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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Womens division woes
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DMC
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#1 Posted on 19.3.02 1501.30
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1503.27
Does anyone else think it is entirely lame to have one of the brightest stars in the womens division, Trish, loose TWO nights in a row in front of her home country crowd? To LITA, none the less? They saved it by having Ivory come back, looking VERY good, and maybe teaming up with Jazz as a monster team which is cool. But my question is- if they are going to be monster heels together, at least set up Trish to be their main challenger. She gets so much pop when she first comes out and has been working hard enough to deserve better then she's been getting lately. She was set up after her DQ loss to Jazz to be a major threat, but then they totally ruin that two nights in a row.

They need to drop the Trish-Lita feud and build up some kind of Trish vs. Ivory and Jazz. If they do not give her a second title reign soon I may stop watching, unless they do a MAJOR monster heel Ivory and Jazz thing. But I guess as a casual fan I am starting to realize that McMahon cannot get ANYTHING right after watching Hogan turn face and ruin the NWO, so I'm not holding my breath on the womens division continuing to improve.

DMC
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#2 Posted on 19.3.02 1508.51
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1512.12

    Originally posted by DMC
    Does anyone else think it is entirely lame to have one of the brightest stars in the womens division, Trish, loose TWO nights in a row in front of her home country crowd?
Depends on how big a pervert you are and what audience the WWF wants to reach, I suppose. In high school and college, the loose women were always more popular with a majority of guys.
WTF13
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#3 Posted on 19.3.02 1511.57
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1515.52
What's more important is the lack of a quality midget division! Bring back the minis!
DMC
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#4 Posted on 19.3.02 1515.40
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1516.01
I think Trish could have that type of image if she wanted to. After all, that was pretty much all she was when she first entered the WWF (sleeping with McMahon, etc.) She (and almost all the women) just needs to find a better way of mixing her talents with playing it up in the ring and mugging to the TV cameras more. I think in front of her home town crowd she has been too worried about getting all her moves right (which made her look bad a couple times as far as I can tell) instead of bringing enough personality to the ring.

DMC
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#5 Posted on 19.3.02 1623.14
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1623.14
This post exists entirely in praise of WTF13's post signature. You totally rock, you old-schooler!
dfallan
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#6 Posted on 19.3.02 2032.24
Reposted on: 19.3.09 2042.32
I like Trish (And I'm canadian..eh?)
You know I can live with Lita Stinking up that 3 way match on Sunday and getting a beating and taking the loss.

That's fine.
But to Job Monday, in like two minutes, to Lita...
OY!

Of course now, with Ivory back, it may lead to some actual decent matches (If Lita can just get lost on the way to the Arena)
MoeGates
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#7 Posted on 19.3.02 2106.10
Reposted on: 19.3.09 2109.51
You know, the very fact that you posted a critique of the women's division, complete with current angles, fantasy booking, and character commentary, and used no less than FOUR names suggests that the women's division is in better shape than, well, ever.

Moe
dfallan
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#8 Posted on 19.3.02 2115.36
Reposted on: 19.3.09 2118.09
Yes...yes it does, but four people a Division don't make.

The biggest flaw with the Woman's Division, basically since....oh Wrestlemania 3 is that normally there is the Champ, the Challenger, and on occasion, one other in that div. That's it.

I liked Medusa as Allundra Blaze, but not when she only has the same opponent every PPV.
Its essentially the old 80's Hogan Opponent Formula.
Step 1 - Debut Guy (Kamala, Bundy, Zeus, Killer Kahn etc etc etc)
Step 2 Build up guy as a monster right away.
Step 3 Make it clear where he's heading (ie HOGAN)
Step 4 Have Hogan face this seemingly unstopable Monster
Step 5 Have Hogan Stop this Unstoppable monster
Step 6 Have Hogan move on to the Next Monster and allow this one to fade into oblivion.

The one saving grace in this was that one Monster was being built up while the other one was lossing to Hogan.

They have potential now, but I get the Feeling that we may just end up seeing Lita Fight Jaz on Raw, then Trish Fight WInner on Smackdown and so on and so on.

Personally I say Vince should look around at what female Talent is out there, and do the division right, or just forget about it.
DMC
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#9 Posted on 19.3.02 2238.26
Reposted on: 19.3.09 2242.44
I think most can agree it *is* moving in good directions, but yes I also agree they need more talent, which with women is hard to come by. However, I think if they each just develop their personalities a bit more then the division will improve even better. Take Jazz's beat-down of Might Molly a few weeks ago. It was cool but could have been done even better. I know everyone says this about every match but just hear me out. Jazz gives her the arm bar submission thing, drops her with a DDT, but why stop there and walk out of the ring? Have her drop a few elbows, gesture to the camera, pick up Molly and give her a tombstone piledriver, do more gesturing, etc. You know--REALLY get the crowd and the announcers heated up over it. That would have been a GREAT monster push for Jazz and would have made a Trish--Jazz showdown at Wrestlemania a lot more exciting then the 3 way match, even if Trish still lost.

I guess I'm nitpicking cause the monster heel Jazz is at least there and being done. It just needs more direction and definition in order to improve. And it would be great to see the others, including Trish, doing more to create an in ring personality. If Trish is going to be the "crazy bitch" chick, have her really play that up more often. Have her choke people down, run their faces against the ropes, stomp on people, Kevin Sullivan type of stuff. Or if she is going to be more of a good girl Trish, have her climb the ropes, do a "come on cheer for me" move, do the same when she wins, etc. And for God sakes, if Lita is going to keep doing this type of stuff, at least have her make some kind of eye-contact with the crowd or the camera instead of just shaking uncontrollably. We all know she likes to bang her head but just have it *mean* something as far as building a persona goes.

I guess when you think about this way too much like I am doing right now, the best total-package in the womens division right now is probably IVORY, for she does all these things the best. Too bad her voice is annoying as hell.

DMC
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#10 Posted on 19.3.02 2340.46
Reposted on: 19.3.09 2341.42
The fact that Molly isn't more involved in the division upsets me. I like Trish because of her dedication and improvement, but to hold back a good looking and capable wrestler like Molly only shows that the WWF isn't truely behind the division.

I'm not asking for 15 minute women's matches here. Just something that isn't full of blown spots and weak punches. Ivory, Molly, Jazz and Trish should be at the forefront of the division with Lita in there, but more for cheap pops.
bigwavedave
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#11 Posted on 20.3.02 0705.34
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0713.14
while we as Women's fans only recognize the legitimate 5(Ivory, Jazz, Lita, Molly,Trish), Vince adds Torrie and Stacy (and presumably soon, Nidia) into the mix.
Sharmell and Victoria have been training too, so hopefully we'll see them soon.
I won't be happy though until Tori, Daffney, Dawn Marie and Kimona Wanalaya are brought in to round out a truly competive division, equal to that of the CW/LHW div.
Iv'e given up all hope of ever seeing Madusa, Malia Hosaka or anyone else from W.O.W ever wrestling again.
evilwaldo
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#12 Posted on 20.3.02 0731.30
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0733.59
Here is my flaw with the women's division:

Ok, Jazz is on par with HHH in terms of title status. Both get to work both shows defending the title. There are only 5 competant female wrestlers active on the roster (Ivory, Jackie, Molly, Lita, and Trish) and they will be split up in the draft. That means three on one side and two on the other. Torrie and Stacey are useless with the exception of eye candy. Add Nidia to the mix and we have 3 women on each side. With only 3 women on each side is that an effective way to build a womens division?

If they are serious, they need to sign 3 or 4 women wrestlers for each side to give the roster a little bit of depth.
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#13 Posted on 20.3.02 0933.40
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0934.25

    Originally posted by evilwaldo
    Here is my flaw with the women's division:

    Ok, Jazz is on par with HHH in terms of title status. Both get to work both shows defending the title. There are only 5 competant female wrestlers active on the roster (Ivory, Jackie, Molly, Lita, and Trish) and they will be split up in the draft. That means three on one side and two on the other. Torrie and Stacey are useless with the exception of eye candy. Add Nidia to the mix and we have 3 women on each side. With only 3 women on each side is that an effective way to build a womens division?

    If they are serious, they need to sign 3 or 4 women wrestlers for each side to give the roster a little bit of depth.



Love the idea, lord knows there must be enough talented women out there who can wrestle (Draft G.I. HO) but here is why it won't happen. By putting, say 8 women on the roster as actual wrestlers, Vince might have to allow them matches and interview time on a regular basis. Right now it seems that the Women matches are just a way to fill up a little hole in the card.

I mean, MY GOD if Vince were to devote a full 15 minutes a show to the Women's Division we might be denied those amazing 25 minute NWO (hogan) Interviews, or the sure to return 27 minute Triple H opening comments.

Say what you will about Jericho, at least his interviews can be times with a stop watch (Not a calander)
Hey that brings up another interesting question, let's look at the 5 ladies (Trish, Jazz, Lita, Molly, Ivory) and say (for sake of argument) they're all decent wrestlers. How many can cut a decent promo?
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#14 Posted on 20.3.02 1018.46
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1021.02
Ivory is by far the best in terms of speaking ability. Why they don't put the belt on her and let her cut heel promos to build heat is beyond me.

Lita and Molly have decent speaking ability and Trish has been improving. Who knows what we will get from Jazz.

Sadly, it seems like the WWF's idea of womens developmental talent is Tough Enough.

I agree with you totally about the NWO, HHH, and Jericho interview comments.

MoeGates
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#15 Posted on 20.3.02 1046.32
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1054.19
I won't be happy though until Tori, Daffney, Dawn Marie and Kimona Wanalaya are brought in to round out a truly competive division, equal to that of the CW/LHW div.

Wait a minute. From what I see, the four active competitors in the women's division are about three more than are currently in the Cruiserweight division. Or maybe I'm just not watching enough Jakked.

Can we add Jackie to the "big five?" Or is she officially inactive with the WWF as a wrestler right now?

Moe

(edited by MoeGates on 20.3.02 1151)
DMC
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#16 Posted on 20.3.02 1232.50
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1233.30
I think Jackie should definately be added. She was one of the first female competitors to really show ability in my opinion, when she first debuted on WCW and everyone was like "My God this lady can wrestle!" So that makes 6 not 5. Torrie and Stephanie (and Debra and Terri) are not real competitors, just part of the glorified eye-candy that occasionally slaps it out (which Lita should be a part of, in my opinion). I agree that Ivory has the best talking/acting ability. I say have her and Jazz give Lita a MAJOR loss and beatdown next week or on one of the other shows (have it during a Lita-Ivory match with Jazz in Ivory's corner) and then give Ivory the mike while she's standing over Lita: "Do you see this Trish? Take a good look! You're next Trish!", etc. etc. Something as simple as that adds excitement, builds a storyline, and only takes about 10 seconds. Stuff like that is I think all we are asking for, not 15 minutes of womens matches and promos every show.

I still think there are female bodybuilders/fitness models who would make interesting additions to the division, even if they can't totally wrestle at first. Someone like Denise Masino or Debi Laszewski could be billed as another monster competitor who does typical simple monster moves and is a major threat to the faces when teamed up with the likes of Jazz or Ivory. Of course getting these particular women to be interested in actually being a wrestler would be another issue. But if they did it with Trish, why not someone else from outside the pro wrestling business?

DMC
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#17 Posted on 20.3.02 1935.38
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1945.19
I think womens wrestling has a definite place.

It was W.O.W. They apparently didn't make enough money to make it a feasible venture.

I think that answers why you don't see more womens wrestling. You should thank Vince for not burying it completely by taking it off of the one wrestling show that has nationwide distribution.

At least with the WWF keeping some minor form of a womens division going, there is hope that interest can build for it.
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#18 Posted on 20.3.02 2022.51
Reposted on: 20.3.09 2023.32
One of the saddest things about all this is that Jazz can really kick ass, and has no one to reallly go after her. It seems that she can "dumb down" things a bit, but as well as I think Trish has been doing, it's just not realistic to have them in a competitive match.

A Madusa or Sherri Martel from years ago would be interesting opponents, but time is cruel.

Since I never had the chance to see WOW...were there any athletes there that realistically would be good in a lengthy program with Jazz?
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#19 Posted on 20.3.02 2253.14
Reposted on: 20.3.09 2259.01
I actually find the women division right now a lot more interesting then the tag situtation (well and euro and lightwieght)

I love the effort, it is kind of sad that the most over women is the woman who puts the less effort of the bunch.



bigwavedave
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#20 Posted on 21.3.02 0541.42
Reposted on: 21.3.09 0541.52
(Since I never had the chance to see WOW...were there any athletes there that realistically would be good in a lengthy program with Jazz?)

I think that Terri Gold, Riot, Becky, and Jungle Girl had the most raw talent. Most of the other girls were booked too poorly and were in lame angles to really tell. Ice cold seemed to be really into it. The Zim's were at the PPV (my tape of it came out bad) so maybe we can get some opinion from them as to the actual talent of the late WOW roster???


(I won't be happy though until Tori, Daffney, Dawn Marie and Kimona Wanalaya are brought in to round out a truly competive division, equal to that of the CW/LHW div.

Wait a minute. From what I see, the four active competitors in the women's division are about three more than are currently in the Cruiserweight division. Or maybe I'm just not watching enough Jakked.)
On that point I concede. The CW/LHW div (to me) consists of Tajiri, X-Pac (he's back) Scotty 2 Hotty, Spike , Crash, Funaki, and Hurricane. I guess that the Hardy's (who are both under 225) aren't counted in the ranks of CWs, and everyone else is either dark matching, house showing or in OVW/HWA.

(Can we add Jackie to the "big five?" Or is she officially inactive with the WWF as a wrestler right now? Moe)

Jackie is a ref now (but yes, she should still be wrestling.)




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