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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Disney stops distribution of Fahrenheit 911 Register and log in to post!
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dwaters
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#21 Posted on 5.5.04 1402.47
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1403.08
Wow, lots of Michael Moore haters here.

Even if you don't agree with him, you have to admire his passion for the causes he believes in and his ability to relate them to others through films and books.

I read "Dude, Where's my Country?" and was pretty shocked by his tales of the Bush administration flying members of the Bin Laden family out of the country while the rest of us were grounded and renting cars to get back to loved ones.
Why is Michael Moore the only one talking about this? Is he making it up?




drjayphd
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#22 Posted on 5.5.04 1403.57
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1404.51
    Originally posted by bash91
    Both sides agree that Disney informed Moore or his agent that Disney and their subsidiaries would not be distributing the movie. What's the agent do? He sells the movie to Miramax, so that he and Moore can use the ensuing cries of censorship and conservative bullying as free advertising rather than trying to craft an ad campaign for their nonpartisan comedy.


*ding*

You've just GOT to believe that he knew this would happen and went ahead with it anyway. I mean, look at any of his movies. In Roger & Me, did he honestly think he'd get to talk to anybody at GM every time he went to their offices? Of course not... it's just an attempt to look like he's being held down. He knew he'd never get this movie out through Miramax and used it for publicity. Admit it, he's a wily, if not doughy filmmaker. He's got options, and that's all that's really important. Now, if nobody wanted to distribute, you could start looking around...
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#23 Posted on 5.5.04 1413.11
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1413.25
    Originally posted by dwaters
    Why is Michael Moore the only one talking about this? Is he making it up?





Usually. He has a proud history of distorting facts or, when that fails, just lying. Check out the Moore Watch.
wmatistic
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#24 Posted on 5.5.04 1418.33
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1420.16
    Originally posted by dwaters
    Wow, lots of Michael Moore haters here.

    Even if you don't agree with him, you have to admire his passion for the causes he believes in and his ability to relate them to others through films and books.

    I read "Dude, Where's my Country?" and was pretty shocked by his tales of the Bush administration flying members of the Bin Laden family out of the country while the rest of us were grounded and renting cars to get back to loved ones.
    Why is Michael Moore the only one talking about this? Is he making it up?







Likely, yes he is. After what I've read about the real truth of his Bowling for Columbine, it became pretty clear he's into manipulating facts to serve his agenda.

It's not just passion, it's being close minded and ignorant. He has refused ever since the last election to consider Bush as having done one single thing that isn't horrible. Now I have no problem with people who think Bush has done a bad job or made mistakes. Fine. But Moore takes it to a whole different level. And has for four years now.

I consider him to be as stupid and close minded as I do Rush. Neither one really has a clue, nor do they want one.
Rudoublesedoublel
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#25 Posted on 5.5.04 1434.58
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1434.58
    Originally posted by Grimis

    I'm not going to cry for Michael Moore though. He has made millions off this stuff over the years.



    I managed to watch a small part of "Bowling..." before I started screaming at the TV and retching. In part of the movie, he makes some sort of negative statement about "rich people". (Sarcasm on...) I am so surprised that he's made money off of his films, that would make him rich, wouldn't it? But, I'm sure that he's given it all to charity - or better yet directly to the needy so that he's not a hypocrite for bemoaning "the rich". (Sarcasm off...)

    Like everyone else, I'm sure that some company will buy the rights and release his movie. Luckily, I can't be forced to watch it.

    (edited by Rudoublesedoublel on 5.5.04 1435)

    (edited by Rudoublesedoublel on 5.5.04 1436)
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#26 Posted on 5.5.04 1450.22
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1452.58
Because I'm not in anyone's inner circle, and I'm thousands of miles away, I can only take what Moore says at face value. Considering the litigious culture in the US, it's reasonable to consider that should Moore have made anything up, he'd be in court by now. I can't add to the Fahrenheit 911 thread greatly, save to say in support of Michael Moore, I read the UK edition "Stupid White Men" and it scared the shit out of me. What scares me even more, is that it appears no-one is disputing the facts of the stolen vote in Florida. For my money, Moore is a pretty accurate film maker, and I can easily believe that the Bush administration are crapping themselves over this in an election year.
The Amazing Salami
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#27 Posted on 5.5.04 1453.00
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1453.18
    Originally posted by Jonny_English
    For my money, Moore is a pretty accurate film maker, and I can easily believe that the Bush administration are crapping themselves over this in an election year.


No no no. Moore is a moron....a very inaccurate, self-serving film maker and the Bush administration realizes that the only people foolish enough to believe otherwise are British and therefore aren't crapping themselves.
Jonny_English
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#28 Posted on 5.5.04 1455.29
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1459.01
Elaborate please
The Amazing Salami
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#29 Posted on 5.5.04 1501.25
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1504.27
    Originally posted by Jonny_English
    Elaborate please



There's plenty in this thread alone, but just in case you didn't see it the first time through....

http://the-w.com/ thread.php/id=19979&page=1#235154
dwaters
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#30 Posted on 5.5.04 1555.48
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1555.55
Aren't ALL film makers self-serving?
How is he inaccurate?
Did he make up the shootings at Columbine?
Did he make up the layoffs and shutdowns at GM?

It takes a lot of balls to walk into a company's headquarters and present the CEO a check for 8 cents to pay the first hour of the first Mexican worker that will be working for them.
Some call it overdramatic, but hey, whatever it takes to make your point.
I guess it takes a "moron" to hold politicians and corporations accountable.
I guess they award Oscars to "morons" these days.
Barbwire Mike
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#31 Posted on 5.5.04 1612.34
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1613.18
    Originally posted by dwaters
    I guess they award Oscars to "morons" these days.


That's one of the more unintentionally funny lines I've seen on a forum in quite some time. :)
GRL
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#32 Posted on 5.5.04 1616.29
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1618.38
    Originally posted by dwaters
    Aren't ALL film makers self-serving?




Ouch.

But yeah, in a way we are (pasquinadefilms.com, baby! Buy t-shirts or something!!). Or we just use the medium to tell stories that reflect our perfected and idealistic view of the world.

I enjoyed "Bowling for Columbine" because I saw it:
1) Drunk
2) In Canada
3) with a great friend from England
Roy.
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#33 Posted on 5.5.04 1711.30
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1711.34
I used to really like Michael Moore. I was first introduced to him via TV shows, especially "TV Nation" and "The Awful Truth" (which I was assigned to watch for homework in one of my classes). Of course, at the time, I was more entertained by the comedy of the shows than the political content, and I thought TV Nation delivered, with "Communism's Farewell Tour", "Crackers, the Corporate Crime Fighting Chicken", and the time they sent a gay choir to sing at Jesse Helms' house.

Of course, then I see his movies, and then hear that he edits things as he see fit and might not be very truthful, and my opinion of him changes. As soon as I heard about Fahrenheit 911, I knew it was going to be trouble for everybody, and, while I know nobody expects him to be objective, he might as well title the movie "Bush Sucks".

This controversy with Disney is brilliant. The movie is getting a ton of press months before its release, and, once again, poor Michael Moore is being beaten down by the corporate world. Where's Crackers when you need him?
CxMorgado
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#34 Posted on 5.5.04 1720.41
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1720.44
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by dwaters
      Why is Michael Moore the only one talking about this? Is he making it up?





    Usually. He has a proud history of distorting facts or, when that fails, just lying. Check out the Moore Watch.


From the Moore Watch:

"Nothing succeeds like success part deux
Author: JimK
Let's review:

Moore: "Nothing that happened today (or in the past 9 months) has made us ONE BIT safer in our post-9/11 world."

al Queda busted up? Check."


So is the guy who runs this site distorting the facts or just lying?

Do you have to take Moore's information with a grain of salt? Yes. But you have to do that with any sort of person/group of people with an agenda, and you can always just check out his sources yourself...

But why should anyone bother to look into what Moore says about a complex issue beyond what he can fit in a 2 hour running time... after all, he's FAT DAMMIT HES FAT AND HAS GREASE FOR BLOOD HES FAT!


(edited by CxMorgado on 5.5.04 1821)
Leroy
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#35 Posted on 5.5.04 2354.22
Reposted on: 5.5.11 2359.03
This whole thing, while irritating, is going to do little to keep the film from being released eventually. And in the long run, it will simply draw more attention to it.

And that Moore Watch website is a pretty hysterical... I almost wonder if Moore set it up himself to make his critics look even worse.
The Thrill
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#36 Posted on 6.5.04 0450.54
Reposted on: 6.5.11 0452.45
    Originally posted by dwaters
    I read "Dude, Where's my Country?" and was pretty shocked by his tales of the Bush administration flying members of the Bin Laden family out of the country while the rest of us were grounded and renting cars to get back to loved ones.
    Why is Michael Moore the only one talking about this? Is he making it up?


I haven't read the book, but here's my understanding: the bin Laden family ostracized Osama for the most part a long time ago. His post-Afghan-vs.-Soviets terror routine seemed pretty un-Islamic to them.

Osama's dad, Muhammad (I think) bin Laden was perhaps the biggest construction contractor in Saudi Arabia, and was very tight with the House of Saud. (That might be another problem for another day.) The family was predominantly against Osama founding Al-Qaeda and going into terrorism.

(Most of that info comes from a book I have; the title of which I can't remember right now...it IS 0445 here, after all.) :-)

Maybe it was those pro-Saud, anti-terror bin Ladens that Bush had flown out of the country...maybe for their own safety? Given how mad we all were (and still are) over 9/11, would you want to walk down the street with the name "bin Laden?" Even if you wore a sandwich board explaining that you're not a terrorist, you'd still get the crap beaten out of you.
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#37 Posted on 6.5.04 0520.46
Reposted on: 6.5.11 0521.10
I've never understood why people put up with Moore and his lies. He's like the liberal Pat Robertson, a brazen idiot who uses mass communication to spout his ignorance and lies, but most conservative people at least acknowledge that Robertson is a jackass. Moore is a tactless asshole who has no respect for anything, the least of which is the truth, and I'll never spend a penny on anything he makes. It's just incredibly strange that most everyday liberals seem to accept the types like him and Chomsky, while as most conservatives distance themselves from the far right.
dwaters
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#38 Posted on 6.5.04 0709.31
Reposted on: 6.5.11 0710.28
Even if you were protecting the "good" Bin Ladens, wouldn't you want to hang on to them for a couple days and question them for any scrap of information they might have about Osama Bin Laden's whereabouts before sending them on their merry way?

As far as Moore, there have been several posts referring to his lies, but nobody is giving any examples. What is he lying about?

People want to blast him for editing his films in a way to promote his agenda. Well, duh. Isn't that the idea?
If I were making a pro-Pepsi film, I wouldn't come out and say, "Well, Coke tastes pretty good, too".
Grimis
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#39 Posted on 6.5.04 0754.22
Reposted on: 6.5.11 0759.08
    Originally posted by dwaters
    People want to blast him for editing his films in a way to promote his agenda. Well, duh. Isn't that the idea?
There is an extreme difference between that and what he is doing. He has an agenda, and he presents things designed to promote that agenda. Moore's problem is that he is a pathological liar, has been caught more times than anybody cares to count, and wonders why nobody relevant takes him seriously.
wmatistic
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#40 Posted on 6.5.04 0756.34
Reposted on: 6.5.11 0759.09
    Originally posted by dwaters
    As far as Moore, there have been several posts referring to his lies, but nobody is giving any examples. What is he lying about?

    People want to blast him for editing his films in a way to promote his agenda. Well, duh. Isn't that the idea?
    If I were making a pro-Pepsi film, I wouldn't come out and say, "Well, Coke tastes pretty good, too".


That's not the same as what he was doing. He was editing it in ways that totally change what really happened.

In Roger and Me he changed the timeline of the events for more dramatic effect and to imply that certain things took place as a direct result of GM's '86 layoffs when in fact they happened well before. In Bowling he changed an old Bush/Quayle ad to make it look horrible, including text like "Willie Horton released. Then kills again". The ad never had that text and Horton in fact did not kill anyone after his release, though he did rape a woman. He also claims all the damn time that we gave $245 million to the Taliban in 2000, which is again a lie. We put forth the money as food and food security programs administered by the UN to help avoid a famine. International Organizations got the money, not the Taliban.

I believe I also read that he didn't actually walk into a bank and get a gun, he had to go somewhere else to get it. In fact I believe he had to fill out the forms and do the standard waiting period before getting the gun, then he took it back to the bank to waive around and then walked out saying on the film that he had a problem when someone could walk into a bank and walk out with a gun. Horrible lie.

In his new book he says: ""while thousands were stranded and could not fly, if you could prove you were a close relative of the biggest mass murderer in U.S. history, you got a free trip to gay Paree!"" Again a lie. They were not allowed to leave until after the FAA permitted flights to continue, and they chartered their own plane.

""Clark has said that he received phone calls on Sept. 11 and in the weeks after from people at 'think tanks' and from people within the White House telling him to use his position as a pundit for CNN to 'connect' Sept. 11 to Saddam Hussein."" Again, a lie. Clark himself has said he got one call from a think tank, not from the White House, not multiple calls.

About the Bush tax cut in 2003, ""Take the kids in Oregon, whose schools were shut down early this year because they ran out of tax money."" Basically saying Bush shut down the schools there. When in fact earlier that year Oregon had passed a law the seperated the state income tax system from the federal governments, effectivly making sure the tax cut would have zero impact on the state. Not to mention the voters then turned down a tax increase that would have kept the schools open.

Anyway, are you getting the idea? There are tons more examples. Just search on google and you'll find them everywhere.



(edited by wmatistic on 6.5.04 1434)
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