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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - What is the strategy of this "split"? Register and log in to post!
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MoeGates
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#21 Posted on 19.3.02 1706.08
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1714.17
i can only assume that for the forseeable future vince will be the evil promoter and flair will be the babyface

A dime to a dollar Flair turns heel less than a month after the split.

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#22 Posted on 19.3.02 1853.58
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1853.58
Since Regal was doing Evil Bureaucrat in Suit again last night, I wonder if they are going to force him on Flair as Commissioner. That would take care of the heel authority figure for Raw without making Flair turn. I certainly enjoyed Regal much more in a desk job, so I'd like to see him return to it.

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#23 Posted on 19.3.02 1922.54
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1922.54
For me, it all comes down to: Would you like the top talent of WWF twice a week, or would you like to see half the company on one day and the other half on the other? Right now, I'd rather see the stars more often . . . but maybe they'll make me care for the split with some compelling booking, etc...

Given that there will be a draft, sure doesn't sound like Raw and Smackdown are going to stand for different things (e.g. Raw more story-based, Smackdown! more wrestling-based) . . . but maybe I'm missing something here. I really don't want this to become Nitro and Thunder.
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#24 Posted on 19.3.02 1926.26
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1929.03
So if the Undisputed champion can go between shows, what does he do when he's on the show that does NOT have the guy he's fueding with? For instance say the HHH is the champion and he is fueding with the Undertaker (which reports say is going to happen-ugh) who is in the Smackdown! group. So what is the point of HHH appearing on WWF Raw during that fued? I guess he could have matches against random contenders, but those would be too predictable if they happen every week and he is scheduled to meet Undertaker at the next PPV. Or he could do interviews about the fued on Raw to gain interest in the other show. Who knows. It will be very interesting to see how they write all this stuff.

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#25 Posted on 19.3.02 2007.15
Reposted on: 19.3.09 2013.44
Definately two champions. Otherwise it's just one company. Here's something to ponder:

What happens if ratings fall through the roof?

Will they can the split? I don't think so, this is a major, long term business plan and not an angle.

In the words of every Star Wars character ever:

"I've got a bad feeling about this"
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#26 Posted on 19.3.02 2149.48
Reposted on: 19.3.09 2154.12
The main motivating factor for the split is that the WWF's market research told them that they were oversaturating the market.

What's happened was that there is a large population of fans who fall between "casual" and "die-hard", and those fans, after the fad has dimmed somewhat, find that they can watch either RAW or Smackdown! and get the gist of the storylines.

It became unneccessary to watch both shows, and four hours a week is a heck of a commitment for a viewer.

Soap Operas follow the same pattern. There are large contingents of soaps who only watch two or three episodes each week.

The WWF realized this problem late in 2000, when the ratings first started to sag, but they were making too much money to consider dumping one of their shows, so the next best solution to the problem was to have unique rosters for each show.

They had planned to give one show to WCW after they bought them, but there was just too much negativity associated with the brand name. The Alliance had half its history tied up in bankruptcy court, so they realized that giving a show to WCW was a lost cause.

It was still a good business move, since they got it for next to nothing (less than Hogan, Flair, Hall, and Nash's salaries, combined), and they got the library.

But they still had the same problem with RAW and Smackdown! not being distinct enough.

The way they're handling the split has a lot of potential, more than simply giving one show to WCW would have had. There are suddenly tons of new motivating factors and sensible plot possibilities. And even if they don't get rid of Stephanie, at least she'll only be on one show.

I'm wondering what they'll do with the tag belts, but that could still make for a great storyline--imagine having a powerhouse team that can't be beaten, only they're in the division without the tag belts.

It'll be fun to have both shows aware of each other. They should make it a point to have McMahon ridicule Flair--bring back some of that old Monday Night friction.

They ought to have the Crusierweights on RAW, and let McMahon shoot on them on Smackdown! Have him refer to RAW as "midget wrestling".

I just hope that all of Smackdown! this week is like the exchange between Regal and Matt and Lita. There's a lot that can be done with that. Not to mention having various wrestlers suck up to either Flair or McMahon, and the plotlines that can result from those people NOT being chosen.

Those are my thoughts.

Later, Rudy

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#27 Posted on 20.3.02 0058.12
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0059.01
rudy rocks.

the two groups should DEFINITELY be aware of each other, there's some great smart ass promos to be had in that - something along the lines of the dx and nwo parodies of the nation and the horsemen, except the faction they're biting on is on the other show.

on the world championship - i'm firmly in the "one company, one champion" camp. having two groups fighting over the one world title will make for good tv and will make that champion The Shit.

we don't REALLY know how the ppv schedule will be (remember, we all thought vince was getting raw last week, if we even thought the split would ever happen). triple h could feud with the undertaker on one show and have some funaki matches on the other. or he could have another full blown feud.
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#28 Posted on 20.3.02 0119.28
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0119.57

It makes great business sense to keep it as one champ for the two. It adds prestige to the Undisputed Title, makes it worth more. Same with Tag Titles. Women's Title, I'm not so sure about. But it would make sense to allow the Tag Champs to move to and fro. That way, if the WWF wants to hotshot an angle with some really big names, they can put the Tag Titles on a couple main eventers and have them move over to the other show for a couple weeks and help that angle move on. Some may have problems with that, however.

Anyway, the one Undisputed Title is perhaps going to be the most controversial aspect of this. It just makes sense. Logically speaking, there will probably be one face owner (Flair, even if he wants to turn), and one heel (Vinnie Mac.) The idea brought up a couple times previously would work greatly. As an example, a face Undisputed Champion from RAW would be given slavish matches on, say, Smackdown! in Vince's attempt to prove his product's superiority while Flair allows him to take it easy.

This could really work well in many ways. It can create new upper level players (Edge, RVD) which in turn can help sell more merchandise. It can attract new viewers and encourage current viewers to watch a couple extra hours of TV. It can increase PPV sales.

Of course, it can also bomb like a mofo.
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#29 Posted on 20.3.02 1017.56
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1020.55
Yeah, I'm starting to like the idea of one world champion more and more. It's kinda like back in the days of territories. One ruling champion that all the groups are trying to unseat. Kinda cool.

As for the split in general. I think that with all the crap going on with Austin (if it't true) the split couldn't come at a better time. The reason: there are TOO MANY damn wrestlers! Especially main eventers. Never before in history has a fed had a roster this loaded. It's no wonder all these egos are getting bruised. I don't at all condone what Austin has supposedly done, but if you keep one fed with this many guys, it's going to start happening more and more. Too many guys that have had a taste of the gold now being pushed down the card is bound to lead to bad things.
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#30 Posted on 20.3.02 1023.44
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1024.36
Without creating a Chinese Wall between the 2 feds the new division will slowly take on the feel of the old one over time and there will be no distinction between the two except for the names of the wrestlers.

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#31 Posted on 20.3.02 1041.26
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1053.56
I'm still on the fence about this whole split.

On one hand it gives more wrestlers a chance to appear on tv and showcase their talents. The one world champ should also elevate the prestige of having the euro and ic belts.

On the other hand what about the guys that are already unhappy with their tv time and being pushed down the roster (austin?). There are stars who are getting air time on two shows rt now. After the split if your not the champion then your air time is cut in half (in theory).

You still have the same number of belts (only one world title) but of course you have a limited number of wrestlers fighting for each belt. I dont see the split allowing people who have been sliding down the ladder to be elevated easily again. I mean the world champ cannot take on everyone in a feud at once.

I'm sure my view of this will change again.

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#32 Posted on 20.3.02 1107.27
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1117.56
The goal of this split is so that the WWF can eventually produce two PPVs a month, making the not-so-smart consumer who orders everything, shell out twice as much and ultimately end up poor so that the McMahon family can end up rich. Except WrestleMania, but I bet they jack that up to $275 next year for the big HHH vs Austin, Rock, & Hogan (IN ONE NIGHT!) match.

It's also geared at promoting HHH as the new Top Dog in wrestling, giving him airtime on both shows since he's the champ and can do that. Assuming Stephanie loses the career-ending match, she'll return in a month and get facetime on both of those as well.

What the split will allow the WWF to do is run two shows on the same night, with both featuring top stars. They can run a big house show on the East Coast and SMACKDOWN! in Hawaii on the same night.

Another positive to this split is that it will prevent other wrestlers from facing each other. I imagine the atmosphere will be similar to that of being a fan in the late 80s/early 90s, where faces & heels were kept completely seperate, wrestling only one or two jobber matches a week, and only faced off at the PPVs or on special occasions like SNME. Except it'll really suck and the storylines will still go nowhere like they are now.

NEO
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#33 Posted on 20.3.02 1148.48
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1154.19
Yeah, I see how it could give the other talent t.v time. It would suck if they start showing 2 PPV's every month, that's just highway robbery. Unless they're gonna divide the price in half too.

There should definately be 2 seperate champs for each title, just bring the WCW belts back or make new ones. Then like at the end of the year there could be an inter-promotional PPV, just for bragging rights if anything, that would be cool.
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#34 Posted on 21.3.02 0431.48
Reposted on: 21.3.09 0437.18
if you do that you get back to the too many belts thing.

it would be passable if it were possible to re-start wcw but no one is going to buy that isn't the same company. (it would be like turner launching thunder was "nwo thunder", except they have a whole bunch of belts too.) the death of wcw is actually a caveat in this sense - everyone knows vince owns it all so they can just run with it.

there is HUGE potential in this storyline - imagine what the monday night wars would have been like if there were only one Belt and wcw and the wwf openly ackowledged each other. the rivalry would have been off the charts.

back in the day there were two ppvs a month and they were profitable. every fan didn't order every one and they didn't have to for the companies to make money. that being said, i think the fed would do well to lower the prices by the five bucks they recently raised them.

as to how the superstars might feel... is tv time their only motivation? when they start running two ppvs a month will the world title be defended on each of them? is travel such a big concern if they run raw and smackdown in cities close to one another like they do now?
NEO
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#35 Posted on 21.3.02 0816.34
Reposted on: 21.3.09 0817.19

    Originally posted by Notorious F.A.B.


    as to how the superstars might feel... is tv time their only motivation? when they start running two ppvs a month will the world title be defended on each of them? is travel such a big concern if they run raw and smackdown in cities close to one another like they do now?



...What?...

2 PPV's a month. More money? yeah sure. Even more pissed off fans? you betcha. Most PPV's show a rematch on the following RAW. Then they have another PPV with a damn rematch again. I don't wanna have to name any. Now have the nerve to raise the price? What?

You wanna blow 60 bucks a month on PPV's that's your bizness. But the rematch is gonna be on RAW with the same moves and everthing. To me, only a few really matter these days, very few. Like WM, survivor series, summer slam, etc.

If there's only 1 champ for two divisions, what the hell is everybody else fighting for? "#1 contendership"? Whatever. The former champ, would he be in the division where he lost the belts? I guess that's how they'll trade off. If this is the case, that's trash. There will be too many title changes.

Smackdown is the Rock's show, there is no way he won't go with Vince. Austin will be with Flair on RAW, and from there, who the hell knows. The point is that the Rock won't be on RAW anymore unless he wins the title, in theory.

RVD for example if Flair selected him and he lost to someone on Smackdown, is he now in Vince's group? He lost it on that show. And I won't even start on the tag teams, that's another issue.

I don't know if that's the way it's gonna work, that would suck. So is this gonna be a new division or just a new show? If it's just a new show, why do a draft, just make Flair the commisioner or something. This could be very good for wrestling or water it down. We'll just have to wait and see.
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#36 Posted on 21.3.02 1653.47
Reposted on: 21.3.09 1653.55

    Originally posted by NEO

    What?...
    2 PPV's a month. More money? yeah sure. Even more pissed off fans? you betcha. Most PPV's show a rematch on the following RAW. Then they have another PPV with a damn rematch again. I don't wanna have to name any. Now have the nerve to raise the price? What?



when they go to two pay per views a month - which won't be for a while - the wwf will get more money. what i said in my original post was, once they start with two shows a month, the fed should lower ppv prices back down to what they were a month ago. they didn't raise the prices because of the split, if that's what you're saying.

i don't see how this is going to piss off fans other than not getting (presumably) the rock and austin on the same card. how many times this year did that happen anyway?



    You wanna blow 60 bucks a month on PPV's that's your bizness.


when did i say that? i said wcw and the wwf both ran ppvs every month and they were profitable. i said not every fan ordered both of them and the companies still made money. did you even read my post? what?




    To me, only a few really matter these days, very few. Like WM, survivor series, summer slam, etc.


good for you, man. only order those and quit yer bitchin'.



    If there's only 1 champ for two divisions, what the hell is everybody else fighting for? "#1 contendership"? Whatever.


what are people fighting for right now? you know #1 contenders get title shots, right?



    The former champ, would he be in the division where he lost the belts? I guess that's how they'll trade off. If this is the case, that's trash.


that's the way i understand it, so yeah, it's going to be trash in your opinion. if the rock is on smackdown and wins the title, he'll also be able to appear on raw. when he loses the title, it's back to smackdown only. the only "trading off" is having the guy appear on both shows and that's not even a trade.



    There will be too many title changes.


you assume too much.



    RVD for example if Flair selected him and he lost to someone on Smackdown, is he now in Vince's group? He lost it on that show.


he's in whatever group drafted him. this ain't rocket science.



    And I won't even start on the tag teams


and i thank you for that.




    So is this gonna be a new division or just a new show? If it's just a new show, why do a draft, just make Flair the commisioner or something.


it's still going to be raw and smackdown - no new division, no new show. flair has complete control over one and vince has the same power over the other, so they're both sort of commissioners or something.

as for what i was saying in the part of my post you quoted: is tv time their only motivation? when they start running two ppvs a month will the world title be defended on each of them? is travel such a big concern if they run raw and smackdown in cities close to one another like they do now?

what i'm saying is there are a lot of variables here we don't know. let me break it down:

some people were saying wrestlers will be pissed because they won't be on both shows. is tv the only thing wrestlers are in it for? some might be happy they only have to do one show a week.

on the other side of the same issue, some people were saying the champion might bitch because he has to work two shows a week. that's bunk to me because that's the same amount he's working right now.

some people were saying the champion might bitch because he would have to travel from where they taped raw all the way over to where they are taping smackdown, assuming the shows will be taped on opposite ends of the country. if they run them from towns close to one another like they do now (raw in chicago, smackdown in rockford) it won't be an issue.

when the fed goes to two pay per views a month, some people were assuming the champion would have to defend on both shows. we don't know that yet. back in the "in your house" days there were plenty of ppvs where the title wasn't defended.

to quote kevin nash, "the fact of the matter is this": there's a bunch of shit we don't know about.
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#37 Posted on 25.3.02 0801.00
Reposted on: 25.3.09 0805.35
    Originally posted by Notorious F.A.B.



    when they go to two pay per views a month - which won't be for a while - the wwf will get more money. what i said in my original post was, once they start with two shows a month, the fed should lower ppv prices back down to what they were a month ago. they didn't raise the prices because of the split, if that's what you're saying.



    I don't think you know what the hell I was saying dude. How do you know what they're up to? Unless you work for the WWF, you have an OPINION like everyone else. If I think the idea of 2 PPVs a month sux, you don't have to agree.



    i don't see how this is going to piss off fans other than not getting (presumably) the rock and austin on the same card. how many times this year did that happen anyway?


    It can get worse than that, what if they split up Chuck and Billy on your ass? I'd bet you'd be a pissed off fan then.


    when did i say that? i said wcw and the wwf both ran ppvs every month and they were profitable. i said not every fan ordered both of them and the companies still made money. did you even read my post? what?


    There you go again, were you an accountant for one them. How the hell do you know? Again, it's just an opinion.


      To me, only a few really matter these days, very few. Like WM, survivor series, summer slam, etc.


    good for you, man. only order those and quit yer bitchin'.


    Why the hell are you quoting everything I wrote? I have a right to bitch about wrestling just as much as you do my friend. If you don't like it than don't read it.


      If there's only 1 champ for two divisions, what the hell is everybody else fighting for? "#1 contendership"? Whatever.


what are people fighting for right now? you know #1 contenders get title shots, right?


Yeah they get the title shots and so does everyone else. Are #1 contenders the only one who get title shots? What?


that's the way i understand it, so yeah, it's going to be trash in your opinion. if the rock is on smackdown and wins the title, he'll also be able to appear on raw. when he loses the title, it's back to smackdown only. the only "trading off" is having the guy appear on both shows and that's not even a trade.

Trade, borrow, swap, split, share, whatever. It doesn't matter from this point. You're just being a hater. Unless you know for sure how it's going to be, the way you understand it, is just that.



    There will be too many title changes.



you assume too much.


It makes sense. If the only way a wrestler can be on both shows is to have a title, what do you think is gonna happen? Please don't answer that.


    RVD for example if Flair selected him and he lost to someone on Smackdown, is he now in Vince's group? He lost it on that show.


?he's in whatever group drafted him. this ain't rocket science.



I didn't know the champions could be drafted, I thought they just worked on both shows, excuse the hell outta me.


    And I won't even start on the tag teams


and i thank you for that.


Haterstyle once again. Are you trying to make a point here or be a smartass? What's the damn point dude? You know HTML? You coulda just said that to yourself.


as for what i was saying in the part of my post you quoted: is tv time their only motivation?

C'mon man, how many wrestlers do you know or heard of that AREN'T in wrestling for TV time. You don't get to the '50,000 fans screamin for you' thing they all refer to without the What? tv time, What? tv time, What? tv time?
That's right, not the money or the travelling or the women, well maybe the women have something to do with it. Maybe I'm wrong but you don't have to try to front nobody, it's just an opinion, an informed one,....you JACKASS.

I'm sorry for bringin up ol shit guys. I've been busy lately and I had to retort. I don't know HTML to good. But I hope I still got my point across. Nobody likes to be dissed for having an opinion. I hope we can all still be friends. And thanx for the lesson in HTML F.A.B



(edited by NEO on 25.3.02 0641)
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#38 Posted on 25.3.02 1135.06
Reposted on: 25.3.09 1135.16
NEO, jeez, time to sit back for a minute and take a breather... and oh yeah, WRITING the word WHAT in your posts isn't "cool"- it just makes that post hard to read. And no, I'm not being a "hater" or going "haterstyle" on you- in case no one bothered to tell you, ya can't get away with "thuggin" on a board... there's no such thing as style on a board. It's all about your opinions and how well you defend them.

As for those opinions... *cracks his knuckles* Let's go.

It can get worse than that, what if they split up Chuck and Billy on your ass? I'd bet you'd be a pissed off fan then.

A nice ad hominem attack right off the bat. Splendid. Seriously though, with all of the injuries, movie breaks, and plot changes, splitting up The Rock and Austin really won't be that big a deal. And instead of seeming like old news, the next time they face off at a PPV (which, don't kid yourself, WILL happen... one of 'em will hold the title by the end of the year) will actually seem important. Bingo, mission accomplished.


There you go again, were you an accountant for one them. How the hell do you know? Again, it's just an opinion.

One doesn't need to have an accounting degree to look at the bottom line. PPV events cost money. We read about buyrates, paid attendance figures and merchandise sales. Do the math and you will find that the PPV's generated a HELL of a lot of money for their parent companies. It wasn't until WCW stopped selling tickets (and thus comped most of their seats) that PPV's actually lost them cash. ECW saw most of its PPV profits disappear into that black hole that was Heyman's books. But on a per-event basis, they made a TON of jack.

Why the hell are you quoting everything I wrote? I have a right to bitch about wrestling just as much as you do my friend. If you don't like it than don't read it.

Because it's just that much fun to shine the light of truth on ya.

Yeah they get the title shots and so does everyone else. Are #1 contenders the only one who get title shots? What?

Here we go with that WHAT again... *sighs* #1 contenders, whether officially recognized by the Fed or just generally understood by the fans (i.e. have an upcoming PPV match with said champion) are the only ones with the credibility to win a title match. Any other world title match is strictly time filler because the fans know they won't win the belt, no matter how entertaining that finish might be. A title shot can be a plot device but a title CHANGE will only go to a contender.

Trade, borrow, swap, split, share, whatever. It doesn't matter from this point. You're just being a hater. Unless you know for sure how it's going to be, the way you understand it, is just that.


Is this english? Seriously... NOBODY on this board knows exactly how it's going to be. That's why we'll be watching tonight. But it doesn't hurt to speculate on how it might go or how we'd like to see it go. Chill.

It makes sense. If the only way a wrestler can be on both shows is to have a title, what do you think is gonna happen? Please don't answer that.

Depends on how the ratings and PPV buyrates are going... but it WILL make a champion more responsible than ever for those things. If the fans are turning out to see the champ (either in support if he's a face or to see him lose as a heel), he'll be able to justify a longer run at the top. Conversely, if those signs are all falling, the WWF will be more tempted to make a hot shot title change. So don't expect Y2J to be holding those straps again any time soon.

I didn't know the champions could be drafted, I thought they just worked on both shows, excuse the hell outta me.

And I won't even start on the tag teams


and i thank you for that.

Haterstyle once again. Are you trying to make a point here or be a smartass? What's the damn point dude? You know HTML? You coulda just said that to yourself.

Look at the previous comment and consider how it might also be applied to yourself. Instead of going all "haterstyle" on someone who's educating you on the topic, why not just say nothing. After all, "You coulda just said that to yourself"

C'mon man, how many wrestlers do you know or heard of that AREN'T in wrestling for TV time. You don't get to the '50,000 fans screamin for you' thing they all refer to without the What? tv time, What? tv time, What? tv time?
That's right, not the money or the travelling or the women, well maybe the women have something to do with it. Maybe I'm wrong but you don't have to try to front nobody, it's just an opinion, an informed one,....you JACKASS.


They're in it for the jack and for the the pop. Yes, TV time can help you get over in those respects. But it can also be a major downer as someone can quickly become overexposed when we see them so many hours a week. And let's not forget what HeAT once was; a first-run show with actual angle development. Excess is just sitting there waiting to become something of meaning. If the WWF finds that they're not getting guys on TV enough, either of those shows can be quickly converted to serve the needed brand.

The point of all this is that you're ranting and raving about something... which in and of itself isn't bad; I do a lot of that. But you're also dead wrong in a lot of respects on the facts of the split and come off not knowing what the hell you're talking about. That IS bad.
NEO
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#39 Posted on 25.3.02 1353.35
Reposted on: 25.3.09 1354.15
..What?..

Oh you guys Screw the whole quote thing, that's too much trouble.

1st of all, thuggin? You gotta be kidding. What are you talking about dude? Obviously, you know what "haterstyle" is don't you Flash? So I won't need to "edumacate" you on the term. But believe it or not you are guilty "buddy".

I don't think I said anything to you. This post is like a week old. I was *brutally* and *maliciously* attacked for saying that this division would suck if F.A.B's assumption was accurate. Not the person, but the idea of 2 PPV's is trash and a couple of other things that are still unclear.

I didn't mean to offend but simply state why it would suck. Nothing personal.

In response to YOUR post "sir", I don't know what the hell the angle is with this split. That's why I wrote the post "jerky". I was looking for some insight, some OPINIONS on the issue. So how can I state any facts?

Unfortuantely, when I started getting some sort of idea of how or why they would do such a thing. I once again posted an OPINION. Not saying that anyone knocked what I thought (although it could of been taken that way), nobody thinks alike. So there's a difference of opinion. Was I the only one unsure of how this thing is gonna work?

Mr. F.A.B stated his own opinion about how the split will or should go down or "transpire". The TV time quote was abnormal but that wasn't a dis or "reproach" in my 1st reply. Be that has it may, it was taken the wrong way. There were not alot of nice things said in his reply. Over one quote? c'mon.

Now back to you Mr. Gordon, by what you said about #1 contenders. You mean the only people to win the World title were #1 contenders? I guess the words "shock value" is also thuggish.

How much money the PPV's make is "unimportant", why the hell should you or I or anyone NOT on the WWF payroll give a damn how much they bring? They're not gonna give any of it back. What's the point? No matter what, 2 PPV's a month by the same company is trash or "disagreeable".

You tell me the "facts" of the split that I stated that are not accurate and you won't have a damn thing to type. You know why? Cuz we don't know the facts, we just have opinions. try to make INFORMED opinions...WHAT?

So in celebration of the successful return of X-pac. "Why don't you put that in your pipe and smoke it...you JACKASS

WHAT?
Notorious F.A.B.
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#40 Posted on 25.3.02 1634.47
Reposted on: 25.3.09 1635.29

    Originally posted by NEO[quotemidThis post is like a week old. I was *brutally* and *maliciously* attacked for saying that this division would suck if F.A.B's assumption was accurate


son, you don't know what brutal and malicious is.
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