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19.9.07 0104
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Ric Flairs Book Register and log in to post!
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tsmstu
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#1 Posted on 8.7.04 0220.30
Reposted on: 8.7.11 0220.32
To be the man, the new book by Ric Flair (aka keith elliot greenberg) is out, and i picked up a copy today.

I suggest you do the same. This book is the closest (although nothing will ever touch) wrestling book to Mick Foleys first offering that I have seen out there yet.

If you read hogans book, I feel for you, I did too.

The Rock's book, yeah I know, I did too.

If you read Lita, Chyna, The Hardyz or DDP's book - you are on your own there.

This is a book that is a must have for all Flair fans and old school wrestling fans period. Stories about Flair's early days in the regional territories are pretty funny including Terry Funk and Stan Hanson gems. If you want to know what Flair thinks about Bruno Samartino and Bret Hart, this would be your source.

I haven't finished the book yet, but its pretty hard to put down thus far.

good stuff!
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CANADIAN BULLDOG
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#2 Posted on 8.7.04 0748.38
Reposted on: 8.7.11 0749.29
Even better than the Roddy Piper book? I find THAT hard to believe!

Seriously, I can't wait for it to hit the shelves here...
Aerosion
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#3 Posted on 8.7.04 0904.02
Reposted on: 8.7.11 0904.44
Source: Flair's Book (Slamsports.com)

"Foley has a cult following because of his contribution to hardcore wrestling," said Flair in excerpts from his book, which appear in July's RAW magazine. "But hardcore is such a small part of the history of this business. When I was training, falling off a ladder was not a prerequisite to making it was a professional wrestler. Being fundamentally sound was ...

"I don't care how many thumbtacks Mick Foley has fallen on, how many ladders he's fallen off of, how many continents he's supposedly bled on, he'll always be known as a glorified stuntman.

"Verne Gagne didn't fall off a ladder. Dory Funk Jr. didn't fall off a ladder. Neither did Wahoo (McDaniel), (Ricky) Steamboat or Steve Austin. Terry Funk was a great worker before he started doing that. Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho can do it and maintain their reputations because they're already respected as athletes.

"And what about people who never did anything else, like the Sandman? He's no wrestler. Hardcore became a niche for a lot of guys who couldn't do (anything) in the ring.

"I'm not saying that Mick Foley wasn't a star, that he wasn't a great attraction. But in my estimation, Mick Foley was not a great worker. He couldn't punch. He couldn't kick. In the World Wrestling Federation, he'd spend half the day sucking up to the writers -- because he's such a fan of himself.

"There's a difference between being a great performer and being a guy -- like Brutus Beefcake or The Ultimate Warrior -- who became famous because he happened to be working for Vince (McMahon). It's the same with Foley. When he hasn't been working for Vince, there's been no demand for him whatsoever. He's just another guy."


Goodness...
ekedolphin
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#4 Posted on 8.7.04 0925.20
Reposted on: 8.7.11 0928.01
Well... I can already hear the renewed backlash from Foley fans.

Let me throw my two cents in really quick, though. I respectfully disagree with Flair, but I believe he's entitled to his opinion. And I'll simply point to the numbers (the millions of people who switched to RAW the moment Schiavone announced that Foley was gonna win the title; the Rock/Mankind segment which is still RAW's all-time highest-rated quarter hour; and the fact that Austin, Rock and Mankind were on top of a WWF that was kicking WCW's ass during the Attitude era, for instance) to support my view.

And even if Mick Foley did spend half the day sucking up to the writers (and granted, I don't know if that's true or not), he's never actually... y'know... been the head of the booking staff.

I'm speaking as a guy who loved WCW and loves Ric Flair (in a fan-boy way, that is, not in a I want to marry him way). Flair's comments about Foley are just wrong, in my opinion. But then again, it's his book, and he's entitled to his opinion.

(edited by ekedolphin on 8.7.04 1028)
Phantom
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#5 Posted on 8.7.04 0926.29
Reposted on: 8.7.11 0929.01
You know, to bash Foley's work is one thing, but to compare him to Warrior and Ed Leslie? OUCH.
Juggalo101
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#6 Posted on 8.7.04 0937.21
Reposted on: 8.7.11 0937.44
I agree with Phantom there. The Sandman, yes he is not a wrestler at all, but there is no comparison to Foley there. On another note, the cover of Flair's book is just plain fugly.

And I'm pretty sure Austin did fall off a ladder once.
*loves being a smartass*
Matt Tracker
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#7 Posted on 8.7.04 0947.07
Reposted on: 8.7.11 0947.28
    Originally posted by Aerosion
    he'll always be known as a glorified stuntman.
Um, that's what you all are.

We can talk up theatre, pathos and morality plays all we like, but you're all paid to fall down and collide and batter each other in the safest yet most entertaining manner possible.

We love ya for it -- all of you wrestlers who choose this profession and work your asses off -- but no matter how much pageantry you apply, you're glorified stuntmen.
Sterling Golden
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#8 Posted on 8.7.04 0948.10
Reposted on: 8.7.11 0948.41

I bought Flair's book last night. When I got home I started reading. I didn't put it down until I was finished (3:30am). It is a fun read, with great stories that bring back some wonderful and hideous memories.
As for the Mick Foley material, it's barely 1 page long. While he attacks him as a worker, he put over the fact that he drew money. In Flair's eyes, that's what is truly important. Can you make somebody pay to see you?
If you want to criticize the book it must be read first. Snippets out of context don't do justice to the work itself. The theme that runs through Flair's career is that he'll do whatever it takes to draw money. So while he is critical of Foley's ability to work, his regard for Foley is mitigated by his drawing power.
Where does this book fit in the ratings of wrestling books? Foley's book was tremendous, but he seems to be the ultimate mark for the business. Flair's book is a great look at the business as a business by the top star. Piper's book feels like the truth.
Deputy Marshall
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#9 Posted on 8.7.04 1044.36
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1044.52
Let me preface this with I hold the same stance as ekedolphin, in that Flair is certainly entitled to his opinion. And yes, it's less than a page, and I honestly believe this has more to do with the fact that Flair was genuinely hurt with some of the comments Foley made about him in the first book, which themselves may not be warranted.


    "Verne Gagne didn't fall off a ladder. Dory Funk Jr. didn't fall off a ladder. Neither did Wahoo (McDaniel), (Ricky) Steamboat or Steve Austin. Terry Funk was a great worker before he started doing that. Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho can do it and maintain their reputations because they're already respected as athletes.


Pointing out a bunch of the old guard who never fell off a ladder is a moot point. It's part of the evolution of the sport, and there's plenty of things that wrestlers do now (and by that I mean just as simple maneuvers) that none of the ones he mentioned did. By that reasoning we'd have to disregard anyone who does a haracanrana, sharpshooter, DDT, etcetera. Yes, falling off a ladder is a stunt, but when it comes down to it it's just like any other spot in a match.

"And what about people who never did anything else, like the Sandman? He's no wrestler. Hardcore became a niche for a lot of guys who couldn't do (anything) in the ring."

COULDN'T AGREE MORE. Throw Ian Rotten, Jack Victory, and the rest of their ilk in there too.


    "I'm not saying that Mick Foley wasn't a star, that he wasn't a great attraction. But in my estimation, Mick Foley was not a great worker. He couldn't punch. He couldn't kick. In the World Wrestling Federation, he'd spend half the day sucking up to the writers -- because he's such a fan of himself."


I can't remember his kicks being any good, but Foley's punches weren't THAT bad. In fact, I always felt they were a little more realistic than most "stomp-and-swing" punches thrown by the majority of other workers. And when did growing up loving the business and continuing to love it become a crime? I'd like to think Flair is a fan at heart and loves the business, and he certainly carries himelf as such at times. I also have to take issue with the allegation that Foley sucked up to the writers, since there were many cases where Foley was the only one in the back who was willing to stand up to the writers (and McMahon himself), and wouldn't hold his tongue when an idea was brought to him that he didn't like.


    "There's a difference between being a great performer and being a guy -- like Brutus Beefcake or The Ultimate Warrior -- who became famous because he happened to be working for Vince (McMahon). It's the same with Foley. When he hasn't been working for Vince, there's been no demand for him whatsoever. He's just another guy." .


Wasn't Foley booked in a main event program with Vader in WCW? He was pretty over as a face and a heel there on numerous occassions, let alone his stints in Japan.

Honestly, this isn't intended to be an attack against Flair, and I certainly don't want to come off as just another Foley mark. Like I said before, I understand that Flair has an axe to grind considering all of the unfair criticism Foley threw at him in his book. I just can't see how Flair could forget so much and actually believe the things that he wrote about Foley.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 8.7.04 1148)
asteroidboy
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#10 Posted on 8.7.04 1121.17
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1121.40
The MindGames '96 main event was a pretty good wrestling match.
ShotGunShep
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#11 Posted on 8.7.04 1141.18
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1144.20
I am through about page 75. He has some great stories to tell, but the book is lacking overall direction. He chronicles his wrestling career but doesn't try to make a point in any way so far. I don't expect him to, but I think that is what made Foley's book so popular. But still, there are some funny as stories in that book.
Man was Flair wild.
BigVitoMark
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#12 Posted on 8.7.04 1359.31
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1400.34
    Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOG
    Even better than the Roddy Piper book? I find THAT hard to believe!

    Seriously, I can't wait for it to hit the shelves here...


It is out here, but you've gotta look for it. I found it at the downtown Indigo where I live, but it was in the biography section rather than the sports section. Maybe give a look there.

I haven't started reading the thing yet because I'm still working on Bobby Heenan's second book (which, while a nice story, is a big drop from his first). I don't wanna comment too much on a book I haven't read, but after seeing that exerpt I don't see all the backlash from the Foley fans. Flair gives credit for what Foley did as a draw, but gives a negative opinion of another aspect of the man's career. Funny, but Foley did the exact same thing in his book. Honestly, I'm glad to see someone with an opinion that differs from the company line, and makes me more anxious to read his book. If you wanna read a nice piece of clap-trap where everybody thinks everybody else is great, go read Hogan's book.
CRZ
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#13 Posted on 8.7.04 1438.27
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1439.13
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    the Rock/Mankind segment which is still RAW's all-time highest-rated quarter hour
Perhaps the highest quarter hour to compete with Nitro, but NOT all-time. I believe that honour belongs to the 9.1 overrun for the Rock/Shane cage match for the WWF Championship (slashwrestling.com)
SKLOKAZOID
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#14 Posted on 8.7.04 1525.06
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1526.47
I believe the Steve Austin vs Undertaker match from the night after King of the Ring '99 also had the "This is Your Life" segment beat, too. Don't have the exact number on me, though.
thecubsfan
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#15 Posted on 8.7.04 1542.29
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1544.17
ThisIsYourLife Rating Digression

09/27/99 RAW - off hand, I remebered there was a number next to the segment it but couldn't remember which one it was.

6.9 for the setup
8.4 for the home ec teacher to Yurple's entrance
6.8 for the end, a couple commerical breaks, and part of NAO/X-Pac/Kane match.

(Read the opening for a cheap shot at a enemy-later turned friend-later turned diabolical Scrabble foe!)
tsmstu
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#16 Posted on 8.7.04 1714.05
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1714.16
just got to the portion of the book where he discusses matches in the caribean...MAN OH MAN are these classic tales...talks about how he was paid $5000 for the appearance and piper was paid $500 and a spitoon of cocaine. Says piper "put the shit up his nose like Al pacino in Sacrface when the guerillas are storming the mansion"...


Great stuff.


Can't wait to finish.
Jay
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#17 Posted on 8.7.04 1752.01
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1754.32
You know, everybody's up in arms about Flair's comments about Foley (which I don't agree with, by the way, but, hey, it's his book...) but I felt he's been much harder on Bret Hart.

He says Bret was a "good wrestler" but not a "great champion." He says he never drew any money, but doesn't mention this was the WWF in 1995, nor does he once have a bad thing to say about Kevin Nash; not about his year-long joke title reign (which drew far less than anytime Bret had the strap), not about getting the book in WCW and immediately giving himself the title and ending Goldberg's streak (which was ridiculous in and of itself, but one of the few bright spots for WCW fans at the time), nothing.

It seems to me, and I've only got two chapters left, that Flair is very pick-and-choose with who he wants to say bad and good things about, and comes across as far too harsh on the Hitman (going as far to say that he, along with Foley and Hogan, were insane fans of themself and saw Meltzer's WON as the Bible).

All the negativity aside, the book is definitely better than all but two of the wrestling autobiographies I've read. But guess which two those are...
TopTenPro
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#18 Posted on 8.7.04 1845.48
Reposted on: 8.7.11 1847.57
I have yet to read the book; With that said I offer this opinion:

Foley was on level as an entertainer,but was not on Flair's level as a worker.

Hart was on level as a worker,but not on Flair's level as an entertainer.

Ric Flair came from the generation Hart grew into learning. Hart was great but give him the mic and he is a step above Benoit, but not a big step. Hart deserves criticisms as much as anyone claiming to be"the best there is,best there was, best there ever will be" that claim sets up criticism. Flair is fair, so as Bobby the Brian said at the Royal Rumble "Be fair to Flair"
tsmstu
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#19 Posted on 8.7.04 2156.49
Reposted on: 8.7.11 2156.49
just finished reading it myself...

i agree that he picks and chooses who he "bashes".

Bishoff gets it the worst. Infact the story about Ric trying to beat him up in the WWE locker room last year came as a surprise to me. I wonder how awkward life must be for uncle eric on Raw. Although i do think erics comment that "u can roll arn anderson around in shit and he wouldn't draw a fy" is hilarious...

He definatly kisses HHHs asshole the entire book.

Again, it is a must read.

Alot of the stories are ones we have read in other books like the sex lies and headlocks book, but this book also gives new perspective to them.

Unlike hogan, Flair admits to taking steriods.

The Kerry Von Erich Stuff is really eye opening.

foley is still the king of the wrestling books, but this is definatly the silver metal.


Stu

(edited by tsmstu on 8.7.04 2011)
sergeial
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#20 Posted on 9.7.04 1304.56
Reposted on: 9.7.11 1306.14
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Flair gives credit for what Foley did as a draw, but gives a negative opinion of another aspect of the man's career. Funny, but Foley did the exact same thing in his book.


I have to respectfully disagree with you on that point. While it may be true that each man gives "a negative opinion of another aspect" of the others career, it's pretty misleading to lump those "other aspects" together, and claim that they are equivalent.

The "other aspect" of Flair's career that Foley talked down was as booker, something he did for what, three years maybe? Not exactly the centerpiece of his career.

On the other hand, Flair claimed that Foley only became popular because Vince's publicity machine was behind him, much like Beefcake and Warrior, not because of any talent on his part. Besides being patently ridiculous, that's a lot like saying that the man's kids are ugly.

Still, I think it's all a work anyway, and Foley and Flair just want to feud the next time Foley comes in. Come on, would you really put it past either man?

sergei
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