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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Big Daddy Bitch
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mskj
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#41 Posted on 22.3.02 2101.18
Reposted on: 22.3.09 2102.37
"Rocky really needs to either turn Heel, or find a new Face role, because as it is, his current role does suck alot of heat from anything he gets near"

So we might have different definitions of "heat" as a wrestling term, but I really don't think Rock is sucking heat away from anything. Rock adds heat to matches and promos and all that. Everything the man has done with Hogan for the last month or so has had more heat than anything for a long time. Apologies if I am reading this the wrong way.

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#42 Posted on 22.3.02 2133.12
Reposted on: 22.3.09 2135.15
Hot damn my head hurts. The character the Rock doesn't like the character Kevin Nash. The character the Rock calls the character Kevin Nash a bad name. How in the high holy hell is this any different than every other wrestling promo in the history of history? Should the Rock be expected to clear every single insult with Kevin Nash, Kevin Nash's therapist, Vince McMahon, Stephanie McMahon, the Canadian Obsceneties Board, the Pope, and the Gaseous Weiner? Because Rhyno forbid the wrestlers actually insult eachother!


    Originally posted by LordOfTheSmarks

    Someone noted that they thought "Rock's going off again" at the Big Daddy Bitch comment, and nothing more. I, for one, was surprised that the comment did not elicit much more of a response then it did. Nash and Hall seemed awfully surprised by it, and the adlib of Hall holding back Nash wasn't convincing. To make matters worse, the segment absolutely lost steam afterwards.

    Many of you are saying that it's all right for Rocky to have called Nash a bitch because "that's what Rock does." If that's the case, then maybe it's not Nash that has to do the checking of the ego at the door. If Rock's "gimmick", his "thing" as you guys have called it, is make others look bad to Rock's benefit, then who is in the wrong?




(edited by Debaser on 22.3.02 1933)
jimimium
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#43 Posted on 22.3.02 2145.10
Reposted on: 22.3.09 2157.13

    Originally posted by mskj
    "Rocky really needs to either turn Heel, or find a new Face role, because as it is, his current role does suck alot of heat from anything he gets near"

    So we might have different definitions of "heat" as a wrestling term, but I really don't think Rock is sucking heat away from anything. Rock adds heat to matches and promos and all that. Everything the man has done with Hogan for the last month or so has had more heat than anything for a long time. Apologies if I am reading this the wrong way.




Thats not at least the way I had written it.. I'm not saying things with Rocky don't have heat.. I'm saying that when someone is in there with Rocky, more often than not, he takes _away_ some of their heat, has enough it doesn't add any to his.. and once they're out of the 'Rock zone heat' they've just lost a bit... it seems to be my understanding, that people just don't come out of Rocky _ever_ with more heat than they started with.
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#44 Posted on 22.3.02 2318.20
Reposted on: 22.3.09 2321.20

    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    I honestly cannot believe that people are actually sticking up for Kevin Nash. Un-fucking-believable. For NASH? A year ago most of us wouldnt have pissed on him to save his life and now some of us are circling the wagons cause he got called a "bitch." "He has beef" my ass. If the story is true Nash needs to suck it up.

    The net crowd never ceases to amaze me.....



So? Who cares who it is that's complaining or is offended. I agree that Nash has no real reason to complain, but to say that it's OK because of who he is or what he's done in the past is just plain childish.
LordOfTheSmarks
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#45 Posted on 22.3.02 2322.48
Reposted on: 22.3.09 2323.31

    Originally posted by Debaser
    Hot damn my head hurts. The character the Rock doesn't like the character Kevin Nash. The character the Rock calls the character Kevin Nash a bad name. How in the high holy hell is this any different than every other wrestling promo in the history of history? Should the Rock be expected to clear every single insult with Kevin Nash, Kevin Nash's therapist, Vince McMahon, Stephanie McMahon, the Canadian Obsceneties Board, the Pope, and the Gaseous Weiner? Because Rhyno forbid the wrestlers actually insult eachother!



It's not about insulting the other wrestlers, man. I'm sure that when Nash called Hogan a "son of a bitch" it was written into the storyline. It's about belittling the other wrestler, to make yourself appear superior to him, but to do so in a way not written into the storyline. The way the segment was going, Nash and Hall were very pissed at Hogan. They were telling a story, a very believable story, about how they had agreed to do X, but in the process of doing X, Hogan decided to branch out and do Y instead. This is believable.

What it is about is making the segment less effective. This is the sort of shit that Rock has been doing for a while. The segment becomes less effective, it becomes more centered around Rock as opposed to centered around the STORY that is going on. But hey, if you like to sing along with the Rock and have the segments based upon him, go ahead. I like my segments to have some sort of, you know, story, and not just be Big Daddy Bitch this and Turn your 33 inch nose sideways and stick yaddayaddayadda.

It gets freaking dull.
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#46 Posted on 22.3.02 2325.06
Reposted on: 22.3.09 2326.07

    Originally posted by Debaser

      Originally posted by Kokolums
      I think HHH lost some heat when in a locker room segment Rock told him he needed to smile more and made funny faces at him while all HHH did was take it without responding. I also think that perhaps beyond that point is where fans started booing Rock a little and those boos seem to slowly be getting louder. The HHH promo could very well be the "point of no return" for the inevitable heel turn.

      Put in a program vs any face and the fans will boo the Rock now. I think even against some heels like Nash or Undertaker the Rock is gonna get booed now. His face run is -over-. Movie or no movie, its time for his turn. It should've been a double turn at WMX8.

      Rock is ultimately gonna force the bookers to turn him heel.

      (edited by Kokolums on 22.3.02 1605)



    Que? You're saying a throwaway comment in a pointless segment cost HHH heat and turned the fans against the Rock (presumably for costing HHH that heat)? I reiterate: Que?

    As to the discussion at hand: If true, this incident is one of two things:

    1. A ploy by Nash to test how much he can get away with.

    2. A simple misunderstanding for a guy who's still not used to working with the WWF guys.

    "Big Daddy Bitch" is exactly the sort of thing the Rock says all the time. And standing on the entrance ramp/ring apron and making angry faces without actually doing anything is the sort of thing the Rock's opponents do in response all the time. Maybe Edge has to go get a note from his mother when he wants to cut an extended promo ripping Billy Gunn or X-Pac to shreds, but I doubt the Rock (or anyone else for that matter) needs some sort of pre-approved clearance to call their opponents a bad name. Nash either doesn't yet understand this or is playing games.



I think the pops for HHH definitely got smaller after that segment, yes. Its because it made HHH look like a dork. It -also- hurts Rock's face heat because the fans were really into liking HHH at the time. Both came out of that with less heat. Basically, one face making fun of another face isn't good for either. In this case, face Rock is finished. It was coming, too. We've had Rock shoved down our throats more than any other wrestler with his movie stint. He's overexposed. He's seems above the rest of the talent, and makes fun of them all. Even beat the crap outta Coach at WM. He comes off as a guy with a big head because he Mr. Movie Star and no respect for the other wrestlers. Of course the fans are gonna boooooooo.
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#47 Posted on 22.3.02 2349.35
Reposted on: 22.3.09 2358.56
Eh... I don't see it. I mean you're probably right that faces insulting eachother isn't the best idea unless they're feuding or something. And I can understand why people might think Rock's character is too much of an asshole to be a face (as I kinda have for a long time), but I don't think people who don't already feel that way are gonna change their minds because of one stupid line. And I especially don't think the fans are self-aware enough to say "HHH looks like an idiot so I like him less... damn you the Rock for making me like HHH less!!!"

HHH was never really that over as a face once his initial "ooh look, he's back" pop died down. As much as I love HHH in a perfectly heterosexual type of way, he (unlike Rock and Austin) really needs solid booking to stay over. He can sell an angle and a match better than anyone and make people love or hate him in the context of events, but isn't like the Rock or Austin where he can just come out, spout some random meaningless catchphrases, and get over by sheer charisma.

And honestly, Rock's taken a lot of time off over the past year, so it's hard to really say he's been shoved down anyone's throat. Maybe his act's getting stale, since unlike Austin he hasn't really changed it any in years.


    Originally posted by Kokolums
    I think the pops for HHH definitely got smaller after that segment, yes. Its because it made HHH look like a dork. It -also- hurts Rock's face heat because the fans were really into liking HHH at the time. Both came out of that with less heat. Basically, one face making fun of another face isn't good for either. In this case, face Rock is finished. It was coming, too. We've had Rock shoved down our throats more than any other wrestler with his movie stint. He's overexposed. He's seems above the rest of the talent, and makes fun of them all. Even beat the crap outta Coach at WM. He comes off as a guy with a big head because he Mr. Movie Star and no respect for the other wrestlers. Of course the fans are gonna boooooooo.
rockdotcom_2.0
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#48 Posted on 23.3.02 0215.29
Reposted on: 23.3.09 0216.06

    Originally posted by Yun

      Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
      I honestly cannot believe that people are actually sticking up for Kevin Nash. Un-fucking-believable. For NASH? A year ago most of us wouldnt have pissed on him to save his life and now some of us are circling the wagons cause he got called a "bitch." "He has beef" my ass. If the story is true Nash needs to suck it up.

      The net crowd never ceases to amaze me.....



    So? Who cares who it is that's complaining or is offended. I agree that Nash has no real reason to complain, but to say that it's OK because of who he is or what he's done in the past is just plain childish.




My point is that just a short while ago everyone was ripping Nash for destroying WCW, holding people back, being lazy for sitting on his ass, and lots of other shit. Now hes being defended because his "honor" was sullied by the Rock in a wrestling promo. Its ridiculous, plain and simple. I dont really care what Nash has done in the past to be honest, IF the story is true then he needs to shut his mouth and move on. Rock has done that same shit and much worse to every WWF superstar. Including Stephanie, Shane and Vince. If the story aint true (which I dont think it is) the way the net crowd sways back and forth is amazing to me. Ok Im done....
EastCoastAvenger
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#49 Posted on 23.3.02 1008.33
Reposted on: 23.3.09 1014.29
What the guys defending Nash should do is be honest and simply say, "I hate The Rock and will attack any and everything he does, no matter how small." I mean, that's what this entire thing says to me (GEEZ! Defending NASH?!). This is blown out of proportion worse than when Saturn went nuts on that rookie, not to mention it's a complete waste of time since the WWF has yet to confirm any of this.

BTW, saying someone's past deeds shouldn't affect public perception is just freakin' naive! You are what you do, and if you are known for backstabbing and holding more talented guys at your old job, guess what? That shit follows you and it is up to you to change that perception with your actions. Others may be quick to forget, but I say he's got some dues to pay before the old stigma is gone.
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#50 Posted on 23.3.02 1036.55
Reposted on: 23.3.09 1039.31
And I especially don't think the fans are self-aware enough to say "HHH looks like an idiot so I like him less... damn you the Rock for making me like HHH less!!!"

HHH was never really that over as a face once his initial "ooh look, he's back" pop died down. As much as I love HHH in a perfectly heterosexual type of way, he (unlike Rock and Austin) really needs solid booking to stay over. He can sell an angle and a match better than anyone and make people love or hate him in the context of events, but isn't like the Rock or Austin where he can just come out, spout some random meaningless catchphrases, and get over by sheer charisma.


I give the fans more credit than that. It just takes a percentage of the fans to sway the rest. And you're right, HHH's pop died down after his initial return....and I believe it was -because- of that Rock-HHH segment! HHH has proven he has the mic skill to get over during his DX run. Heck that was why he was chosen to go main-eventer in the first place. We all know the unspoken common trait of all kliq members is to look bored at times, anyway. Its supposed to symbolize "We are so cool and we aren't overselling any silly wrestling angle by pretending to fly off the handle all the time."
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#51 Posted on 23.3.02 1326.45
Reposted on: 23.3.09 1328.48
Not that I'm like super-smark here, but hell, thought I would add my two cents:

First off, (assuming it's true), I find the idea of Nash being pissed off about a single ad-lib hilarious. The basic concept, that Rock hurt either his character and/or his merchandising, is a riot. Kevin Nash worried about his character getting hurt? The guy who went to WCW and NEVER made anyone look good, rarely jobbed without contrived overbooking, and who never cared about anyone but himself worried about his character? Yeah, right, worry about the damage you did to all the people you no-sold and wouldn't job to first before you cry about Rock, Nash.

Second point, that Rock ruined the promo: dunno about that. I thought he was just being the Rock, you know, and at the core of the character is a lot of arrogance. I do think this is another chance for people to take shots at Rock, as proven by the comments that Rock's ONE PROMO is why Triple-H isn't as over as he could be. Yeah, one promo. The fact that HHH cuts shitty babyface promos when he's in character as "the Game" doesn't have anything to do with it. Nor does the fact that thanks to the booking he's feuded for three months with Stephanie (guest starring Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho) have anything to do with it. Got to be that one promo by the Rock that did it. To me, the current Triple-H character is custom made to be a heel-ruthless, humorless, and driven. The Triple-H that got babyface pops as a member of DX was a wise-ass, an insulting joker...hmm, kinda like the Rock now.

Anyway, if Nash is really crying about this one thing, he is rather thin skinned. And for the record, I do think Austin's behavior, if true, is pretty bad. But that's a post for another thread.
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#52 Posted on 23.3.02 1501.56
Reposted on: 23.3.09 1459.04
Two wrongs may not make a right, bu bad things happening to bad people is always a good thing!
I still say it's downright insane for one word to be spoken in Kevin Nash's favor regarding this situation. Let Big Daddy Bitch use his backstage stroke (which he seems to be testing now...) to fight his own battles like he did in WCW.
Yun
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#53 Posted on 23.3.02 1455.49
Reposted on: 23.3.09 1459.08

    Originally posted by EastCoastAvenger
    BTW, saying someone's past deeds shouldn't affect public perception is just freakin' naive! You are what you do, and if you are known for backstabbing and holding more talented guys at your old job, guess what? That shit follows you and it is up to you to change that perception with your actions. Others may be quick to forget, but I say he's got some dues to pay before the old stigma is gone.


Agreed. But to say "Why are we defending him? This is Kevin Freaking Nash!" is childish schoolyard cliquism. It's true that he has no legitimate beef here, but to say that he has no right to complain about anything ever because of his past actions is ludicrous. Call him a hipocryte all you want but if it was wrong when it was done by him it's still wrong when it's done to him. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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#54 Posted on 23.3.02 1627.51
Reposted on: 23.3.09 1629.03
Unreal. We discuss things that are reported ALL the time and NOW you want to question something? A story about Nash being an asshole backstage is now so hard to believe that it must be proved with a freaking recording of the conversation. Jeez, reminds me of people that demanded proof on Bin Laden.

I don't know which is harder to understand. The fans Hogan love fest or the net smarts sudden Nash love fest.
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#55 Posted on 23.3.02 1703.42
Reposted on: 23.3.09 1705.21
I do think this is another chance for people to take shots at Rock, as proven by the comments that Rock's ONE PROMO is why Triple-H isn't as over as he could be.

When two faces duel in a promo, -both- lose face heat. Its not hard to understand.

When face A takes a grilling from face B without retaliating, face B loses face heat and probably starts getting booed and face A loses face heat and starts to look like a wuss. Easy to comprehend as well.

I can remember the promos between face Andre and face Hogan after WM 2. What happened was Andre won some awards and Hogan kept butting in on Andre's time to flex and pose for the cameras while Andre got shoved to the back. Andre got pissed. For a while, it wasn't working. Both lost face heat. It took Andre doing very heelish things to set the crowd right and get ready for the WM 3 main event.
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#56 Posted on 23.3.02 1824.43
Reposted on: 23.3.09 1829.01
Triple H isn't as over as he could be because of his own caveman-like demeanor and grunting promos. The man was born to be a performance-enhanced heel, but he's playing the role of a face - and doing a mediocre job of it. Rock's promo had as much to do with HHH's current cooling off as Mojo Jojo does.

And one more time, just because I like saying it so much...
Big Daddy Bitch!

Thanks, Rock!
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#57 Posted on 24.3.02 0050.05
Reposted on: 24.3.09 0058.53
The man was born to be a performance-enhanced heel, but he's playing the role of a face - and doing a mediocre job of it.

If you saw or remember HHH in DX you'd never think he could be a main-eventer or tough. Remember HBK and HHH were pranksters! He -can- do it.

Note that the WWF didn't overtake WCW in the ratings with a prankster HBK holding the belt. It was when tough-guy Austin was champ that they became the #1 fed. What that might mean is the WWF bookers believe pranksters don't work as champs. It would explain why Y2J and HHH both dropped their prankster tendencies when they won their WWF titles.
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#58 Posted on 24.3.02 0115.59
Reposted on: 24.3.09 0125.37
Well, the reason Dx HHH couldn't be a badass was because he was still in his pre-roid explosion physical shape.

Personally, I think HHH was at his triumphant best from right around the hell Dx reformation up until about when he was revealed to be the mastermind behind the Austin car accident. At that point he had engineered a near-perfect ratio of smartass to badass scientifically designed to piss off everyone in a thirty mile radius. Once JR coined the 'cerebral assasin' moniker, though, he went into this full-tilt supervillain mode which was a decidedly inferior mixture. Now it's like he's not even Mr. Smartypants anymore, he's just a big guy who hates his wife and likes his dog and wins a lot. No wonder his pops are dwindling by the day.


    Originally posted by Kokolums
    The man was born to be a performance-enhanced heel, but he's playing the role of a face - and doing a mediocre job of it.

    If you saw or remember HHH in DX you'd never think he could be a main-eventer or tough. Remember HBK and HHH were pranksters! He -can- do it.

    Note that the WWF didn't overtake WCW in the ratings with a prankster HBK holding the belt. It was when tough-guy Austin was champ that they became the #1 fed. What that might mean is the WWF bookers believe pranksters don't work as champs. It would explain why Y2J and HHH both dropped their prankster tendencies when they won their WWF titles.

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