry critics have questioned whether the soldier posed a danger to Kerry's crew. Crew members have said Kerry's actions saved their lives.

    Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.

    ''I still don't think he shot the guy in the back," Elliott said. ''It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."



(edited by Grimis on 6.8.04 0920)
The Thrill
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#10 Posted on 6.8.04 0846.18
Reposted on: 6.8.11 0852.19
    Originally posted by Grimis
    And the Kerry Campaign and the DNCis threatening to sue TV Stations who air the ad...


Hmmm...a rival station of mine had an item about this new ad, and its shortcomings, during their newscast last night. Maybe I can slip the DNC their contact info, and they could sue. :-)
messenoir
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#11 Posted on 6.8.04 0912.31
Reposted on: 6.8.11 0915.16
Can you repudiate either of the claims the DNC is making in their suits, Grimis? If the claims the commercials are making are false, that is illegal. The claims the commercials are making seem to be false, both of them.
Grimis
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#12 Posted on 6.8.04 0924.21
Reposted on: 6.8.11 0925.19
    Originally posted by messenoir
    If the claims the commercials are making are false, that is illegal.
No, they are not. Political commercials can damn near say anything that they want, and can be exempted because of political speech. They are not claiming anything about a product that is being sold or anything like that, so they are free and in the clear. It is a quirk of campaing law.

Interestingly enough, Bush may have stolen the higher ground:
    Originally posted by Bill Sammon and Stephen Dinan in the 8/6/04 Wash Times
    The White House yesterday distanced itself from a political ad that questions John Kerry's Vietnam service and called on the Democratic presidential nominee to join President Bush in demanding an "immediate cessation" of all advertisements by outside groups.

    "We have not and will not question Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters aboard Air Force One. "The president is calling for an immediate cessation to all the unregulated soft money activity."

    He added: "We hope the Kerry campaign will join us."

And the Kerry camp can't do this, because they are surviving on soft money ads right now...
spf
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#13 Posted on 6.8.04 1009.19
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1015.50
A smooth move, albeit a totally useless one in that he is calling for something he has no power over. Smooth since he gets to have a news cycle that talks about him calling for it, and when the attack dogs release sludge ads he can be pious and keep saying "I disavow these horrible ads" even though everyone with even the slightest grasp of politics knows that there is no such thing as an ad campaign totally divorced from the campaign, on either side of the aisle.
Grimis
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#14 Posted on 6.8.04 1011.04
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1016.16
    Originally posted by spf2119
    A smooth move, albeit a totally useless one in that he is calling for something he has no power over. Smooth since he gets to have a news cycle that talks about him calling for it, and when the attack dogs release sludge ads he can be pious and keep saying "I disavow these horrible ads" even though everyone with even the slightest grasp of politics knows that there is no such thing as an ad campaign totally divorced from the campaign, on either side of the aisle.
Bingo.
spf
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#15 Posted on 6.8.04 1055.51
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1056.06
(sorry if this looks like a conversation but this is a piece of info that strikes me as important to the thread)

Veteran retracts criticism of Kerry (boston.com)

    Originally posted by Boston Globe
    But yesterday, a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star -- one of the main allegations in the book. The affidavit was given to The Boston Globe by the anti-Kerry group to justify assertions in their ad and book.

    Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.

    ''I still don't think he shot the guy in the back," Elliott said. ''It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."

    Elliott said he was no under personal or political pressure to sign the statement, but he did feel ''time pressure" from those involved in the book. ''That's no excuse," Elliott said. ''I knew it was wrong . . . In a hurry I signed it and faxed it back. That was a mistake."

    The affidavit also contradicted earlier statements by Elliott, who came to Boston during Kerry's 1996 Senate campaign to defend Kerry on similar charges, saying that Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star.


AWArulz
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#16 Posted on 6.8.04 1254.09
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1255.21
Understood about Eliot - but like 250 guys signed that letter.

I don't really know how to post a picture, but if you go to this site:
http://www.swiftvets.com/article.php?story=20040629220813790
and this one
http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=Letter


then to this site and view the picture
http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=SwiftPhoto

I thought that was pretty interesting.

Obviously, I wasn't there. I'm a vietnam Era vet, but wasn't deployed to SE Asia (NE Asia for me). But this much I know: somebody is bullshitting somebody.

I do know this: The Vets I knew from my era hate Kerry cause of his hanging out with Hanoi Jane and making us "baby killers". I feel the same way. I find it hard to imagine that these guys are all wrong and Kerry's few buddies are right. I figure it's somewhere in between.

This wouldn't even be an issue if he wasn't running on Vietnam, which seems a silly thing to do after 30+ years. I think it's different when Ike runs on WWII 8 years later. I mean, he did run WWII.
JoshMann
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#17 Posted on 6.8.04 1324.47
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1327.35
    Originally posted by awa rulz
    Understood about Eliot - but like 250 guys signed that letter.


True, but it just piques natural human curiousity to say "One person within 48 hours of the ad running has already recanted their story that they signed a sworn statement to...how many MORE are there".

As a cop, isn't catching someone in a small lie so that you can catch them in a bigger lie a vital part of the interrogation process? I'm just saying that one small lie has already been caught and it makes me at least skeptical of the other 249 names.
Pool-Boy
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#18 Posted on 6.8.04 1532.55
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1535.34
Elliot disputes Article (Sorry if someone else got this link already...

Am I think only one here who thinks that the Kerry camp would have been better served by ignoring these guys? I mean, now they are drawing all sorts of attention to the scandal, and its getting to a point where it isn't going to go away anytime soon...

You know things are serious when the media would rather talk about this than the WHOLLY HILARIOUS Bushism we got yesterday....
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#19 Posted on 6.8.04 1601.31
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1607.22
AWA, as has been stated before, I think they played this because the enemy was protraying him as a wimp and dove. Also they wanted to contrast his records with "W"'s Guard service. I also really wonder if a lot of this is payback for deportment in the early 1970's.

Neither side should really be accusing the other side of lying. There's plenty to go around by both camps. Let's discuss issues and have both sides allow the plublic to make an informed choice. I can dream, right?
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#20 Posted on 6.8.04 1701.20
Reposted on: 6.8.11 1701.21
    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    You know things are serious when the media would rather talk about this than the WHOLLY HILARIOUS Bushism we got yesterday....


(Looks down)

Hey, I'm doing my part.

(I think it's called a Fruedian Slip, though.)
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