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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - My problem with Triple H...
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ekedolphin
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#1 Posted on 19.3.02 0302.25
Reposted on: 19.3.09 0306.46
Jericho was made to look like a complete pussy at WrestleMania. He had an opponent whose quadricep, we were told, was literally held together by one wire. So Jericho naturally capitalized on that, as well he should-- pounding it, smashing it, using leg submissions.

Yet he still lost. And he was unable to prevent Stephanie from getting Pedigreed by Triple H.

Ladies and gentlemen, based on everything we were told prior to the match, there simply should have been no way in hell that Triple H should have been able to walk out of that match at all, let alone win the Undisputed Title.

He sold the leg injury for a little while and was noticably limping throughout-- yet he stood fully erect for both Pedigrees and still walked out of the match. And on RAW the next night, he didn't sell the leg injury at all.

And herein lies the problem. I could have accepted Triple H winning the title at WrestleMania had it not been for the buildup about that damn quadricep. It's almost as if the idiot in the back writing this crap is saying, “Hey, let's insult the intelligence of every wrestling fan we have. Let's say Triple H is one false move away from never being able to walk again. Let's let Y2J work on that knee constantly at WrestleMania, but still book Triple H to win the match, the title and his comeuppance on Stephanie.”

Fans, it is that kind of Jesus-like comeback that makes non-wrestling fans look at our “sport” and scoff. Triple H survived the what-should-have-been mortal car crash at Survivor Series 2000 and came back eight days later. Yet we're asked to believe that he's taken out for eight months because of a freak accident in the ring in which he simply landed wrong! We're told that the quadricep is very vulnerable, and then Triple H is STILL put over when, by the logic going into the match, there's no way he should have been standing afterward!

Who is the idiot in the back writing this crap? You can't tell me that Triple H has little power backstage, because it's clear after this that he's got as much power as Hulk Hogan did back when Hulkamania first ran wild in both the WWF and WCW. And when the inmates are running the asylum, it can only lead to disaster. Look back at WCW, my friends, and witness the proof.
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#2 Posted on 19.3.02 0342.54
Reposted on: 19.3.09 0344.34
The babyface overcoming a horrible injury to still win the match is an ages-old device in wrestling, though. I think the only problem is that the WWF is trying to overdo it. Saying that the leg is weakened, fine. That it's not fully healed, fine. That it's only one razor's edge away from paralyzing the man for life -- overkill. They were trying to build up the psychology of the match by having HHH's injury, and subsequent abuse by the man who "gave" him that injury, play a possible Achilles Heel for him, and make him seem like the true champion when he overcomes the horrible pain his leg must be giving him to rally and win the match anyway.
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#3 Posted on 19.3.02 0422.20
Reposted on: 19.3.09 0425.21
I just dropped by to write a post nigh on identical to your post, ekedolphin. I just absolutely hate this Superman portrayal of Triple H, and Ross' selling of it on commentary just soured it even more. In Kurt Angles auto(*cough*)biography he states that Triple H advised him into ensuring that Rock "made him" in Angle's title loss to Rock, was that match an example of Triple H making Y2J then? Making out that he is such an utterly awesome wrestler that, even on one leg, he is so far better than Y2J that they're in different leagues? Does Triple H still beleive Y2J isn't ready yet as he stated in the "Off the Record" interview?

I don't buy this "it's the right thing to do" deal that's permeating the net today, either. I wish someone would explain why it is right to put the belts on Triple H, as far as I can see, they've got a face champ with no credible heel challengers. Y2J has been portrayed a A) a pussy and b) secondary to Steph, Angle had been repeated trounced by Triple H already, Taker is not a main event player any more (I mean, I love him, but he doesn't get that kind of reaction) and they turned Hogan face. Oh wait, would I be just too utterly cynical/smarky if I suggested that, oh, maybe the nWo/clique guys would be the next heels in line once they've done the Jericho rematches? Please, I mean it, explain why it's the best decision otherwise someone will start shouting "glass ceiling" again, and while I don't think it's that I just don't get it.
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#4 Posted on 19.3.02 0804.24
Reposted on: 19.3.09 0807.28
My problem with that match (and not HHH) was moreso

1. It's placement on the card. After that Hogan-Rock match, the crowd had NO emotional energy left for HHH, Jericho and Steph

and

2. The match wasn't about Jericho or the belt at all. It was all about whether Steph would FINALLY get pedigreed. Nobody's $50 is worth that.

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#5 Posted on 19.3.02 0902.33
Reposted on: 19.3.09 0905.30
Okay, the worst part about this match..... Was Jericho EVER going to win? I mean, he worked the leg and all, and he did manage to put Triple H in the Walls once (maybe twice? I won't watch that match again for at least another week, I'd hate to get all angry again) but where were the false finishes? I don't recall any. I don't recall Triple H looking like he was going to lose at all during that match. And that is just sad. Unless I completely can't remember anything at all (maybe I'll just have to watch it again so I can make sure I'm not a complete ass) that match wasn't good at all. It was terrible. That match belonged on the damn Backlash card, not the main event at Wresltemania.

-Jag
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#6 Posted on 19.3.02 0933.09
Reposted on: 19.3.09 0937.44
And the WWF will probably try to blame Jericho, I'd bet. Hey, maybe if the guy who's banging the idiot who's writing this crap would get his head out of his ass for just one minute, everything would be better off. The match at WrestleMania seemed like nothing more than a glorified squash. You're right, there was never any doubt that Jericho was going to lose. Because Triple H undersold that leg injury something fierce-- and then on RAW, sold it not at all.

I think there should be a stipluation added to the Y2J/Stephanie vs. Triple H match: If Jericho wins, both Hunter and Stephanie have to get off my TV. And then you'd better believe I'll be chanting “Y2J! Y2J!”

I really haven't been anti-Hunter like this in a damn while, but shit! Everything I used to hate about Hulk Hogan, I'm now starting to hate about Triple H.
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#7 Posted on 19.3.02 0949.45
Reposted on: 19.3.09 0959.06
Spot on! Who took the Universe from last year and turned it on it's head? I mean I like Hogan and loathe Triple H....
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#8 Posted on 19.3.02 1225.36
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1229.07
Shhh...don't let anyone hear this thread, or everyone will be accused of being evil Scott Keith clone smarks.

The only thing I noticed about the match, which I can't say I blame him for, is it seemed like Jericho stopped working that hard around the midpoint of the match. Of course by that point the crowd was dead, he was in the middle of being squashed in a way that pretty much guarantees he is going to be coming home to the midcard soon, and the whole match was building up to Steph's big spot anyways. So who can really blame him if he didn't want to make HGH look any bigger than he already does?

On a side note, I thought it would be the coolest thing ever if when Jericho walked into the arena, they had Edge, Booker, Regal, RVD, Kane, Test and Angle waiting there with a big sign and a cake welcoming him back to the upper-midcard, where he can rejoin the never ending cluster-fuck going on therein. Oh well, maybe after this coming Monday when he gets squished like a bug so either Hunter can cement his epic title reign, or so Steph can finally become world champ.
Papercuts!
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#9 Posted on 19.3.02 1235.56
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1238.52
It's amazing, after two long years of just about every fan on the net bitching about how Wrestlemania "tradition" was "ruined" two years in a row by the WWF putting heels over in the main event of Wrestlemania, you're bitching about a babyface winning the main event. Of course, had Jericho won, there'd be people bitching about how Triple H didn't put him over "credibly" or that they were continuing to stomp all over "tradition" or whatever. And really, I don't want to hear if you were "happy" with the outcomes of the prior two WMs or whatever.

My point?

Many many fans will never be happy, no matter the outcome, even if they got to book it themselves.


    Originally posted by spf2119:
    Shhh...don't let anyone hear this thread, or everyone will be accused of being evil Scott Keith clone smarks.
Let it go, man. Really. You're making it look more and more like you have a guilty conscience.
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#10 Posted on 19.3.02 1343.20
Reposted on: 19.3.09 1351.13
I think the problem with that post, Papercuts, is that while I do agree with you that a lot of us bitch too much, the people who posted in this thread may not be the ones who complained about the things you mentioned. I know I didn't. I've been a very happy WWF fan up until things started to drag after WM last year. And it hasn't been all bad. When Jericho and Benoit started to rise at the beginning of Summer, that was awesome. I loved Heel Austin, and people piss me off when they keep trying to tell me that Heel Austin didn't work. The Invasion didn't work, and that's really only because it was an over-booked mess that nobody tried to straighten out until Survivor Series.

So anyway, I'm just bored/frustrated/angry with the whole Jericho/Steph/HHH storyline, (which I wouldn't be if 1) It wasn't for the goddamned WWF Title, and 2) It didn't take up so much TV Time) and the one match that they've had was sub-par at the biggest event of the year. So that pisses me off.

-Jaguar
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#11 Posted on 20.3.02 0345.14
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0350.57
The fact that heels won in previous years means that now it is not a given that a face has to win the main event, thus expectations are going to be different. I think the sentiment here has more to do with the fact that the whole damn feud buried Jericho pretty much from the off, and massaged Triple H's ego. It wasn't entertaining in my opinion, the Undisputed Heavyweight Championship of the world was secondary to whether Steph got pedigreed or not/ H's dog getting run over/ Jericho fetching hand lotion. Hand lotion! I'm not just bitching because Triple H won and I don't like Triple H, I'm annoyed becaused the story sucked, the match wasn't that great and from a business point of view they killed their only viable main event heel at the moment. The most important match of the year should be the Mania main event and it wasn't. That is what is winding me up.

Papercuts, did you enjoy it? I cannot see the logic in it, and I really would like someone to point out some merits in there. I'm just at a loss though.
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#12 Posted on 20.3.02 0431.44
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0431.56
*sigh*

1. Jericho held the belt for a little over 3 months. In that four months he beat Rock and Austin twice. The only main event face that he didn't beat (besides Hogan): HHH.

2. Jericho had a problem with 'crediblity' among casual and net fans long before this match, and it would NOT have been solved no matter who he beat. The problem: Well for one he's a victim of circumstance falling behind HHH's Return, the nWo, then Rock/Hogan. Not his fault, and not really the WWF's fault either. The other is that he was kind of flailing around at the top of the card...

3. By that I mean, everybody was just WAITING for him to drop the belt. Even us. We thought he'd lose to Rock, Austin, Rock, Austin. But he didn't. That gives him some credibility right there. We expected him to lose at WrestleMania, and he did. Well, it was going to happen sometime. You keep saying something and you'll be right one of these times.

4. Jericho was made to look like a complete pussy at WrestleMania. Uh...Well...Yeah... I mean his gimmick as a FACE was a whiny bitch. He just doesn't LOOK like a badass. Unfortunately for us, Vince McMahon (and I think alot of fans) want a champion that looks like he could actually kick your ass. HHH, bad leg or not, looks like he could kick Jerichos ass. Why do you think there have been so many big men champions (and I'm talking Rock "big" not "Nash" big, though it fits)? Because at the end of the day, you believe that the big guy can kick the little guy's ass. The only way the little guy wins is if he cheats or he has something in his bag of tricks. Jericho's bag of tricks ran out on him and he lost.

5. Fans, it is that kind of Jesus-like comeback that makes non-wrestling fans look at our “sport” and scoff.

Umm...Good for them? I mean, honestly, haven most faces been like this forever (some heels too). Look at Rock. You beat the piss out of Rock, but then he kips up and it's like nothing happened. Same with Hogan. Except the kip up. Or any babyface on a tag. HHH wobbles but he doesn't fall down.

6. They've got a face champ with no credible heel challengers

And the WWF is just burgening with face challengers right now? Austin's crying. Plus Jericho just beat him at NWO. Rock's fighting the nWo, plus Jericho just beat him. Umm...HHH...No, wait, we hate HHH, plus, again, they just fought. Who? Flair...God...Hogan? Or maybe Big Show. Yeah...

oh, maybe the nWo/clique guys would be the next heels in line once they've done the Jericho rematches?

Honestly, I wouldn't bat an eyelash if they ran Hall after HHH. Might be a fun match.

7. Yes. Stephanie was too prominant in this angle. But, eh. I should've wanted to see the match. I did. It was ok. HHH won. Ok.

I am a Chris Jericho fan. No, seriously, I am. I just think that this thread is ridiculous. HHH has as much right to hold the title as Jericho, Rock, Austin, Taker, Angle, whoever. If you don't like the Champion, that's one thing. If you liked the guy who was champion before and don't like the one now, that's another. But to try to come up with some grand conspiracy in order to bitch about it is just tiring.
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#13 Posted on 20.3.02 0645.22
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0649.24
Triple H was limping on his way down to the ring on Monday night.
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#14 Posted on 20.3.02 0710.50
Reposted on: 20.3.09 0717.05
Excalibur, had they gone with a heel champion the list of credible challengers would be far longer. The fact that Rock and Austin were both kept strong in their screwjob losses means that they would not be counted out of the list. Had they been convincingly repelled, fair enough, but that is not the case. You can argue that they are busy doing other feuds now, but they might not have been booked to do so had they decided to run with a heel champion, WrestleMania provides an opportunity to reset storylines anyway, so they could easily have been put in the title picture. Since they went with a Triple H win, then it's all moot I guess, but a list of challengers that includes Rock/Austin chasing Y2J for wins they were screwed out of is surely more interesting than watching Triple H beat Y2J or Angle easily again and again.

And why is it that when anyone comlains around here nowadays they're "bitching"? I'm actually more excited about the WWF than I have been for a long time due to the possibilities that the Split provides, but I'll still be critical of the things I don't like. As I've said before, as long as I spend money on the WWF in one way or another, I think I have a right as a supporter of the WWF to say if I don't like/get/enjoy something just as much as I do to compliment that which I enjoy.
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#15 Posted on 20.3.02 1138.22
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1152.01

    Originally posted by Papercuts!
    It's amazing, after two long years of just about every fan on the net bitching about how Wrestlemania "tradition" was "ruined" two years in a row by the WWF putting heels over in the main event of Wrestlemania, you're bitching about a babyface winning the main event. Of course, had Jericho won, there'd be people bitching about how Triple H didn't put him over "credibly" or that they were continuing to stomp all over "tradition" or whatever. And really, I don't want to hear if you were "happy" with the outcomes of the prior two WMs or whatever.

    My point?

    Many many fans will never be happy, no matter the outcome, even if they got to book it themselves.



I think the problem here is that HHH was the one who started to ruin tradition, ruining The Rock or Mankind's big title win at WrestleMania 2K. Then, ruining everything else thereafter and being completely indestructable.

So, after beating The Rock, Mankind, Steve Austin, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, and all of those guys multiple times without ever really getting beaten in return (Angle & Rock got a screwy win here and there, plus UT beat him that one time, but UT'll pay soon enough), HHH is finally a babyface somehow (even though he still hasn't payed for breaking Jim Ross' arm!)

HHH is now in the position of Rock & Mankind two years ago while Jericho is the one who actually has something to prove in the WrestleMania main event. Vince McMahon, who's played a part in the main events for the last two years, suddenly stops showing up. Why can't he be bothered to screw up the main event THIS year? Especially after hinting at interfering at WM on the prior Monday.

Maybe Stephanie pleaded with her father not to get involved in the WM main event in one of those life-imitates-art moments, but either way, HHH's character would have been served justly had he been screwed this year. Plus, it would have REALLY elevated Jericho (as opposed to REALLY NOT elevating Jericho, like what happened).

So, yeah, I'm not satisfied with HHH getting a clean win over Jericho. It's kind of a "been there, done that" thing. Plus, HHH just isn't really all that good to begin with. I really think he's just getting this push, because Vince knows he'll impregnate his daughter and become a part of the McMahon family someday, so he'll be reliable.

(Yes, I know Vince WAS going to screw up Austin vs Hall, but Austin was smart enough to realize how much that ending sucked. Vince could have actually played a good story-driven role in Jericho-HHH, but he didn't and now HHH is the champ and he'll never lose the damned thing and we're all going to Hell once the split starts)
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#16 Posted on 20.3.02 1147.39
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1152.02
Ok. So HHH got the win over Jericho at WM. Not everybody likes that. But honestly the reason i think was so that the company has a solid big man face for this split as the champion. I dont think they want a whiny heel champion at a major time like this for the company.
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#17 Posted on 20.3.02 1158.16
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1159.06
I think the problem with the feud is that HHH has been beating on Jericho for 2 years now, and Jericho has NEVER gotten the payback on him. HHH screwed him out of the WWF belt. HHH beat the hell out of him and won Last Man Standing. HHH took his titles away on one leg. And Jericho made lots of jokes about what a slut Stephanie is. No matter which side of the heel/face fence the two of them are on, HHH ALWAYS beats Jericho, and I think that's why people are so annoyed with the finish.



(edited by spf2119 on 20.3.02 1158)
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#18 Posted on 20.3.02 1215.23
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1215.35
Personally I just feel that when you look at Jericho's Title Reign, he just didn't get a decent push.

Sure he played a Weasely back stabbing evil Champ that probably would have needed to cheat against the Broklyn Brawler, I got no problem there.
The trouble was, that Jericho's role just became less and less. Interviews went from few and far between to like NONE.

And of course in the weeks leading up to Mania, Jericho only appeared as Stefo's little helper.
There is a difference betweenbeing a "lousy" champion (Which is what the character was) and the company just giving up on you.

Look at Royal Rumble, THey built the ROck up heavily and then Just before the Card, Jericho comes out and cuts a great Promo about how under-rated he is.

Of course part of the problem was the Hogan Rock match which naturally overshadowed this, but rather than trying to build up BOTH matches, they abandoned the title match in favor of the other. Austin, Rock, and NWO got plenty of buildup, why not the Champ. (Come to think of it, who was getting the build up aside from these guys? Flair and 'Taker I guess, but not so much as to HOG all the TV time.)

Personally, if I was booking it, and knew Triple H was going over, I'd have had Jericho pull the sledge hammer attack just after No Way out (Say right after the win on Angle at Raw). Have Hunter off for a full week or two due to the "injury" (With Jericho and Stef given a few minutes a show to laugh at Hunter's misfortune).
Two Raws before Mania, Have Jericho try and re-injure Hunter, but get cut off at the pass or something (Maybe he mistakes Edge for Hunter or something). But Have Stef console his failure with "It would have just been the icing on the cake"
Two Smackdowns Prior to Mania have Hunter face Angle, who goes after the leg, and gets the Win.
Raw Have Jericho and Stef berate Hunter and make fun of his 'Handicap' . Have Hunter Play up his injury, maybe carry cane, show a segment with a Doctor telling him how bad it is.

Mania, have Hunter Limp to the ring, have the match and maybe show the "Doctor' Selling peanuts.

Okay thi got kinda convoluted, Basically I'm saying make it look like Hunter out-smarted Jericho(And Stef) a bit, and had a little time to heel the injury so he isn't Mr. Miracle. Jericho can still look like the Weak champ, but it appears that if he hadn't been so sure of himself (Thanks in part to stef) he might have cheated more to win.

Jericho can still act cocky into a rematch (Claiming Hunter tricked him and he went easy on the Cripple) and get destroyed there.
Plus with a loss prior to Mania Hunter has a credible Heel opponent who can demand a match.

See the WWF used to be very good at subtly putting into motion events that would later help out story lines.
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#19 Posted on 20.3.02 1345.18
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1355.11
I think that would've been awesome. Just to see Triple H limp out to the ring at WM, and at some point in the match just stand up and kick the shit out of Jericho with his limp leg? Then to hear him yell at Jericho, "You asshole! You thought you took me out, but I fooled you, because I am the GAME!" That would've been pretty neat to see (dead crowd might make it suck though). If somebody had actually managed to book Triple H to be a cool face instead of a "Hey, he's supposed to be the good guy, cheer for him!" face, and that the whole of that match didn't revolve around Steph, I would've been happy.

-Jag
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#20 Posted on 20.3.02 1449.12
Reposted on: 20.3.09 1449.14
I just find it funny that people are only realizing just now what I've been saying for months about Jericho and what needed to happen with him and his title push for him to become a star...

The fact remains that no matter how you cut it, Jericho did not get a fair shake these past three months. And that's why I'm so damned frustrated, being the lifelong Jericho mark I am...
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