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The 7 - Baseball - What's Up With The Red Sox?
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Jakegnosis
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#1 Posted on 14.5.04 0004.23
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0004.28
Seriously. What the fuck?

Our defense sucks. Pokey and Johnny D are carrying the infield and outfield, respectively. Our offense sucks. We're leaving more men on base than the Army during peacetime, and our pitching, which has been awesome, is starting to degrade.

I'm not a hater. I don't start spouting doom and gloom every time the Red Sox hit a bad patch (Yes, I'm looking at you, Redsoxnation ). But we've just been playing terrible baseball lately, and we shouldn't be. I, too, would love to see Trot and Jesus... I mean Nomar, sorry... come back, but our second-stringers have been okay.

Bellhorn makes up for his poor hitting with a phenomenal eye that gives him the most walks in the league, as well as some damn good skills at second base. His outing today at third was distastrous, but what do you expect when it's the second time out at third for the poor guy this year?

Kapler is solid, not great, all around. He can play right field, but I don't like seeing him in the infield. He is spotty on the offense, but he's come through with some clutch hits so I won't get down on him. Plus, I like his attitude. He's the definition of a good utility player, but relying on him as a starter is iffy.

McCarty can hit when he's on, but I see him as more of a once-in-a-while replacement for Manny and a good pinch hitter late in the game.

Daubach is also squarely in "good pinch hitter" territory, but I have a soft spot for him, so I don't get pissed when Francona plays him a lot.

Crespo I dislike. He has speed, but he's the worst bat on the roster. He belongs in Pawtucket, or as a pinch runner ONLY, not starting games. He makes me miss Damian Jackson. Jackson was a better version of Crespo, and we shouldn't have sent him to the Cubs. Although the Cubs are one of my favorite NL teams (Can't pick between them and the Mets, the only team that hates the Yankees almost as much as we do. And has Mike Piazza. I fuckin' love him.).

Speaking of second-stringers, where are all these asshole bullpen guys coming from? People I've never heard of? Okay. My man Timlin, Embree, Scotty Williamson, Bronson, closer Foulke. Awesome bullpen. Malaska, whatever. But I've been tuning into the ass end of Red Sox games after work and seeing pitchers I've never even heard of. What's going on here!? I'm upset. We've got a great bullpen as stated above. Where are all these clowns coming from? If you need to boost the roster, for Christ's sake bolster the offense! We've got the lowest relief ERA in baseball, so why the hell are you tinkering with that? If it ain't broke, don't fix it, morons.

Fire Wallace. I hate his sorry-ass excuse for a pitching coach.

Thank you. I needed to vent. The Yankees are ahead of us in the AL East standings and we lost 12-6 today. I bought a half-gallon of vodka. Can you blame me?

Now discuss.
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Merc
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#2 Posted on 14.5.04 0102.24
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0104.04
I dunno about the whole team, but I picked up Bellhorn to fill 2nd in one fantasy comp. His average is up shit creek, but runs, rbi etc are pretty good for a 2nd baseman. I picked up Timlin in one comp too, he had 2 good weeks, but this week he's done squat for me. 0.1 innings today for 1 ER I think.
A half gallon of vodka is about a half gallon too much.
Jakegnosis
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#3 Posted on 14.5.04 0126.27
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0128.12
    Originally posted by Merc
    A half gallon of vodka is about a half gallon too much.


Hell no. Not when the Red sox are suckin'.

Timlin's my boy.

But what about Millar trying to fill in for Trot in right field? He doesn't have the speed or mobility to play that position. Millar is a badass at first base, but that's where we put big, slow bastards in major league baseball. He's good there, but for god's sake, Jason Giambi can play first and he's a fatass, steroid-taking slug. Millar's twice as fast as Giambi's lazy ass, but he still can't cover the ground that we need from an outfielder. You have to give him props for doing his best, though. Trot's a tough act to follow.

Bellhorn is a good second baseman, but he's no Pokey Reese. We need Nomar back, NOW, so Pokey can take his spot at second and Bellhorn can fill in when somebody needs a day off. He's great to have on the bench, but he shouldn't be starting ballgames. He needs to be theree to substitute for infielders that are having a bad day or to replace Pokey or Nomar when they've got the day off.

(edited by Jakegnosis on 14.5.04 0028)
SC
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#4 Posted on 14.5.04 0132.21
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0132.26
    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    for god's sake, Jason Giambi can play first


This is debatable.
Jakegnosis
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#5 Posted on 14.5.04 0310.24
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0311.26
    Originally posted by ScottieKStones
      Originally posted by Jakegnosis
      for god's sake, Jason Giambi can play first


    This is debatable.


I never said he could play first well. But he was the 2003 New York (vomit) Yankees first baseman.

All I was saying was that if his fat roided ass could play first base (as assigned, not as if he was any good), then most any pro baseball player could.
redsoxnation
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#6 Posted on 14.5.04 0645.37
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0645.40
    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    Seriously. What the fuck?

    Our defense sucks. Pokey and Johnny D are carrying the infield and outfield, respectively. Our offense sucks. We're leaving more men on base than the Army during peacetime, and our pitching, which has been awesome, is starting to degrade.

    I'm not a hater. I don't start spouting doom and gloom every time the Red Sox hit a bad patch (Yes, I'm looking at you, Redsoxnation ). But we've just been playing terrible baseball lately, and we shouldn't be.







Actually, its at 5-9 over the last 14 games. I started questioning the glaring holes after the first 5 games of this stretch and people believed I was crying wolf. Millar can't drive the ball, when Pokey Reese has more home runs and RBI's than him in mid-May, something is wrong. And this fetish of Francona to throw Malaska or the Rule 5 refugee in tied or 1 run games while he has a rested bullpen makes absolutely no sense. And, I still don't understand the need for a 12 man staff when most of the bench is made up of DH-1B type players. And Damon hasn't looked right out in center most of the year. Seems like he has had trouble picking up the ball.

(edited by redsoxnation on 14.5.04 0746)

(edited by redsoxnation on 14.5.04 0747)
The Red Sox Fan
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#7 Posted on 14.5.04 0737.27
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0738.04
I had an extremely bad feeling deep down inside when I called my brother, who has lived in the Philly area all his life, after Tito was hired. His laugh had a little too much "Ha ha, SUCKERS!" in it.

It's been suggested elsewhere that Nomar may not be in a big hurry to get back given the rumors of the offseason. Still, Achilles injuries are touchy, so he's getting a pass from me for now.

This team just needs to play better and more cohesively. Obviously that's easier said than done. The Yankees got their shit together in a hurry, but they are not invincible this year, even with A-Rod. I'm not panicking yet. Yet.
JayJayDean
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#8 Posted on 14.5.04 0931.49
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0932.30
The P-I has a rumor today that the Sox and Royals are trying to get the M's to get in a deal where they would send Freddy Garcia (our ONE solid pitcher this year) to Boston for BK Kim and the Passion of Damon and the Sox would send Garcia to KC for Carlos Beltran. To which, as an M's fan, I would only say "FUCK YOU MARINERS!" I mean, if we're going to trade Garcia, WHY wouldn't we just trade him straight up for Beltran?! So we can get BK FUCKING KIM instead?! FUCKING DUMBASS MARINERS!
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#9 Posted on 14.5.04 1027.21
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1028.18
The Royals can do better than a straight Garcia for Beltran trade. If they trade Beltran (and it's looking like sooner rather than later), they need someone like Garcia and a third base prospect.
redsoxnation
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#10 Posted on 14.5.04 1109.11
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1110.34
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    The P-I has a rumor today that the Sox and Royals are trying to get the M's to get in a deal where they would send Freddy Garcia (our ONE solid pitcher this year) to Boston for BK Kim and the Passion of Damon and the Sox would send Garcia to KC for Carlos Beltran. To which, as an M's fan, I would only say "FUCK YOU MARINERS!" I mean, if we're going to trade Garcia, WHY wouldn't we just trade him straight up for Beltran?! So we can get BK FUCKING KIM instead?! FUCKING DUMBASS MARINERS!








Out of curiousity, this is what, the 47th different variation of Garcia to Boston who then deal him off to another team trade rumor in the past season plus. At this point, I won't believe it until I see Garcia with 3rd team to be determined. But, to be fair, we'll throw Ramiro Mendoza in the package as well. I'm sure that would cause the fans to rejoice in the streets.
Don't want to start another thread, but I do have to ask this question: Is Jamie Moyer finally washed up?

(edited by redsoxnation on 14.5.04 1210)
PalpatineW
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#11 Posted on 14.5.04 1529.05
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1529.41
There's a great thread on the Sons of Sam Horn message board dissecting the Sox travel schedule and comparing it to other MLB teams. The poster in question, a very bright guy by all accounts, points out that their schedule has been quite bad, and abnormally so.

Also, that Beltran rumor is wacky. I've heard other variations, i.e. we'll throw Scott Williamson in. I'll agree the deal doesn't make sense for anyone but Boston. I'd miss Johnny Damon, though, and his Christ-like mojo.

There are also reports that Nomar actually tore his "Achilles sheath," whatever that is. I wouldn't question his work ethic, though; the man is damn near obsessive/compulsive.

Re: Malaska/DiNardo in close games: yeah. Ridiculous. Like yesterday, they brought DiNardo in first, THEN Embree. Then Williamson, on a ridiculous 10 days rest. If Williamson isn't hurt, then why are we saying him once every ten days, and the AAA crew every damn day? I have no problem with those two guys on the roster, but let's not use them in high-leverage situations if we don't have to. Firing Wallace seems like an overreaction though, Jake. We DO have the lowest relief ERA in baseball, don't we?
BigVitoMark
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#12 Posted on 14.5.04 1715.16
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1716.19
Why are the Red Sox struggling? Easy. It's cosmic revenge for Sox fans jumping all over the Yankees after hammering them in April. If there's one team that the fates are against, it's the Boston Red Sox. Sorry.

On a more serious note, Pieman, don't be so quick to turn your nose up at a Freddy Garcia for Carlos Beltran trade later this year. Everyone and his dog knows that Beltran is bolting after this year, so to try and hold out for a solid starting pitcher AND a good prospect might be asking a bit much.

A coup for the BoSox if they can land Beltran, and frankly the sooner the better. Waiting on a disgruntled SS with a bad achilles (as a Marino fan, trust me, those can be a bitch to come back from) probably isn't the best strategy. But hey, I'm a big fan of the Curse, so I'm perfectly happy to just sit back and watch the slide continue. Besides, once Damon shaves the beard there's nothing intriguing about that team anyway.
Jakegnosis
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#13 Posted on 14.5.04 2230.19
Reposted on: 14.5.11 2232.35
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    The P-I has a rumor today that the Sox and Royals are trying to get the M's to get in a deal where they would send Freddy Garcia (our ONE solid pitcher this year) to Boston for BK Kim and the Passion of Damon and the Sox would send Garcia to KC for Carlos Beltran.!


Johnny D!? Fuck no!!! How could we lose him? He's a friggin' icon in Boston right now, and he's a nasty, nasty center fielder. And this is besides the fact that he's my favorite baseball player now that Nomar's on the DL. I'm all for seeing Kim thew hell out of Boston, but leave Johnny well out of this. I don't want Beltran in Boston. He's good offensively, but we need Damon's defense out there to pickup the slack of Manny and the parade of clowns who have been playing right field.

I really, really hope this rumor isn't true. Who would be dumb enough to trade anyone halfway decent for Kim, anyway? And why would the Sox bigwigs want to ditch Johnny D? Bastards. Those bastards. I'm pissed off, now. Thanks JayJay. I thought my day was going suspiciously well. And I was so happy after tonight's 9-3 win too.
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#14 Posted on 14.5.04 2244.45
Reposted on: 14.5.11 2250.04
    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    Johnny D!? Fuck no!!! How could we lose him? He's a friggin' icon in Boston right now, and he's a nasty, nasty center fielder. And this is besides the fact that he's my favorite baseball player now that Nomar's on the DL. I'm all for seeing Kim thew hell out of Boston, but leave Johnny well out of this. I don't want Beltran in Boston. He's good offensively, but we need Damon's defense out there to pickup the slack of Manny and the parade of clowns who have been playing right field




Have you seen Damon's defense recently? He can't pick up the ball off the bat. He's lost at least half a step. If they could get Garcia to trade for Beltran for Damon, Kim, Top Prospect, they would have to do it before the Seattle GM sobers up or ownership fires him for gross negligence. Beltran can put up MVP numbers and he is entering his prime. Damon puts up decent numbers, but he is starting his descent. And, not only is Beltran better than Damon offensively, he's better than him defensively at this point.


Jakegnosis
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#15 Posted on 14.5.04 2326.07
Reposted on: 14.5.11 2326.23
So Johnny's slumping. So is EVERYONE ELSE on the roster. It happens to everybody in baseball. Johnyy hasn't been quite right since his concussion last year, but I guarantee he'll be back up to snuff damn soon. He's made some amazing catches this year. Did you see that sliding catch earlier this week where he hauled ass and snagged the ball when Kapler couldn't get it done? He one of THE best defensive center fielders in all of baseball. As for him declining: Bullshit. He's in a little slump, and that's it. Fuck Beltran. Damon is one of the most mportant men in our lineup, and I wouldn't trade him for some hotdogger from Kansas.

Kim still needs to get the hell out, however. I'm digging Arroyo.
Merc
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#16 Posted on 15.5.04 0113.16
Reposted on: 15.5.11 0115.44
    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    Fuck Beltran. Damon is one of the most mportant men in our lineup, and I wouldn't trade him for some hotdogger from Kansas.

Damon: 20 runs 2HR 21 RBI 5 Steals .276
HotDog: 29, 10, 28, 10 .309

Damon must bring a hell of alot of intangibles to not want Beltran
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#17 Posted on 15.5.04 0530.23
Reposted on: 15.5.11 0531.17
    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    He one of THE best defensive center fielders in all of baseball. As for him declining: Bullshit. He's in a little slump, and that's it. Fuck Beltran. Damon is one of the most mportant men in our lineup, and I wouldn't trade him for some hotdogger from Kansas.


Well. Damon is an above-average player, but at 31 in November he's going to do nothing BUT decline. Beltran is 27 and ENTERING HIS PRIME, while hitting the hell out of the ball and doing everything Damon does (including being a very good defensive center fielder) but doing it better.

You would be insane to not want your team to pick up one of the best players in baseball, with the opportunity to lock him up long-term (and keeping the Yankees from doing so at the same time), at the expense of a pretty good player that isn't going to get any better. Damon is an important guy in that lineup, but Beltran would mean a lot more to it. It's not like someone's asking you to give up Damon to replace him with someone from Triple-A; you'd be replacing him with a superior player.
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#18 Posted on 15.5.04 1255.26
Reposted on: 15.5.11 1255.40
Oh, for Pete's sake, we had a 'Red Sox stink, the sky is falling' thread started just ELEVEN DAYS AGO. You can still post in it, even.

Click Here (The W)

(edited by Big Bad on 15.5.04 1356)

Edited because I can't post a web address any better than the Sox can win a game.

(edited by Big Bad on 15.5.04 1358)
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#19 Posted on 15.5.04 1357.42
Reposted on: 15.5.11 1359.01
    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    Fuck Beltran. Damon is one of the most mportant men in our lineup, and I wouldn't trade him for some hotdogger from Kansas.

Johnny Damon is from Kansas!
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#20 Posted on 15.5.04 1427.15
Reposted on: 15.5.11 1429.01
Ya know, this could be part of why the Red Sox can't win anything. We're talking about a 27 year old MVP candidate on the rise in exchange for an average player who's most noticeable feature is that he looks like a hobo. To get something you've gotta give something, and the price on Beltran is only going to go up. Character counts, but skill counts for a lot more, especially if you consider that it's more likely than not that you'll have to get through the AL All Stars playing in the Bronx if you hope to go anywhere. Some might say that Damon can turn water into wine, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd claim he can hit with Beltran.
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