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spf
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#1 Posted on 5.5.04 1426.30
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1428.18
I try not to post when pissed off, but this really irked me something fierce, and I am just hoping to see someone from the other side of the fence tell me that this is not how everyone on the right is looking at the situation in question. From many sources, but quoted from Quick Takes in the Chicago Sun-Times (suntimes.com)

Rush Limbaugh on the incidents of abuse and torture of Iraqi prisoners:

"I don't know if it's just me, but these pictures look like anything you'd see Madonna or Britney Spears do on stage. I mean, this is something you can see at Lincoln Center for an NEA grant."


Anyone want to respond to this? Tell me I'm taking this out of context or being too sensitive? Or say that Rush is brain damaged from all the OxyContin and knows not what he says? *mutters angrily to himself*
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DrDirt
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#2 Posted on 5.5.04 1440.19
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1441.02
C'mon, you must have expected as much. Hannity, while more circumspect, essentially did the same thing. Our strength as a country comes when we meet things like this head on, admit mistakes, and correct the problem. And no, I am not blaming the entire military or the Bush Administration. But we as a country are responsible for the actions of our personnel.
Von Maestro
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#3 Posted on 5.5.04 1454.56
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1457.47
    Originally posted by spf2119
    ...and I am just hoping to see someone from the other side of the fence tell me that this is not how everyone on the right is looking at the situation in question.


Come on SPF, I think you know the answer to this...

Here's a pretty high-up spokesman for the Right's take:
Bush: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse 'Abhorrent' (story.news.yahoo.com)
Grimis
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#4 Posted on 5.5.04 1456.21
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1459.02
It's amazing how most on the right(other than Bozos like El Rushbo) are as disgusted by this torture business as anybody else(including the President).
Roy.
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#5 Posted on 5.5.04 1637.43
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1638.02
My favorite Rush argument is that the Iraqis did worse to us, so what we did shouldn't be such a big deal.

I'm glad to see almost universal outrage over the treatment, but would have liked an apology from the president (although I do understand the polital implications of such an apology). Of course, I doubt the airing of the president on Arab TV will do any good in the Arab world. I bet we've seen more of him on TV than the Iraqis have. And, if I'm not mistaken, he wasn't on Al Jazeera, was he?
ges7184
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#6 Posted on 5.5.04 1716.27
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1717.18
I consider myself on the right. I've gone from actually enjoying Rush to disliking him, but still occassionally listening over the last 10 years or so. When I tuned in the other day and heard Rush actually trying to defend the prisoner abuse, well that was it, I'm done with the Rush Limbaugh program.

(but I guess just to be clear, I have been against the Iraqi conflict from the start, so that may color my judgment)
CRZ
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#7 Posted on 5.5.04 1718.47
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1718.52
    Originally posted by Rush Limbaugh
    "I don't know if it's just me, but these pictures look like anything you'd see Madonna or Britney Spears do on stage. I mean, this is something you can see at Lincoln Center for an NEA grant."
This is not an entirely untrue statement...I believe it's a matter of how the listener places (or doesn't) it within a context.
DrDirt
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#8 Posted on 5.5.04 1747.32
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1748.39
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Rush Limbaugh
      "I don't know if it's just me, but these pictures look like anything you'd see Madonna or Britney Spears do on stage. I mean, this is something you can see at Lincoln Center for an NEA grant."
    This is not an entirely untrue statement...I believe it's a matter of how the listener places (or doesn't) it within a context.


Zed, that's true. Hoever, listen to the "right-wing" talk show hosts and the context is sickening. And I believe with Madonna, they are getting paid. Most conservatives are sickened by this. This isn't even a Rep. or Dem. issue. Any thinking American would be outraged. We may not be a perfec country but we hold ourselves to a higher moral standard that thankfully we pretty much attain.
Hogan's My Dad
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#9 Posted on 5.5.04 2310.12
Reposted on: 5.5.11 2311.15
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Rush Limbaugh
      "I don't know if it's just me, but these pictures look like anything you'd see Madonna or Britney Spears do on stage. I mean, this is something you can see at Lincoln Center for an NEA grant."
    This is not an entirely untrue statement...I believe it's a matter of how the listener places (or doesn't) it within a context.


Well I've done security for plenty of concerts, including Britney and Madonna, and I've never seen piled naked bodies or people's fingers and genitals wired to anything.
BigVitoMark
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#10 Posted on 6.5.04 1219.24
Reposted on: 6.5.11 1219.26
    Originally posted by Roy.
    My favorite Rush argument is that the Iraqis did worse to us, so what we did shouldn't be such a big deal.


I think you're misunderstanding Rush's point there. The way I heard it, Rush was arguing that he didn't understand why no one here (and I mean "here" in the continental sense) seems to care when stories of Americans being tortured by Iraqis break, but as soon as it's the other way around it's a big outrage. I suppose this is understandable since the Americans have more control over their own actions than over the actions of others, but still...I certainly don't think Rush was trying to say that he condones torturing prisoners.
Jonny_English
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#11 Posted on 6.5.04 1432.31
Reposted on: 6.5.11 1433.22
About fucking time...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 1/hi/world/americas/3691823.stm
Roy.
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#12 Posted on 6.5.04 1457.21
Reposted on: 6.5.11 1459.01
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
      Originally posted by Roy.
      My favorite Rush argument is that the Iraqis did worse to us, so what we did shouldn't be such a big deal.


    I think you're misunderstanding Rush's point there. The way I heard it, Rush was arguing that he didn't understand why no one here (and I mean "here" in the continental sense) seems to care when stories of Americans being tortured by Iraqis break, but as soon as it's the other way around it's a big outrage. I suppose this is understandable since the Americans have more control over their own actions than over the actions of others, but still...I certainly don't think Rush was trying to say that he condones torturing prisoners.


Point taken, but Rush has it all wrong. There was extensive coverage of the atrocities done to Americans. I guess since we didn't put the pictures on TV (they were very graphic, even for me), he's outraged. Plus, those atrocities weren't controllable, like you said, while in the case of prisoner abuse, somebody in a position of command screwed up, be it in the CIA, the state department, the department of defense, or in a jail cell in Iraq. There's bound to be more fallout.

And I don't understand his reasoning. I believe he was against the Nightline broadcast, but he's for telling about graphic ways that Americans died? I guess we can say that a soldier was shot, set on fire, and hung from a tree (and we should show the pictures), but we can't show his face on TV and say where he was from in a respectful manner? That would undermine the war effort and makes the terrorists win (sarcasm).

(edited by Roy. on 6.5.04 1558)
The Amazing Salami
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#13 Posted on 6.5.04 1503.05
Reposted on: 6.5.11 1503.25
"The terrorists win"



This isn't a knock on Roy (cause he said it with sarcasm), but I think I've heard this phrase enough times as an argument why or why we shouldn't act/react or do/not-do something in the last 24 months to last several life times.

The terrorists haven't won. They're not going to win. They will terrorize. That's what they do.

Unfortunately, I don't believe we'll ever rid the world of all of them. I don't think it's possible. That being said, I should also say I don't know exactly how I feel about this "war on terror."

But I know, without a doubt, that the terrorists aren't winning.

(edited by The Amazing Salami on 6.5.04 1303)

(edited by The Amazing Salami on 6.5.04 1303)
Jonny_English
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#14 Posted on 7.5.04 1253.52
Reposted on: 7.5.11 1254.11
According to the UK paper the Daily Telegraph, Limbaugh has likened the abuse of Iraqi prisoners to 'student initiation pranks'. Personally, I don't remember having a noose around my neck or electrodes attached to my bollocks while I was at university, or being made to fear for my life. For fucks sake just shave off their eyebrows (sarcasm). I wonder if Pte Lynndie Englands' mother would consider it to be 'stupid, kid things - pranks" if her daughter were held by an occupying force and made to strip/masturbate for the cameras. I am sure the majority of posters will agree it is likely that the Iraqi's have treated coalition PoW's in a similarly brutal fashion at some point, but if we want to claim the moral high ground, our behaviour must reflect this.

Parents defend shamed daughter
By David Rennie in Washington
(Filed: 07/05/2004)


Until last week, a photograph of Pte Lynndie England hung on the Wall of Honour at her local branch of Wal-Mart, the quintessential superstore chain of rural America.

Now the 21-year-old soldier's face is off that wall and on the front pages of newspapers across the world. First she was seen grinning, with a cigarette in her mouth, and gesturing at naked Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib, some hooded, others being forced to masturbate for the cameras.

Then, in the latest pictures, she is seen smiling as she pulls on a dog lead attached to the neck of a naked Iraqi, prone in a cell block.

Her parents know the pictures do not look good, but they have an explanation. Their daughter - being held, more or less incommunicado, at an army base in North Carolina - is a "scapegoat", who was "in the wrong place at the wrong time".

Speaking to reporters who descended on the family's trailer park home in West Virginia, Terrie England, Lynndie's mother, dismissed the images as "stupid, kid things - pranks".

Echoing the thoughts of many, though not all, Middle Americans, she added: "And what the [Iraqis] do to our men and women are just? The rules of the Geneva Convention, does that apply to everybody or just us?"

Pte England was a "pen pusher", her family said. "She didn't guard them, she booked them. She just happened to be there when they took those photographs," her mother told The New York Times.

Though Pte England has not been charged, she has been demoted, and her family is not allowed to contact her, instead receiving what they assume are supervised calls from her detention place at Fort Bragg.

Six of her comrades from the 372nd Military Police Company, a reserve unit from the Appalachian backwoods, face possible court martials, charged with assault, cruelty and indecency. One of those charged, Specialist Charles Graner, a prison guard in civilian life, is reportedly her fiance and the father of the child she is carrying.

According to court papers filed during a messy divorce, Pte Graner, 35, has a record of violence against his ex-wife, who also complained that he stalked her and threatened her with guns.

Families of the other soldiers facing charges insist that they were acting under orders from military intelligence, CIA interrogators and private contractors, who told them to soften up prisoners for questioning.

Pte England's father, Kenneth, drives a pick-up truck decorated with the motto "Proud parents of a US soldier". Middle America's conservative icons - hosts of talk radio, and the television anchors of the Fox News channel - see no reason for that pride to falter.

Rush Limbaugh, the king of Right-wing US radio, compared the abuses at Abu Ghraib to student initiation pranks.




(edited by Jonny_English on 7.5.04 1055)
ges7184
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#15 Posted on 9.5.04 1001.54
Reposted on: 9.5.11 1005.11
And Rush and others miss the larger issue here, it really doesn't so much matter what WE think (though I don't think most of us like it), it is what the Middle Eastern people, particularily the Iraqis think. And they view this sort of thing MUCH worse than we do. The fact that women were involved makes matters worse. This is important because we are trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi citizens. Those who oppose us are trying to do the same thing. This is very damaging for our attempts, while it only provides ammunition to the enemy.
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