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The 7 - Basketball - No Shaq trade rumor thread? Register and log in to post!
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avonhun
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#1 Posted on 9.7.04 1332.44
Reposted on: 9.7.11 1333.38
So it would seem that dallas is still the front runner although they dont have much to give if they refuse to give up Dirk and with Nash already gone. Many people still think he will play for the lakers next year. im really doubting that. But now talks with Heat are public, which looks like a terrible deal to me. Odom and Grant, i just dont think so. But also it was mentioned that they are looking through 17-18 offers for shaq. so who's got the goods? what are the other trades that are being talked about?
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Quezzy
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#2 Posted on 10.7.04 2207.11
Reposted on: 10.7.11 2208.27
Shaq to Miami is pretty much done. Shaq for Brian Grant, Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Shaq and both sides have agreed to it, so it's pretty much a done deal.
ekedolphin
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#3 Posted on 11.7.04 0302.25
Reposted on: 11.7.11 0302.51
If I were Pat Riley (and allegedly, he's got a better basketball mind than I do), I would not make that trade. If I were just trading Brian Grant and Lamar Odom, maybe I'd do it. But Caron Butler too? Screw that.

Two years from now, Shaq's gonna be demanding a new contract at about the same pay rate he's making now-- maybe even higher. I think his skills will have depreciated greatly by that point, because the man simply doesn't take good care of himself anymore. He'll be 34, and want a seven-year deal... I would not pay $15 million to have a 41-year-old Shaq sitting on the bench.

Meanwhile in L.A., Lamar Odom will get a chance to prove that he can handle the bright lights of Los Angeles, despite his bad experiences with the Clippers. Caron Butler is already a very good player and will continue to get better. Brian Grant will provide some good toughness for the Lakers' frontcourt, helping to somewhat offset the loss of Karl Malone.

And the Lakers will continue to do very well for themselves and maybe even be a championship contender. The Heat? They'll have shot themselves in the foot. Oh, they'll have a better-than-average chance of winning the Eastern Conference next year (they won't, but they'll have a pretty good shot), but unless Shaq finds his motivation, they'll be a crap team before long.

Final ekedolphin anaylsis, then: Good for the Lakers in both the short- and long-term. Good for the Heat in the short-term, murder for them in the long run.

So as a fan of the Indiana Pacers, a team in the Eastern Conference-- go for it!
redsoxnation
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#4 Posted on 11.7.04 0838.41
Reposted on: 11.7.11 0842.19
In the short term, this is a very good trade for the Heat. First, Shaq equals home sell-outs, which is something they have been lacking the past few years. With Wade, Eddie Jones and Shaq, the Heat have a good nucleus, plus they still have the mid level to bring someone else in (with the added benefit of playing with Shaq in a no state income tax state). They also play in a shitty division to begin with. In 3 years, Shaq will be on the decline and the Heat will be saddled with him, but 3 years in the NBA is a long time.
As for the Lakers, Grant is on the downside, Odom couldn't handle the bright lights of L.A. when he was a Clipper, so how does he handle it as a Laker, where people will actually know who he is? And, do Butler and Odom actually think they will be able to touch the ball as Kobe attempts to average 40 per game in his effort to show the world really revolves around him?

(edited by redsoxnation on 11.7.04 0939)
Quezzy
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#5 Posted on 11.7.04 0938.46
Reposted on: 11.7.11 0938.55
I don't think it's a bad move for the Heat. Sure Shaq probably only has 2 or 3 more good seasons, but if you win the NBA championship those 2 or 3 seasons, or even just 1 then it's a lot better than the Heat were doing. Plus Shaq will bring in some money and maybe once Shaq gets them in a good spot free agents will be more willing to go to Miami.

For the Lakers? I don't know, they got some good parts, but I don't see the parts they got gelling with Payton/Kobe. If they don't play as a team then they will be in shambles just like last year except WORSE players. Honestly with this team I don't see them being any better than the Spurs, Suns, Mavs, Kings, Grizz, Twolves, and Rockets. And that's WITH Kobe, without Kobe forget about the playoffs.
TheBucsFan
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#6 Posted on 11.7.04 1046.40
Reposted on: 11.7.11 1047.14
I don't understand the assumption that Shaq will no longer be dominant in two or three years. The man is still the most dominant player in the game when he isn't being a whiny little bitch. What signs has he shown to indicate that he is about to enter a decline? Jordan was dominant into his late thirties, and even showed flashes of brilliance in his forties with Washington. Why should Shaq be different? When Jordan returned after his baseball stint, I expected him to ruin his legacy, because his game was built on speed and instincts two things that usually leave players when their youth does. Shaq's thing is that he's big, real big, and that's not likely to change anytime soon. As long as he doesn't get hurt, and drops the attitude, he can be a great player at least five or six more years, I'd say. Those are big ifs, though, especially the second one.
redsoxnation
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#7 Posted on 11.7.04 1056.35
Reposted on: 11.7.11 1056.59
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    I don't understand the assumption that Shaq will no longer be dominant in two or three years. The man is still the most dominant player in the game when he isn't being a whiny little bitch. What signs has he shown to indicate that he is about to enter a decline? Jordan was dominant into his late thirties, and even showed flashes of brilliance in his forties with Washington. Why should Shaq be different? When Jordan returned after his baseball stint, I expected him to ruin his legacy, because his game was built on speed and instincts two things that usually leave players when their youth does. Shaq's thing is that he's big, real big, and that's not likely to change anytime soon. As long as he doesn't get hurt, and drops the attitude, he can be a great player at least five or six more years, I'd say. Those are big ifs, though, especially the second one.




The reason most people expect Shaq to decline within a few years is he has had foot problems and he is carrying 350+ lbs on his body. When you carry that much weight and have to go 100 nights a year, the legs and back eventually begin to break down. Look at the explosiveness Shaq had 5 years ago. He doesn't have it anymore. He's still dominant, but he used to be completely unstoppable.
TheBucsFan
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#8 Posted on 11.7.04 1132.33
Reposted on: 11.7.11 1133.31
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      I don't understand the assumption that Shaq will no longer be dominant in two or three years. The man is still the most dominant player in the game when he isn't being a whiny little bitch. What signs has he shown to indicate that he is about to enter a decline? Jordan was dominant into his late thirties, and even showed flashes of brilliance in his forties with Washington. Why should Shaq be different? When Jordan returned after his baseball stint, I expected him to ruin his legacy, because his game was built on speed and instincts two things that usually leave players when their youth does. Shaq's thing is that he's big, real big, and that's not likely to change anytime soon. As long as he doesn't get hurt, and drops the attitude, he can be a great player at least five or six more years, I'd say. Those are big ifs, though, especially the second one.




    The reason most people expect Shaq to decline within a few years is he has had foot problems and he is carrying 350+ lbs on his body. When you carry that much weight and have to go 100 nights a year, the legs and back eventually begin to break down. Look at the explosiveness Shaq had 5 years ago. He doesn't have it anymore. He's still dominant, but he used to be completely unstoppable.


I guess I attributed his drop off to a shitty situation in the Lakers lockerrom. I know his body takes some damage, but over the last couple of years, he and Kobe have been bickering back and forth nonstop almost, and Shaq hasn't seemed that interested in the team's performance.
A Fan
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#9 Posted on 11.7.04 1234.37
Reposted on: 11.7.11 1234.59
I'd say the Lakers are idiots for doing the trade. Shaq is still the best center in basketball, they need to trade Kobe before he heads to the slammer. I doubt if any team will take, but thats what they need to do. Shaq is the most best center in the league, he gives you at least a playoff birth and a good shot at the second round. The Heat guys will get pounded in LA for not bringing in the fans, money and numbers to the team that Shaq does.

If Shaq does leave, the Eastern Confrence will be the center of basketball instead of the West which is a good thing. I also think hiring Rudy T may have been the last straw for him since he was third on the list and really is not the caliber coach Jackson, Coach K or Roy are.
avonhun
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#10 Posted on 11.7.04 1308.00
Reposted on: 11.7.11 1308.06
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    I don't understand the assumption that Shaq will no longer be dominant in two or three years. The man is still the most dominant player in the game when he isn't being a whiny little bitch. What signs has he shown to indicate that he is about to enter a decline? Jordan was dominant into his late thirties, and even showed flashes of brilliance in his forties with Washington. Why should Shaq be different? When Jordan returned after his baseball stint, I expected him to ruin his legacy, because his game was built on speed and instincts two things that usually leave players when their youth does. Shaq's thing is that he's big, real big, and that's not likely to change anytime soon. As long as he doesn't get hurt, and drops the attitude, he can be a great player at least five or six more years, I'd say. Those are big ifs, though, especially the second one.


shaq has shown in the last 2 years that he does not have the desire that michael jordan had. even in the finals against the pistons he would sit outside the key play after play. i appreciate what shaq did for the lakers but he had to go.

as for the trade- its a little better than i thought with caron butler in there. i still think they could have gotten better but at least the lakers will be fun to watch next year with the uptempo style.
Battlezone
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#11 Posted on 11.7.04 1312.30
Reposted on: 11.7.11 1312.44
    Originally posted by A Fan
    If Shaq does leave, the Eastern Confrence will be the center of basketball instead of the West which is a good thing.


The East the center of basketball? Hardly. As of now, the Heat become instant contenders, sure, but for next season at least, it's still only a three team conference-Detroit, Indiana, and now Miami.

On the other hand, over in the West, you've still got San Antonio, Minnesota and Sacremento. Utah, Phoenix and Houston have gotten significantly better. And Denver and Memphis are young, and only going to get better. Only Dallas seems to have taken a step backward, losing Steve Nash and not landing Shaq.
Quezzy
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#12 Posted on 11.7.04 1314.59
Reposted on: 11.7.11 1315.45
It's like Jay Mohr said on the Best Damn Sports Show "it amazes me that somebody who runs and jumps for a living is that fat" It's obvious that Shaq is lazy and not determined to be the best he can, because there's no reason to not be in as bad of shape as he is when you play basketball for a living. Maybe the situation with LA will light a fire under him but still I wouldn't expect that to last more than a couple of years.

I don't know what kind of cap space the Heat have left now, but I'd love to see Derek Fisher end up on the Heat too and watch him and Shaq go further than the Lakers (and ex-Laker Eddie Jones as well).

And I have to agree with Battlezone, it's still about the West (no offense to the Pistons and Pacers). They lost Shaq, but they added McGrady, and while McGrady isn't as good they still have significantly better teams and players. The Pistons win and Shaq going to Miami might be starting so momentum towards the East Side, but the West is still far ahead.

(edited by Quezzy on 11.7.04 1117)
Firecracker
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#13 Posted on 11.7.04 2146.03
Reposted on: 11.7.11 2147.29
The Heat have several cap exceptions left - how much do you think Fisher would want? (I agree, the Heat could DEFINITELY use a player like him.)

On the Shaq trade - I love the fact we're finally getting a dominant center. I don't like giving up Caron Butler in that deal, along with Odom, Grant, and a future 1st rounder.. I can't help but think the Heat are giving up too much.
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#14 Posted on 12.7.04 0527.04
Reposted on: 12.7.11 0529.01
I always heard Pat Riley wanted to coach Shaq, you don't thing he would put himself back as coach?... Naaa he wouldn't. Would he LoL

RSnation gives a nice point about big men in basketball, history shows that once a drop happens it happens much quicker then other position players... But damn it would be hard to say no to Shaq. If he stays healthy, he's going to eat up (hehe) the Eastern Conference. With the realignment, Miami got Atlanta, Washington, Charlotte and Orlando to walk over.

(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 12.7.04 0627)
JoshMann
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#15 Posted on 14.7.04 0757.00
Reposted on: 14.7.11 0759.01
Shaq Trade Hits Snag Due To Odom's Lump Sum: Odom's Dealer On 24 Hour Standby


I'm OK with this, since I'm not sure I wanted Shaq at the price of Odom, Butler AND Grant. But I have a hunch that the longer this goes on for, and the more likely it is that Miami is going to have to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $6 million of Odom's lump sum payment, possibly Miami can get something taken off the table in this trade. Mostly because L.A. has a timeframe which they need to trade Shaq, sign Kobe and figure out what the hell to do with everyone else.


(edited by Blanket Jackson on 14.7.04 1053)
Reverend J Shaft
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#16 Posted on 14.7.04 1420.50
Reposted on: 14.7.11 1421.36
CAN YOU DIG IT?!?!?!?

Eh, just means Shaq will lose to the Pistons in the conference finals instead of the NBA Finals.



(edited by Reverend J Shaft on 14.7.04 1526)
The Lurk
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#17 Posted on 14.7.04 1425.03
Reposted on: 14.7.11 1426.46
Well, on one hand you could say that Shaq couldn't win the title this year with a STELLAR supporting cast that included the best one-on-one guy in the league.

But....

On the other hand, what you have now is a MOTIVATED Shaq which is a HUGE difference.
JayJayDean
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#18 Posted on 14.7.04 1429.45
Reposted on: 14.7.11 1431.17
    Originally posted by The Lurk
    Well, on one hand you could say that Shaq couldn't win the title this year with a STELLAR supporting cast that included the best one-on-one guy in the league.


If only that great one-on-one guy didn't insist on trying to prove he could play one-on-FIVE so much.

Also, Kobe was the ONLY "stellar" guy in Shaq's supporting cast. The Pistons exposed that.
JoshMann
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#19 Posted on 14.7.04 1449.30
Reposted on: 14.7.11 1450.12
    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    CAN YOU DIG IT?!?!?!?

    Eh, just means Shaq will lose to the Pistons in the conference finals instead of the NBA Finals.



    (edited by Reverend J Shaft on 14.7.04 1526)


The Pistons have SCOREBOARD on Shaq and I respect that.

The Heat aren't done this off-season by a long-shot, now that they have two starting spots that are empty and MAYBE Haslem can come in and take the PF slot, but they're not starting a high-school player at the 3, so that's probably where their big exemption is going towards.

It's nice that the Heat has a great center now who's possibly going to be uber-motivated to disprove everyone who's busy writing him off, but Odom and Butler looked like they were going to be the cornerstones of the rebuilt Heat along with Dwyne Wade and I hate to see them go.

I just hope he produces.

It's False
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#20 Posted on 14.7.04 1818.13
Reposted on: 14.7.11 1819.58
Can't express enough how disappointed I am with this whole trade. I'm pretty sure I've made my feelings known about it already.

On that note, I've got to say again that Kobe Bryant is one selfish son of a bitch and I hope he's satisfied. He may finally be the Lakers' #1, but I hope he enjoys it from the Western Conference basement. Because keep in mind, Gary Payton said he would demand a trade the minute Shaq left town and Malone would retire for the same reason. How about that? L.A. lost three future hall of famers, but hey, Kobe's gonna get the ball now, so I'm sure he's happy!

And on the other end of the spectrum, if somehow Kobe ends up on the Clippers, Mitch Kupchak needs to be horsewhipped out of Los Angeles ASAP for single-handedly dismantling a dynasty.

(edited by It's False on 14.7.04 1620)

(edited by It's False on 14.7.04 1701)
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