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The 7 - the-w.com Site Feedback - avatar question
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Zeruel
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#21 Posted on 13.5.04 0011.18
Reposted on: 13.5.11 0013.43
    Originally posted by Big G


    I don't really subscribe to the theory of "If they didn't want their bandwidth stolen, they would have some sort of hotlink protection installed on their server." I think its akin to saying a shop condones shoplifting because they don't hire some burly security guard to stand at the door.



The flaw with that logic is that shoplifting is illegal, taking bandwidth isn't.

A better example would be free samples from those old ladies in the grocery store. Everyone gets a free piece, but it's frowned upon to keep stuffing yourself so much that there aren't any free samples left for anyone else.
Doc_whiskey
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#22 Posted on 13.5.04 0816.08
Reposted on: 13.5.11 0819.37
To appease a few I uploaded the pic somewhere and linked it to that site. Geez I just wanted my first avatar, not to start an internet war.
rinberg
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#23 Posted on 13.5.04 1708.41
Reposted on: 13.5.11 1709.04
    Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
    To appease a few I uploaded the pic somewhere and linked it to that site. Geez I just wanted my first avatar, not to start an internet war.


Sorry, Doc, but this sounds like healthy discussion to me-- not war. Besides, as Guru pointed out earlier, by copying the picture to another location you are engaging in copyright infringement which is illegal. Hotlinking may be immoral, but it's not illegal.
Doc_whiskey
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#24 Posted on 13.5.04 1806.15
Reposted on: 13.5.11 1806.20
    Originally posted by rinberg
      Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
      To appease a few I uploaded the pic somewhere and linked it to that site. Geez I just wanted my first avatar, not to start an internet war.


    Sorry, Doc, but this sounds like healthy discussion to me-- not war. Besides, as Guru pointed out earlier, by copying the picture to another location you are engaging in copyright infringement which is illegal. Hotlinking may be immoral, but it's not illegal.


Well then I would imagine 3/4 of the people here not to mention on the entire internet is participating in copyright infringement. Bottom line, I don't know much when it comes to technical online things, I asked for help, the zims don't seem to mind, I don't care, and I am sure the site I got it from doesn't care. If they ask me not to use the image then I will be more then happy to oblige.
rinberg
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#25 Posted on 13.5.04 1918.16
Reposted on: 13.5.11 1920.02
I hope you weren't offended. I didn't mean to sound "high and mighty" about it. I engage in my fair share of copyright infringement, so there's really nothing I can say against you or anyone else without being a hypocrite and I try to minimize my hypocrisy if you know what I mean... I just wanted to be clear on what is what.
Mike Zeidler
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#26 Posted on 14.5.04 0925.28
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0926.24
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    It's a gray area, because it is not technically illegal.

    You can argue if it's ethical, but it's not illegal as far as I can tell.




Yes, I realise hot-linking isn't illegal, I'm saying it should be. I mean, isn't hot-linking an image basically on-par with pirating cable?

Both use readily available technology to procure resources that are already available to the common consumer for a price.

Look at Big G's posting, a 5.7K file used up 810.2K of bandwidth in a little under 24 hours. Over the course of an average month, the figures out to 23.73MB of bandwidth used, just for this board. While this may not seem a massive amount, just imagine if it was a 20K file, that was being used on a more popular website, say comics.org. That's an extra 85MB of bandwidth being used that wasn't being used before, just because *ONE* person hot-linked *ONE* image to use as an avatar on this board. Most accounts have a certain level of transfers you can do every month, and beyond that you pay for your bandwidth by the megabyte per month. So that's at least $510 per year (at 50 cents per MB) that the innocent hot-linker has cost whoever runs the website.

Approximately how much bandwidth does the average cable (not broadband, actual TV viewing) customer use in relation the rest of the cable company's universe?

How much does a cable pirate cost the cable company per month? Is it equivalent to the $42.50/month the hypothetical hot-linker costs the would-be website owner?

And with that, I'll shut up.
JayJayDean
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#27 Posted on 14.5.04 0942.09
Reposted on: 14.5.11 0942.11
    Originally posted by Zundian
    Yes, I realise hot-linking isn't illegal, I'm saying it should be. I mean, isn't hot-linking an image basically on-par with pirating cable?


That seems like a stretch to me. If you are hot-linking to one image that's hardly the same as splicing into your neighbor's cable feed and buying the box to be able to accept it AND hooking it all up. That's like saying stealing an apple is the same as stealing a Rolex. Technically you're right, but common sense tells us the difference.

Hotlinking to 1000 images might be closer to "stealing a Rolex", but then you should just be punished for being an internet-abusing asshole, not a criminal.
Guru Zim
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#28 Posted on 14.5.04 1313.25
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1313.30
Here's the analogy I like to think of.

Imagine for a moment that a website is like someone back yard. With me so far?

Now, in that back yard, they've decided to place a giant bulletin board for everyone in that yard to see.

The thing is, you can see this image from anywhere you want to, because it's so big. You don't actually have to be in the yard.

Should it be illegal to look at that bulletin board in their back yard? Sure, they only intended it for a certain audience, but the fact is that they made it publically available and put it up for people to see it.

In this example, if they didn't want people to view their bulletin board, they could build a fence, or put it inside. No one is making them place it outside for public consumption.

"But I shouldn't have to put up a fence. If people know I don't want them looking at my bulletin board, they should just walk on by. It should be against the law for them to look at it."

So where does linking come into this? Imagine you live down the road and you own binoculars. If it's in plain sight in the open, it's not illegal for you to look at it with your binoculars.

Actions have consequences. If you stand outside in the street naked, you can't yell at people for looking at you.

To speak to your bandwidth considerations - imagine setting a big bowl of diamonds out on the street corner, with the intent that only your friends are allowed to take the diamonds. Do you think you'd have a claim there if a stranger walked up and took all of them? By putting the images out for public view with no limits on them they are doing just about the same thing.

There are ways to keep remote image linking from happening. Anyone who has tried to use an Angelfire image here knows that. You can't make the argument that they shouldn't have to do it. Hell, I shouldn't have to lock my car doors or my front door, but I do it anyway, and that's a statistically much lower risk.

(edited by Guru Zim on 14.5.04 1114)
Whitebacon
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#29 Posted on 14.5.04 1541.40
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1542.33
    Originally posted by Zundian
    Yes, I realise hot-linking isn't illegal, I'm saying it should be. I mean, isn't hot-linking an image basically on-par with pirating cable?



Is your avatar supposed to be ironic then?
Mike Zeidler
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#30 Posted on 14.5.04 1926.14
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1926.24
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
    Is your avatar supposed to be ironic then?


Why yes, it is.

Now as far as Guru's analogy goes; It may be true that the bulletin board is big enough to see from the entire neighborhood, but the picture you tacked up in one corner that was by drawn by little Timmy isn't, it's supposed to be for just the people in the backyard.

Unfortunately someone's seen Timmy's drawing and told all their friends about it, soon people start walking into your backyard to make a copy of Timmy's drawing on your household Scanner/printer, to the point where there's a dirt path worn into your lawn and your own printouts for the bulletin board are in danger of not being seen if you don't more ink.

Now the people down the street who use telephoto lenses to take perfect pictures, from their own backyards, of Timmy's drawing to print out and post to their bulletin boards in their own backyards haven't cost you a penny, and haven't damaged your lawn, who are you more likely to not be fond of?

Again, I'm just sayin'. Now can we close the thread?
Guru Zim
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#31 Posted on 14.5.04 1936.59
Reposted on: 14.5.11 1937.52
Just admit that I win the argument

Oh nevermind, We'll just assume you would have done that had I not closed the thread.
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