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21.12.07 0329
The 7 - Baseball - Simmons on Nomah's Departure.
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odessasteps
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#1 Posted on 2.8.04 1752.57
Reposted on: 2.8.11 1753.32

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/040802
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BigSteve
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#2 Posted on 2.8.04 1931.45
Reposted on: 2.8.11 1931.45
I read that article and as always I think that Simmons is right on point. These days I don't consider Nomar to be quite of the caliber of A-Rod or Tejada, and I think that he's not quite as good as Jeter. i don't think that he'll ever put up quite the numbers he did in 99.
skorpio17
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#3 Posted on 3.8.04 0820.32
Reposted on: 3.8.11 0821.40
I thought Nomar put up some pretty good numbers last year...

the funny thing is a few years back when the Yankees played at Fenway they'd start a chant for every Jeter at bat saying, "No-mahs Bet-ter" Jeter just shook his head and laughed it off.

Those saying Boston should've traded Nomar earlier to get Magglio Ordonez, should take a look at what Ordonez is doing. He only has 37 RBIs this year.

I also wouldn't overlook the addition of Dave Roberts for Boston. He is one of the best basestealers in baseball. They should find a way to get him in the lineup.
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#4 Posted on 3.8.04 0841.23
Reposted on: 3.8.11 0841.55
Well, Nomar IS better, by every metric I've ever seen. VORP, Lee Sinins' RCAA, career average, range factor...

What's your point?
BOSsportsfan34
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#5 Posted on 3.8.04 0927.48
Reposted on: 3.8.11 0929.03
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Well, Nomar IS better, by every metric I've ever seen. VORP, Lee Sinins' RCAA, career average, range factor...

    What's your point?


Nomar hasn't been NOMAR since before the wrist injury. I think Simmons makes a good comparisom between Nomar and Jim Rice. Rice peaked early in his career then settled to around a .300 hitter who could be pitched to in key spots.

avonhun
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#6 Posted on 3.8.04 0939.42
Reposted on: 3.8.11 0944.03
i think nomars ego was pretty bruised. he will do much better with the cubs
Whitebacon
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#7 Posted on 3.8.04 1004.43
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1006.01
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    Those saying Boston should've traded Nomar earlier to get Magglio Ordonez, should take a look at what Ordonez is doing. He only has 37 RBIs this year.


And while looking at Magglio's season, one should note that he's missed at least half the season due to an injury. That's probably why he only has 37 RBI this year.
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#8 Posted on 3.8.04 1017.01
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1017.32
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Well, Nomar IS better, by every metric I've ever seen. VORP, Lee Sinins' RCAA, career average, range factor...

    What's your point?


You forgot all his world series rings. OH! Sorry.
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#9 Posted on 3.8.04 1108.12
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1108.43
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    I also wouldn't overlook the addition of Dave Roberts for Boston. He is one of the best basestealers in baseball. They should find a way to get him in the lineup.


Except for the fact that he becomes Boston's fourth (or fifth?) outfielder. Great pinch-runner late in the game - only player I've seen able to pull an 0-fer and still swipe two bags. Maybe that's just because he can't hit.
Whitebacon
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#10 Posted on 3.8.04 1135.11
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1137.15
    Originally posted by TheCow
      Originally posted by skorpio17
      I also wouldn't overlook the addition of Dave Roberts for Boston. He is one of the best basestealers in baseball. They should find a way to get him in the lineup.


    Except for the fact that he becomes Boston's fourth (or fifth?) outfielder. Great pinch-runner late in the game - only player I've seen able to pull an 0-fer and still swipe two bags. Maybe that's just because he can't hit.


And, you can't steal first base. (Lloyd McLendon notwithstanding.)

Besides, the only opening in the Boston outfield is right, and if they're so keen on improving the defense, I don't think having two thirds of the outfield patrolled by a couple of noodle-arms is such a good idea. Of course, they'll probably be starting Kevin Millar there now, who I hear "makes Johnny Damon look like Gary Sheffield."

(edited by Whitebacon on 3.8.04 0938)
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#11 Posted on 3.8.04 1146.54
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1148.39
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Well, Nomar IS better, by every metric I've ever seen. VORP, Lee Sinins' RCAA, career average, range factor...

    What's your point?


How about heart? Jeter plays harder than just about anyone else i've ever seen in baseball. He may not be the best at what he does but he puts his all into everything. Thats why Jeter is great and Nomar isn't. Nomar doesn't seem to want to go that extra mile to win.
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#12 Posted on 3.8.04 1224.00
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1225.52
    Originally posted by bubblesthechimp
      Originally posted by PalpatineW
      Well, Nomar IS better, by every metric I've ever seen. VORP, Lee Sinins' RCAA, career average, range factor...

      What's your point?


    How about heart? Jeter plays harder than just about anyone else i've ever seen in baseball. He may not be the best at what he does but he puts his all into everything. Thats why Jeter is great and Nomar isn't. Nomar doesn't seem to want to go that extra mile to win.


Yeah, I've always got the feeling that Jeter is the heart and soul of all of the recent Yankees teams, but with Nomar I just see him as being a good player on a good team rather than a leader.
JoshMann
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#13 Posted on 3.8.04 1430.31
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1430.59
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Well, Nomar IS better, by every metric I've ever seen. VORP, Lee Sinins' RCAA, career average, range factor...

    What's your point?


This is really simple: with two outs in the 9th inning and a guy on second in a tie game, if I had to pick between the two of them who I'd send up there? Jeter, no contest. And that means just as much if not more than RCAA stats do.

They're a good dividing line, but they don't tell you how a player comes through in the clutch.

I'm a lifelong Dolphins fan, but in a life-or-death game I take Montana in his prime over Marino in his prime, even if Marino has the better lifetime stats.
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#14 Posted on 3.8.04 1651.24
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1654.45
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
      Originally posted by skorpio17
      Those saying Boston should've traded Nomar earlier to get Magglio Ordonez, should take a look at what Ordonez is doing. He only has 37 RBIs this year.


    And while looking at Magglio's season, one should note that he's missed at least half the season due to an injury. That's probably why he only has 37 RBI this year.


Yes that 37 RBI is in just 52 games, which if he played the whole season would be around 120 RBI. And if he had been in Boston, perhaps he doesn't get his injury. I'd MUCH rather have Maggs than Nomar. But since I'd rather the Whitesox be good than the Redsox I'm glad the trade never went down.
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#15 Posted on 3.8.04 1724.39
Reposted on: 3.8.11 1724.50
    Originally posted by Quezzy
      Originally posted by Whitebacon
        Originally posted by skorpio17
        Those saying Boston should've traded Nomar earlier to get Magglio Ordonez, should take a look at what Ordonez is doing. He only has 37 RBIs this year.


      And while looking at Magglio's season, one should note that he's missed at least half the season due to an injury. That's probably why he only has 37 RBI this year.


    Yes that 37 RBI is in just 52 games, which if he played the whole season would be around 120 RBI. And if he had been in Boston, perhaps he doesn't get his injury. I'd MUCH rather have Maggs than Nomar. But since I'd rather the Whitesox be good than the Redsox I'm glad the trade never went down.
If he were in Boston it is almost certain the injury never happens, since it was a trauma injury, when he collided with Willie Harris chasing a popup. Their legs tangled up hard. Obviously something else could have happened, but it's not like he had some lingering injury that would have followed him wherever he went to.
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#16 Posted on 4.8.04 0918.20
Reposted on: 4.8.11 0920.36
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    They're a good dividing line, but they don't tell you how a player comes through in the clutch.


How many times will the "clutch hitter" argument need to be disproved before anyone stops using his asinine term?
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#17 Posted on 4.8.04 1155.14
Reposted on: 4.8.11 1159.02
    Originally posted by pieman
      Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      They're a good dividing line, but they don't tell you how a player comes through in the clutch.


    How many times will the "clutch hitter" argument need to be disproved before anyone stops using his asinine term?


Probably the same number of times as its counterpart; the 'Pitcher x gives up just enough runs to win' argument.
Big Bad
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#18 Posted on 4.8.04 1508.46
Reposted on: 4.8.11 1511.37
    Originally posted by pieman
      Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      They're a good dividing line, but they don't tell you how a player comes through in the clutch.


    How many times will the "clutch hitter" argument need to be disproved before anyone stops using his asinine term?


You can disprove it all you want, but people will still believe it. If the pitcher thinks a guy is a clutch hitter, it tenses them up. Hell, even if they think a guy ISN'T a clutch hitter, he might ease up a bit much and then get taken yard.
PalpatineW
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#19 Posted on 4.8.04 1631.32
Reposted on: 4.8.11 1633.32
    Originally posted by The whole lot of you fools
    Blah blah blah clutch blah blah world series rings blah blah blah voodoo


For Pete's sake, guys.

a.) What Pieman said. People who look at facts and numbers have more or less proven people like Joe Morgan wrong a hundred times over.

b.) World series rings? I suppose Luis Sojo is a better player than Nomar, too. You're sounding like a fanboy, here.

c.) Big Bad - do you have any proof, whatsoever, about your "clutch" theories? Does Derek Jeter have some kind of voodoo black magic that causes pitchers to tense? Did he lose some of his juju early this season, accounting for his horrific months-long slump?
skorpio17
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#20 Posted on 5.8.04 0714.33
Reposted on: 5.8.11 0719.29
Whatever terminology you want to use instead of clutch player, you have to apply it to Jeter. Call him a money game player, a big game player, or just a guy who doesn't choke in the postseason. And if you are down by two runs in the bottom of the ninth he's the guy I want up. (See yesterday's game)

Jeter's played some very good defense this year especially compared to his counterpart in Queens. The Yankees would never trade Jeter for an Orlando Cabrera.

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