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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Kerry's Speech Register and log in to post!
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PalpatineW
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#1 Posted on 29.7.04 2151.44
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2151.57
I didn't see nearly enough of it, so I'd love to hear everyone else's take on it.

Catching the tail end of the speech, this call-and-response business with the "help is on the way" slogan is... bad. "What does it mean, when 25% of children in Harlem have asthma, because of air pollution? We can do better, and help is on the way!" Grammatically, that just sucks. Things are going badly, and that means... help is on the way? I know what he wanted to say, but I don't think that's what he did say.

"We value jobs, that actually pay you more than the jobs you lost!" Kind of a silly statement. I mean, getting jobs back, ok. But kind of an unserious, pie in the sky thing to say.

"Close the tax loopholes that encourage companies to send jobs overseas!" Uh... tax loopholes? I think it's the cheap labor, John.

In the bits I've seen (health care, jobs, etc), he's done a good job of selling the center-left policies (albeit very, very vaguely) that will appeal to the undecideds.

"Health care is not a privlege for the wealthy, and the connected, and the elected... it is a right..." You can get health care working 20 hours a week at Starbucks. Complete BS, but I imagine it'll sell.

Kerry also works in a Saudi reference. Good way to target a popular issue (foreign oil) while catering to the Moore crowd (omg saudi conspiracy).

This is rapidly turning into a blog, so I'll stop now, but I must say:

This closing remark addressed to Bush is absolutely craven. Fresh off the most raving, angry and divisive primary season I've witnessed in my short life he's exhorting BUSH not to be "divisive." IMO, he's hitting all the right notes; it is, however, complete and utter bullshit. What will the undecideds think?

"I see us as one America, red white and blue!"
-John Kerry
"There are two Americas..."
-John Edwards

WTG, John.

Man, can't resist the edit: I think he's kicking some ass, rhetorically, here. "What if we have a president who believes in science...!" Might be a little over the edge. The substance is absolutely lacking, but I never thought John Kerry had it in him to deliver nothing in such an appealing fashion.

Also, interesting that he now claims to have learned a lot of great values in Vietnam. Whatever happened to raping and pillaging?

My verdict, here: Rhetorically terrific, substantially terrible. I fear, however, that the former will outweight the latter in public perception.


(edited by PalpatineW on 29.7.04 2255)
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OlFuzzyBastard
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#2 Posted on 29.7.04 2207.39
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2208.01
I thought it was a great speech, but it needed more fucking balloons.
Big Bad
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#3 Posted on 29.7.04 2211.09
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2211.10
Yeah, what the hell was all that balloon nonsense at the end? And the idiot CNN talking head "Well, gee, remember in 1980 when Jimmy Carter's balloons didn't come down, that was a bad omen." Give me a break.

Bruce Springsteen to start, U2 to end....hell, that's enough to sell me. :)
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#4 Posted on 29.7.04 2217.44
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2218.12
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    I thought it was a great speech, but it needed more fucking balloons.


100,000 (as per Rather) not enough for ya?

MoeGates
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#5 Posted on 29.7.04 2223.57
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2225.02
"We value jobs, that actually pay you more than the jobs you lost!" Kind of a silly statement. I mean, getting jobs back, ok. But kind of an unserious, pie in the sky thing to say.

Wow. It's pie-in-the-sky to expect Americans to get better paying jobs. And we're the pessimists.

IMO, he's hitting all the right notes; it is, however, complete and utter bullshit.

Welcome to politics.

I'd imagine that unless Kerry pulled a serious swerve at the convention - like becomeing a Republican - you'd probably find it lacking in substance.

I thought it was good in parts, bad in parts. Shakey beginning, then he got rolling, hit another shakey spot, but then a I thought he ended strong. Line of the night (IMHO) was quoting Lincoln about "I won't say that God is on our side, I will humbly pray that we our on God's side."

All these speeches and such I don't think are really such a test, not do I think they're that significant, not do I think they're that tough to nail. You can tell all everyone is thinking during the whole thing is "just don't fuck up too much."
OlFuzzyBastard
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#6 Posted on 29.7.04 2238.59
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2239.56
    Originally posted by Bullitt
      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      I thought it was a great speech, but it needed more fucking balloons.


    100,000 (as per Rather) not enough for ya?




Ah, you missed the highlight of the night on CNN - after Kerry's speech, they accidently turned the mic of the campaign organizer on who, unaware he was being broadcast internationally, grew increasingly dismayed about the balloons inability to entirely fall from the ceiling and, eventually, yelled "What the fuck are you people doing up there?".

His mic was cut shortly after.
DrDirt
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#7 Posted on 29.7.04 2239.32
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2241.12
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    I thought it was good in parts, bad in parts. Shakey beginning, then he got rolling, hit another shakey spot, but then a I thought he ended strong. Line of the night (IMHO) was quoting Lincoln about "I won't say that God is on our side, I will humbly pray that we our on God's side."

    All these speeches and such I don't think are really such a test, not do I think they're that significant, not do I think they're that tough to nail. You can tell all everyone is thinking during the whole thing is "just don't fuck up too much."


Agreed. He is getting better but they needed to work on his pacing and pausing. Love them or hate them Reagan and Clinton are light years ahead of all of them but Edwards.

And I don't think most of us pay that much attention to the speech unless there is a major gaff or such.

You've gotta love it when Dems quote Reps and vice versa.
rockstar
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#8 Posted on 29.7.04 2239.49
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2241.34
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    You can get health care working 20 hours a week at Starbucks.


I've never worked at a Starbucks, so that may be true, but I have yet to work anywhere that gave heath care options to anyone other than employees considered full-time and I doubt anyone clocking less than 30 hours a week at a Starbucks could actually afford the health care offered unless that's their second job and they're working it for the sole purpose of getting that insurance.

Also, Re: OlFuzzy's comments - http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc.mp3

(edited by rockstar on 29.7.04 2349)
PalpatineW
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#9 Posted on 29.7.04 2251.16
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2251.41
    Originally posted by rockstar
      Originally posted by PalpatineW
      You can get health care working 20 hours a week at Starbucks.


    I've never worked at a Starbucks, so that may be true, but I have yet to work anywhere that gave heath care options to anyone other than employees considered full-time and I doubt anyone clocking less than 30 hours a week at a Starbucks could actually afford the health care offered unless that's their second job and they're working it for the sole purpose of getting that insurance.


You're talking to a man thick in the running for Starbucks' employment, my good sir.

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    "We value jobs, that actually pay you more than the jobs you lost!" Kind of a silly statement. I mean, getting jobs back, ok. But kind of an unserious, pie in the sky thing to say.

    Wow. It's pie-in-the-sky to expect Americans to get better paying jobs. And we're the pessimists.


Getting jobs back, sure. It just seems to be overkill to say "not only will we get your job back, we'll get you promoted!" It's not unrealistic to expect Americans to get better jobs; it's unrealistic to expect John Kerry (or any president) to have an active role in getting them for us.

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    I'd imagine that unless Kerry pulled a serious swerve at the convention - like becomeing a Republican - you'd probably find it lacking in substance.


Well, he more or less did. He was positively running to the right on national security. Gone was the war protestor; here was a veteran shaped by service. I understand that they want to emphasize his service in a positive light; it certainly is an asset. However, up until now the lessons he had drawn from Vietnam were very different from the ones he seems to have drawn lately. It's an about-face; it looks great on camera, but I think it's rather empty. Was it a band of rapists, or a band of brothers? Kerry can't make up his mind. Again, I think he looked great, but this is what I mean when I say it was lacking in substance. He said everything he had to, but I think he meant very little of it, with the exception of his sort of core Dem. issues (health care, jobs, whatever).
EddieBurkett
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#10 Posted on 29.7.04 2318.35
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2318.52
I think you're taking some of his rhetoric either a little too literally or out of context here, Palpatine.


    Catching the tail end of the speech, this call-and-response business with the "help is on the way" slogan is... bad. "What does it mean, when 25% of children in Harlem have asthma, because of air pollution? We can do better, and help is on the way!" Grammatically, that just sucks. Things are going badly, and that means... help is on the way? I know what he wanted to say, but I don't think that's what he did say.


The "What does it mean" is rhetorical, and the next line is not the answer. He's saying "What does it mean that something bad is happening?" Then he's saying that help is on the way. Perhaps there should have been more of a pause there to reflect that this is not a causality.


    "I see us as one America, red white and blue!"
    -John Kerry
    "There are two Americas..."
    -John Edwards

    WTG, John.


Edwards is saying that there ARE two Americas. Kerry is saying that he envisions us as one. We may be divided, but we don't have to be, and we shouldn't be.

I thought the line about the Saudis was perfectly valid. I agree with you that the tax loopholes leading to outsourcing was dumb. In my opinion, I don't see anything wrong (and think it may be admirable) to have a candidate with a pie-in-the-sky aspiration == you never know, he may make the higher paying job stuff happen (or he may not). Your Starbucks scenario seems to be the exception more than the rule.

Overall, I was able to watch it without getting irritated and flipping away. That's more than I can say than about Clinton, Gore, or Bush.


OMEGA
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#11 Posted on 29.7.04 2354.04
Reposted on: 29.7.11 2354.56
When I heard the director I thought "This isn't right." Then I heard "Where the hell are the balloons?" and thought "Well, they should be cutting his mic after that." Then came "What the fuck are you doing up there?" I just couldn't help but laugh histarically.

As for the speech, I thought Kerry did a great job of looking human, which he needed to do. I thought the actual speech was really good.
Kane Is Ugly
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#12 Posted on 30.7.04 0102.19
Reposted on: 30.7.11 0102.48
The Daily Show is gonna have a field day with the balloon stuff. That was an OMG DID I JUST HEAR THAT moment. You got millions of people watching and some dumbass director starts cursing about balloons. Too funny. How many republicans are gonna be all up in arms over that I wonder?

"More balloons!" is the new "needs more cow bell".
Big Bad
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#13 Posted on 30.7.04 0141.37
Reposted on: 30.7.11 0143.11
What I found refreshing about Kerry's speech is that he actually took time to explain some of the stuff that he plans to do on the domestic side of things. I always love politicians who actually put a bit of detail into their plans, rather than simply stating generalities (Paul Martin and Stephen Harper, I'm looking in your direction).

This election will be the battle of The Man Who Speaks Too Quickly During Speeches And Cuts Off Applause (Kerry just isn't comfortable delivering a passionate address) vs. The Man Who Speaks Too Slowly During Speeches And Milks Applause For Too Long (since it takes a while for Dubya to read those eight-letter words).

The American television coverage of this convention has been deplorable, btw. CNN's coverage, in particular, has been horrifyingly bad. Bob Novak is the worst "journalist" in America. Wolf Blitzer and Aaron Brown both bring nothing to the table, and Brown looked curiously half in the bag for most of the affair. Why in the world would they mic the convention director in the first place? I hardly think it was an accident, since they had a graphic ready for his name. What's with the Republican spin doctors coming on directly after the speeches to rebut? Unless the Dems get the same opportunity at the Republican convention, CNN should have its broadcasting license revoked. Even still, it's just bad journalism; at least give the speech a little time to be digested before you immediately spring an attack dog on it. Thank God I don't get FOX News, or else blood will be pouring from my ears.

Journalism winners of the convention: the Daily Show. Is it just me, or do 'real' news anchors seem to be getting more hostile towards Jon Stewart whenever he's on as a guest? It could be possibly because either they don't get the joke, or else they resent the fact that the 'fake' news show does a better job of journalism than they do?
Joseph Ryder
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#14 Posted on 30.7.04 0244.46
Reposted on: 30.7.11 0245.08
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
      Originally posted by MoeGates
      "We value jobs, that actually pay you more than the jobs you lost!" Kind of a silly statement. I mean, getting jobs back, ok. But kind of an unserious, pie in the sky thing to say.

      Wow. It's pie-in-the-sky to expect Americans to get better paying jobs. And we're the pessimists.


    Getting jobs back, sure. It just seems to be overkill to say "not only will we get your job back, we'll get you promoted!" It's not unrealistic to expect Americans to get better jobs; it's unrealistic to expect John Kerry (or any president) to have an active role in getting them for us.


...why?

I thought it was a pretty fucking great speech. Even FoxNews kinda gave him a break afterwards, and if that's not a ringing endorsement I don't know what is.
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#15 Posted on 30.7.04 0550.29
Reposted on: 30.7.11 0550.56
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    The Man Who Speaks Too Quickly During Speeches And Cuts Off Applause (Kerry just isn't comfortable delivering a passionate address)
Apparently, they really really wanted to have his speech done by 11 PM ET, so he started to speed it up towards the end for that reason.

All in all, it was OK for the parts that I saw....

....but I will leave this convention with two things.

1. The Dems need to figure out the message. Is it "Hope is On the Way", "Help is On the Way" or "America Deserves Better."

2. The Democrats spents way too much money on signs. Everybody had their own fucking sign. It was ridiculous.
JoshMann
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Y!:
#16 Posted on 30.7.04 0727.18
Reposted on: 30.7.11 0727.20
    Originally posted by Grimis
    The Democrats spents way too much money on signs. Everybody had their own fucking sign. It was ridiculous.


And to boot didn't get their money's worth on the balloons.

It was a good speech to me, but it probably needed to be a GREAT speech for the benefit of the undecideds. Doesn't matter what the DNC delegates think or what I think, we were all voting for the guy anyway. I'm not sure that was the speech that reached the people it needed to though.

(edited by Blanket Jackson on 30.7.04 0842)
DrDirt
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#17 Posted on 30.7.04 0741.04
Reposted on: 30.7.11 0741.33
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    What I found refreshing about Kerry's speech is that he actually took time to explain some of the stuff that he plans to do on the domestic side of things. I always love politicians who actually put a bit of detail into their plans, rather than simply stating generalities (Paul Martin and Stephen Harper, I'm looking in your direction).


I would agree except that any specifics give your opponents ammunition. That's why pols normally speak in generalities and not specifics. It's also why govs make better presidential candidates than Senators or others already in D.C., you can't attack a record they don't have.
OlFuzzyBastard
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#18 Posted on 30.7.04 1044.34
Reposted on: 30.7.11 1045.08
Since Kerry started his speech with "I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty", I'm hearing that next month at the Repubs convention, Dubya's going to start his with "I'm George W. Bush and I can explain where I've been the last few months".
Grimis
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#19 Posted on 30.7.04 1103.53
Reposted on: 30.7.11 1105.43
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Since Kerry started his speech with "I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty"
Incidentally, that's up there with the bubble boy picture in the patheon of stupid looking John Kerry images...
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#20 Posted on 30.7.04 1422.23
Reposted on: 30.7.11 1427.22
Well, the Bush crowd is next - it should be fun to see how they put on a show...but what I am really looking forward to is the debates. I'm curious to see how Bush's folksy "go get em, and never mind why!" attitude plays against Kerry's stodgy "America needs me instead" platform. I have to say that I like(gag)Kerry's chances much better than I did Gore's this time 2K, but as easily influenced as Middle America is, I just don't hear the tried and true "tax cuts for the working man, health care for all" fiddle playing as loudly as Bush flatly saying "stay the course, it's not as bad as you are told" lines...

Personally, I can't believe Kerry had the nerve to march out his Vietnam buddies and wrap himself in the flag. The only things that kept my Dad from destroying the TV was it's too heavy to throw, too expensive to destroy and "who needs to hear Ma yell!!". Besides, how can I resist watching the convention with a couple of lifelong Democrats who would rather shovel the Elephant's shit than vote Donkey this time. GREATEST ELECTION EVER!

At least we all agree on something - fuck Bill O' Reilly for having the nerve to badmouth Willie

FLEA
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