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The 7 - Baseball - Astros get Beltran Register and log in to post!
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Whitebacon
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#1 Posted on 24.6.04 2104.38
Reposted on: 24.6.11 2104.51
A's get Octavio Dotel, Royals get prospects (sports.espn.go.com)


This stinks as a Cub fan, and this has the potential to stink up a couple of my fantasy teams.

(edited by Whitebacon on 24.6.04 1905)
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Packman V2
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#2 Posted on 24.6.04 2143.03
Reposted on: 24.6.11 2145.07
Talk about the Killer Bs:

Berkman
Biggio
Bagwell
Beltran

add Kent to the mix...and that's just plain sick.
estragand
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#3 Posted on 25.6.04 0139.57
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0140.31
It's strange how they supposedly moved Richard Hidalgo to give Jason Lane more playing time...that lasted all of about a week.

Gerry Hunsicker was in the TV booth tonight and mentioned "this is probably the last year we'll have this bunch together". So they're going for it all while they can. In that respect, it's a good move.

I'm curious, but what would have happened if Beltran had been a top 3 vote-getter in the AL outfield all-star balloting?
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#4 Posted on 25.6.04 0552.53
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0555.31
I guess I need to swap out my avatar now.....


I think the three players the Royals got (Mark Teahen, Mike Wood and John Buck) are all pretty decent prospects.

Teahen doesn't have the power you would expect from a thirdbaseman, but he's only 22 and it may still come.

Wood is not a power pitcher, more of a sinker/slider guy, who might be best served as a reliever. Maybe a Derek Lowe type?

Buck may not ever be a star, but somebody's got to throw the ball back to the pitcher.

So, three middling prospects are better than nothing, I guess.
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#5 Posted on 25.6.04 0556.19
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0556.32
I'm more surprised than anything else that the Astros were even in the ballpark. You kept hearing the usual suspecets(Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers) would be involved in the bidding, and that maybe the Cubs and Marlins would become involved. I'm just surprised that he wound up in Houston and that the Astros really did pull the trigger on moving Dotel out the door so Lidge could close without Dotel over his shoulder.
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#6 Posted on 25.6.04 0743.01
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0743.10
    Originally posted by Grimis
    I'm more surprised than anything else that the Astros were even in the ballpark. You kept hearing the usual suspecets(Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers) would be involved in the bidding, and that maybe the Cubs and Marlins would become involved. I'm just surprised that he wound up in Houston and that the Astros really did pull the trigger on moving Dotel out the door so Lidge could close without Dotel over his shoulder.


I think the Yanks and Sox were waiting til the deadline to get him cheaper. KC as much as said they wanted this done before the break. Plus whay trade him in the AL and deal with him every year.
Grimis
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#7 Posted on 25.6.04 0840.50
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0841.07
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    Plus whay trade him in the AL and deal with him every year.
That won't matter. With Boras as his agent, he will become a free agent. More than likely he will still sign with one of the teams that has big big money i.e. Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Orioles, etc.

What would be scary is if he wound up with the Angels...
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#8 Posted on 25.6.04 2217.45
Reposted on: 25.6.11 2217.55
Call me when the Astros do something to make their team relevant again.

Or, when they trade another closer, as is their custom these days. "Let's see...we need to shore up the bullpen, so let's trade our closer!" This reminds me of Bart's quote: "We catch up to the other kids by going slower? Cuckoo! Cuckoo!"

Perhaps that's unfair...it's not like this offense was really setting the world on fire, so I guess Carlos can be some help. Bagwell is still a factor, but Biggio's best days are behind him and Kent isn't THAT much of a threat anymore, at least not like he was in San Fran. Lance Berkman...well, I loves me some Berky. Nice hitter, that man is.

As for Pettitte...see you in September, when you're finally healthy and your team is staring up at the third place Reds.

Beltran...we all know the Red Sox and Yankees will battle it out for him, as George can't get it through his head that buying his way to a championship has won him exactly zero rings the past three years. After 2004, make it four.
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#9 Posted on 25.6.04 2257.34
Reposted on: 25.6.11 2258.05
PeterS, did you honestly say "tell me when the Astros do something to make their team relevant again"? While some of the things you went over in your post are true, the fact remains that the Astros have a lineup that rivals any team in the MLB right now, after getting Beltran. Throw in a very good pitching staff and you have a great team. They're underperforming right now. I would be shocked if they don't turn it around and make the playoffs.

(edited by bigredmachine29 on 25.6.04 2058)
PeterStork
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#10 Posted on 25.6.04 2309.54
Reposted on: 25.6.11 2310.54
    Originally posted by bigredmachine29
    the fact remains that the Astros have a lineup that rivals any team in the MLB right now, after getting Beltran. Throw in a very good pitching staff and you have a great team.


If you take out Chicago, Cincinnati and St. Louis, then their lineup rivals any team in the NL. Unfortunately, those teams are all in that pesky NL Central, and it's why the Astros may not be out of the race but I don't expect them to get much closer to the top.

As for their pitching, it's overrated, save Clemens who'll slow down in the second half (though he will get, and damn well deserves, the Cy Young Award.) Decent starters, but nothing that matches Chicago, St. Louis or Florida, and the pen is a joke. The fact that the numbers show them closer to equals (similar ERAs and batting averages to other teams) tells me they're far from underachieving; if they're matching superior lineups statwise, what chance do they have to do better?

(edited by PeterStork on 25.6.04 2318)
TheBucsFan
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#11 Posted on 26.6.04 0558.27
Reposted on: 26.6.11 0559.01
    Originally posted by Packman V2
    Talk about the Killer Bs:

    Berkman
    Biggio
    Bagwell
    Beltran

    add Kent to the mix...and that's just plain sick.


They still can't touch the Cardinals' lineup, the Cubs' lineup, or probably even the Reds' lineup. Keep in mind, even with the other four, pre-Beltran, they were still in fourth. The Reds I'm sure will come back to Earth, but the only way the Astros make the playoffs is in the (highly likely) event that the Cards' bullpen stop pitching as well as it has, combined with the (even more likely) event of the Cubs' history catching up to them and the pressure causing a late-season collapse.
cfgb
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#12 Posted on 26.6.04 0905.19
Reposted on: 26.6.11 0906.48
Or, when they trade another closer, as is their custom these days. "Let's see...we need to shore up the bullpen, so let's trade our closer!" This reminds me of Bart's quote: "We catch up to the other kids by going slower? Cuckoo! Cuckoo!"

Brad Lidge who's taking over is ONLY striking out batters at a 14+ per 9IP clip... He's better than Dotel - so I don't think the Astros have ANYTHING to worry about. His ERA and WHIP are phenomenal, and I guarantee you that in a couple months no one will be missing Dotel or Wagner.

(edited by cfgb on 26.6.04 1551)
Quezzy
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#13 Posted on 26.6.04 1008.41
Reposted on: 26.6.11 1009.35
You've gotta be kidding me, the Cubs might win the division with thier pitching but there is no way they have a better lineup than the Astros. And Griffey/Dunn/Casey does not equal Bagwell/Biggio/Kent/Berkman/Beltran. I would only take the Cards lineup over the Astros. And even though Pettitte is injured, and Oswalt and Miller aren't pitching as well as they are capable they are still the second best pitching staff behind only the Cubs.
TheBucsFan
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#14 Posted on 26.6.04 1516.59
Reposted on: 26.6.11 1519.27
Cubs:

Ramirez, 3B - .319, 14 HR, 54 RBI
Lee, 1B - .312, 10 HR, 45 RBI
Barrett, C - .292, 8 HR, 32 RBI
Walker, 2B - .289, 11 HR, 27 RBI
Alou, OF - .288, 18 HR, 47 RBI
Sosa, OF - .285, 10 HR, 25 RBI (25 games)
Patterson, OF - .277, 8 HR, 30 RBI
Gonzalez, SS - .244, 3 HR, 7 RBI (25 games, still on DL)

Reds:

Casey, 1B - .357, 15 HR, 54 RBI
Larkin*, - .303, 4 HR, 29 RBI (57 games)
Pena, OF - .268, 7 HR, 20 RBI (46 games)
Dunn, OF - .257, 20 HR, 46 RBI
Jiminez*, - .254, 4 HR, 22 RBI
Freel, 2B - .249, 1 HR, 12 RBI
Griffey, OF - .246, 19 HR, 54 RBI
Larue, C - .235, 7 HR, 25 RBI (48 games)

Astros:

Berkman, OF - .316, 16 HR, 55 RBI
Biggio, OF - .294, 8 HR, 30 RBI
Kent, 2B - .292, 10 HR, 51 RBI
Ensberg, 3B - .282, 0 HR, 26 RBI
Bagwell, 1B - .281, 11 HR, 38 RBI
Beltran, OF - .278, 15 HR, 51 RBI
Everett, SS - .273, 3 HR, 12 RBI
Ausmus, C - .241, 2 HR, 16 RBI

Cardinals:

Rolen, 3B - .341, 18 HR, 75 RBI
Womack, 2B - .310, 3 HR, 21 RBI
Pujols, OF/1B - .305, 20 HR, 51 RBI
Edmonds, OF - .272, 15 HR, 41 RBI
Renterisa, SS - .272, 4 HR, 30 RBI
Matheny, C - .252, 2 HR, 18 RBI (49 games)
Sanders, OF - .249, 12 HR, 35 RBI
Lankford, OF - .269, 5 HR, 15 RBI

Team stats:

Cubs - 73 games, .272 BA, 96 HR, 354 runs scored, .455 S%
Reds - 73 games, .253 BA, 88 HR, 356 runs scored, .423 S%
Astros - 73 games, .272 BA, 66 HR, 337 runs scored, .420 S%
Cards - 73 games, .275 BA, 94 HR, 387 runs scored , .453 S%

I'll take the Cubs over either of the other two, but it is a tossup between the Reds or Astros. I'll give the nod to the Reds because they score more runs.

EDIT: After adding Cardinals in, I realize that they aren't that far ahead of the Cubs. But in the big stat, runs scored, the Cards blow all three out of the water.


(Note: I indicated anyone who has played fewer than 60 games.)

* I think I have the right people here. I can't keep track of who's in the Reds lineup, with only a few guys playing more than 60 games for them thus far. Based on the stats I got off ESPN.com, I think this is the main eight for Cincy.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 26.6.04 1754)
redsoxnation
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#15 Posted on 26.6.04 2031.50
Reposted on: 26.6.11 2032.23
    Originally posted by cfgb
    Or, when they trade another closer, as is their custom these days. "Let's see...we need to shore up the bullpen, so let's trade our closer!" This reminds me of Bart's quote: "We catch up to the other kids by going slower? Cuckoo! Cuckoo!"

    Brad Lidge who's taking over is ONLY striking out batters at a 14+ per 9IP clip... He's better than Dotel - so I don't think the Astros have ANYTHING to worry about. His ERA and WHIP are phenomenal, and I guarantee you that in a couple months no one will be missing Dotel or Wagner.

    (edited by cfgb on 26.6.04 1551)





They'll miss Dotel and Wagner simply because instead of being able to turn it into a 6 inning game, with Lidge/Dotel/Wagner shutting the door the last 3 innings, they have to find a way to bridge the 7th and 8th before they get to Lidge, because the starters are not going to go 7 plus every time out.
Also, Beltran might not be completely off the market. Remember Cliff Floyd a few years back going from Florida to Montreal, only to get sent to Boston when Montreal fell out of the race. If the boys of Jimy Williams drop 8-9 games out and it gets to late July (at which point, Jimy will be looking for the other M on the unemployment line), the Astros might go into dump mode and try to get something back for Beltran other than draft picks if all seems lost.
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#16 Posted on 28.6.04 0846.35
Reposted on: 28.6.11 0848.22
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Beltran might not be completely off the market. Remember Cliff Floyd a few years back going from Florida to Montreal, only to get sent to Boston when Montreal fell out of the race. If the boys of Jimy Williams drop 8-9 games out and it gets to late July (at which point, Jimy will be looking for the other M on the unemployment line), the Astros might go into dump mode and try to get something back for Beltran other than draft picks if all seems lost.
I was thinking this same thing too, thinking that this guy could get traded again. In doing this, I am praying that George is only feigning interest (or someone told George "Sir, feign some interest!") to drive the price tag up on whoever gets him. The idea of Bernie Williams on the bench (because Giambi bruises like ripe fruit and has the physique of Rick Steiner coupled with the mobility of Christopher Reeve and has to DH on his best day) pisses me off. I am still trying to like Alex Rodriguez, can we wait another year or two before bringing in another Boras motherfucker?
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