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The 7 - Random - Angel 05-12 - And Then There Was One...
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JST
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#1 Posted on 12.5.04 2326.48
Reposted on: 12.5.11 2327.55
As a viewer who's easily surprised by a show, here I was expecting a slow-burn Angel heel turn throughout the episode, but here they go laying it all out near the end. Next week should be awesome.

Comedic highlight: Illyria & Drogan discovering Crash Bandicoot.

Kickass highlight: Hamilton going T-1000 on Illyria.

Discuss.

Side note: anybody getting this month's Playboy with Charisma Carpenter?

(edited by Tod deKindes on 13.5.04 0035)
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#2 Posted on 12.5.04 2348.47
Reposted on: 12.5.11 2348.58
I thought it was a good way to get into the finale which sadly will only be an hour long. It would have been nice to give this arc another episode or two of evil Angel. However, with the need to finish the love triangle and being canceled didn't help matters. It does look like everything will end one way or another.

I know who is supposed to die at the end, but a last minute change wouldn't surprise me.
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#3 Posted on 12.5.04 2350.51
Reposted on: 12.5.11 2351.22
Well, at least there is a Crash game available for the X-Box. (did they learn from the Donkey Kong debacle?)

This episode was awesome. Angel's heel turn had me confused for a bit (I was so relieved to find out he was pulling an Angle circa Survivor Series '01!), but the way the revealed it... awesome! It sucks that he had to sacrifice that Drogan fellow, though.

The way this season is pulling together now, with all the villains returning for one last battle, is incredible. I haven't seen this kind of continuity since S1-3 of Buffy.

I'm surprised it never occured to me that Cordy could pass the visions with a kiss.

Ilyaria can't be dead, can she? We know that she's weak being in Fred's body, and we know that Hamilton can punch straight through people, but they wouldn't kill her like that, would they?

The scene at the end with Angel explaining it all, then calling for a vote, with Hamilton outside was just awesome. Can he see through the glamour? I have a feeling he will. Angel's going against what should be a group of the most powerful villains ever assembled. I don't think a little glamour is going to keep them from figuring out what's going on.

Next week is going to be awesome. Judging by that speech, if you're going to go out, go out with a bang.
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#4 Posted on 13.5.04 0045.51
Reposted on: 13.5.11 0046.20
I liked it, as usual. I just hope Illyria isn't dead, 'cause Illyria = hot.
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#5 Posted on 13.5.04 0159.39
Reposted on: 13.5.11 0200.24
Mixed feelings here. It's a neat concept and all, but hardly series ending neat. Maybe I'd be more turned onto it if I wasn't sick of the whole Illuminati idea (that's just me I realize). I had thought of Angel getting the visions, but then, when he never did, I forgot about it, so that was a pleasant surprise.

Honestly, I think Angel will be the one to bite it. He did say that they had to kill ALL the members of the Black Thorn, and he sure enough, he's got the mark. But I'm not sure, because

Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
Amy Acker's been going around doing interviews saying that the ending is going to be intentionally open ended to give Joss and the WB some wiggle room for negotiating who will be back for the possible September Angel TV movie
(note: the spoiler isn't a direct spoiler, just something one of the actors has hinted at about the ending)

I don't know...I was just hoping for something a little more...epic, maybe, for the end of the Buffyverse. The concept is neat enough, but any sense of closure feels rushed (whereas, at least with Buffy they were able to swansong the whole season, with varying degrees of success). This feels like something straight out of X-Files fan fic.

I still miss Fred, in a way. I've grown to like Illyria (no way she's dead, by the way, she may be weakened, but there's still a god under there somewhere), but I've really gotten tired of how listless the characters have been in her absense. It was fine for an episode or two, but when they're all mopey and grating (not just Wesley and Angel), it just sucks the enjoyment out of the characters. At least with her there there was some emotional balance.
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#6 Posted on 13.5.04 0857.50
Reposted on: 13.5.11 0859.01
While I would say that this doesn't necessarily carry the epic feel that we'd hope for in the close to the entire Buffy-verse, we kind of have to grant that it wasn't planned to be that.

It has been an excellent season, and who knows exactly how it would have turned out had the show not been canceled. Perhaps little changes here and there to give it more of an "ending" feel a little tacked on.

Honestly, I've got no complaints, even if the final episode isn't up to par as one of the best of all time, it certainly won't taint the series for me in any way.

And DAMN, Wesley's at his best when he's mopey and downtrodden. Season 3 for example.
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#7 Posted on 13.5.04 0925.36
Reposted on: 13.5.11 0925.49
Possibly a wierd take, but was the blonde werewolf not good enough to make him perfectly happy? (I know, I know, Darla and the first liazon to the Senior Partners didn't either, but Buffy did and a wet dream of Cordelia did.)

I've read just enough spoilers that I knew what to expect tonight, but I still enjoyed the episode. I just hope that Joss ends this show in a more satisfying manner than he ended Buffy - I'm still chapped that he killed Anya and her death mean nothing.
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#8 Posted on 13.5.04 1406.39
Reposted on: 13.5.11 1407.39
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett


    I'm surprised it never occured to me that Cordy could pass the visions with a kiss.





That's she got the visons power from Doyle in the 1st place, when he kissed her before he went on the ship of demons thingy.

Speaking of which reruns of season 1 started yesterday on TNT at 5pm eastern.


It's obviously not a just a kiss transfers them kind of thing. I assume the 'Powers that Be' knew Doyle was going to die, and Angel still needed a guide so they gave the power to Cordy when Doyle kissed her was a perfect time to make the switch.

The ghost of Cordy or should I say consiousness of her passed the one time vision to Angel because as she stated in the episode "they owed her one" and allowed her to see and help Angel one last time. We just assume it was the one episode. But it was a arching of help.

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#9 Posted on 13.5.04 1818.42
Reposted on: 13.5.11 1819.53
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    Possibly a wierd take, but was the blonde werewolf not good enough to make him perfectly happy? (I know, I know, Darla and the first liazon to the Senior Partners didn't either, but Buffy did and a wet dream of Cordelia did.)


Buffy was able to provide him happiness because she was the love of his (un)life. For the dream of sleeping with Cordelia to turn him evil, he had to first kill the Beast, make peace with Wesley and Connor, and smooth out the tensions within his group. Even if Nina could provide Angel with perfect-happiness inducing sex (which is debatable), there was clearly still enough other stuff on his mind that would have prevented him from 100% enjoying the moment.

LanceJr, I remember how Cordy got the visions. It just never occured to me to make the connection that as Doyle kisses Cordy right before he dies and transferred them, the same thing would happen when Cordy kisses Angel right before she dies. Cordy and Angel never actually kissed before that moment, right?

This can't be the big end of the Joss/Buffy-verse. How would they make the supposed Angel TV movies, and the ever hypothesized Buffy movie?
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#10 Posted on 13.5.04 1833.27
Reposted on: 13.5.11 1834.12
I'm fairly inclined to think Angel's going to bite the big one. They can still do Buffyverse "movie of the week" stuff without him, and last I'd heard David was saying it'd take something really special for him to slip back into the trenchcoat.

Who wants to lay odds that the next time we see him outside of direct-to-video crapola is an "ironic" cameo in the next Scooby Doo movie? :\
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#11 Posted on 13.5.04 1924.26
Reposted on: 13.5.11 1925.53
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    Possibly a wierd take, but was the blonde werewolf not good enough to make him perfectly happy? (I know, I know, Darla and the first liazon to the Senior Partners didn't either, but Buffy did and a wet dream of Cordelia did


Or the curse might simply not exist anymore. He fulfilled it when he had sex with Buffy, and then Willow restored the soul. His only resurgence into Angelus was because his soul was literally intentionally removed the second time.

I think by the end that Illyria and Drogan had moved beyond Crash Bandicoot to Puzzle Bobble. It's great that even though Fred is deceased, Amy Acker can still find ways to bring the goofy funny.

I'm guessing Spike buys the dirtnap in the final episode, if only so he doesn't have to bleach his hair anymore.
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#12 Posted on 13.5.04 2015.02
Reposted on: 13.5.11 2016.02
    Originally posted by Mild Mannered Madman
    Or the curse might simply not exist anymore. He fulfilled it when he had sex with Buffy, and then Willow restored the soul. His only resurgence into Angelus was because his soul was literally intentionally removed the second time.


The gypsies cursed Angel the first time, and Buffy fulfilled the curse and made him lose his soul. Miss Calendar researched the original curse, and Willow recast it, so the stipulation still applied. The ninja-shaman guy used the dream with Cordelia to break the curse, and again, Willow casts the curse, which must be the only spell she knows for ensouling vampires. If she didn't curse Angel and just flat out restored his soul, why wouldn't she tell him? (That'd be rather cruel.) And more importantly, if she knew how to ensoul vampires unconditionally, why wouldn't she start doing that to any and all vamps that they came across in Sunnydale (and wherever)? It'd be a lot more moral that flat out slaying vampires, and it would help them build an army of righteousness.
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#13 Posted on 14.5.04 0816.06
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0816.18
Interesting slant on the army of the righteous, but what about the vamps that were bad before they were vamped? (The cowboy vampire brothers from "Buffy" season 2 spring to mind.)

I'm also wondering if an Orb of Thesela works for more than one re-ensoulment?
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#14 Posted on 14.5.04 1700.56
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1701.40
Well, if someone is evil even with a soul, then you can slay them regardless. At least it gives vampires a chance at redemption as opposed to killing them all, including those who were nice in life.

You could take this even further and look at the case of Ford from ep 2x19 "Lie to Me", who wanted to become a vampire because he had brain cancer and was going to die. Why couldn't Angel and Willow go around finding terminally ill people, siring them, and then re-ensouling them? Granted, its not a cure, but its an alternative.

Really, of all the people to question, the gypsies have to be first. They've got a spell that can affect vampires in such a powerful way, and rather than use it for any noble purpose, they use it as a curse for revenge. Why did they start (and stop) with Angel? Did they not think that a vampire with a soul would be a good thing? Either they were limited in their abilities (i.e. Orbs of Thessela are hard to come by and only good for one casting) or they were small-minded. I think it was the latter.
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