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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Dole Says Kerry Medals Flap Doesn't Matter Register and log in to post!
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spf
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#1 Posted on 3.5.04 1258.30
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1258.37
First McCain, now Dole. Seems the only people who get all up in arms criticizing Kerry's war record are people who have never seen any actual combat themselves. Link is here (news.yahoo.com)

Presidential Elections - AP

Dole Rises to Kerry's Defense Over Vietnam
Mon May 3, 7:19 AM ET

By JENNIFER C. KERR, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Former Sen. Bob Dole isn't making much of the controversy over whether decorated Vietnam veteran John Kerry (news - web sites) threw away his medals or ribbons during a 1971 anti-war protest.

When it comes to choosing a president, "I don't think it matters," Dole, the Republican candidate for president in 1996 and a veteran whose arm was badly injured in World War II, told Fox New Sunday.


Kerry returned from Vietnam an outspoken critic of the war. For years, he has said he threw away his ribbons, not his three Purple Hearts, Bronze Star and Silver Star during a protest at the U.S. Capitol. But a tape surfaced last week of a television interview he gave shortly after the protest in which he suggested that he tossed more than just the ribbons.


"I think some of the things he said were probably not very good judgment," Dole said of the Democrat, "but he was a much younger man then without much experience in public life."


Kerry maintains that he used the terms ribbons and medals interchangeably.


Still, Dole said Kerry might have trouble explaining his anti-war activities, particularly to veterans. "He made his point, and he's going to have to live with it," said Dole.


Asked why Vietnam is a hot-button issue these days, Dole said, "I'm not certain it's that red hot of a button."


Other Republicans, namely Bush adviser Karen Hughes, have chastised Kerry for "pretending" to throw away the medals.


Kerry responded to the criticism by lashing out at President Bush (news - web sites) for failing to put to rest questions about his National Guard service during the Vietnam era. His comments came a day after Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) went on the offensive, questioning whether Kerry was weak on national security.


To Dole, the 2004 campaign is "getting pretty hot pretty early" and has "gotten very personal."


"It ought to slow down, cool off a while," he observed. "The American people aren't going to listen if that's all they hear every day is criticism and name-calling by the Bush team or by the Kerry team."



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Grimis
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#2 Posted on 3.5.04 1340.01
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1341.42
Kerry would be in a lot better shape if he would just stop lying about it and a bunch of other things he's gotten caught up in. It's true; people don't care that Kerry threw away his ribbons. His problem is a credibility problem, and his problem is that he has none.
CRZ
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#3 Posted on 3.5.04 1341.33
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1342.33
    Originally posted by spf2119
    First McCain, now Dole. Seems the only people who get all up in arms criticizing Kerry's war record are people who have never seen any actual combat themselves.
Regarding the medals/ribbons flap, I would suggest that it's mostly journalists who are interested in the story. The press tends to take an unkind attitude when (the collective) they feel they are being or have been lied to.
ThreepMe
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#4 Posted on 3.5.04 1344.41
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1346.51
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Kerry would be in a lot better shape if he would just stop lying about it and a bunch of other things he's gotten caught up in. It's true; people don't care that Kerry threw away his ribbons. His problem is a credibility problem, and his problem is that he has none.


Maybe Kerry is just trying to catch up to Bush on the "Liar" front. You know, just make it more interesting...

/sarcasm
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#5 Posted on 3.5.04 1522.57
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1523.32
I am disappointed about Kerry's willingness to tell the truth on this. However, its a different type of lie then say leading troops into a warzone without just cause or exit strategy. Just keeping everything in perspective.
Whitebacon
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#6 Posted on 3.5.04 1718.36
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1721.06
    Originally posted by A Fan
    I am disappointed about Kerry's willingness to tell the truth on this. However, its a different type of lie then say leading troops into a warzone without just cause or exit strategy. Just keeping everything in perspective.


Not that it is any better, but the way you have that worded, both of your "lies" come across as just bad planning. The WMD's (or lack thereof) may be a lie, or, it may really just be poor intelligence and poor planning and "strategery"(same goes for lack of an exit strategy).
Maniac
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#7 Posted on 4.5.04 1603.54
Reposted on: 4.5.11 1605.04
Protesting and Demonstrating against the war in Vietnam was what all kids his age were doing. Free Love and Peace at home while the dead bodies where mounting overseas, with no end in sight for a war going badly.

Medals are a symbol of bravery and if he received them once they are always due to him. Dole and McCain know this.

Replacement Medal are probably sent out daily by the Military, especially to a United States Senator.

They are his Medals.
RYDER FAKIN
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#8 Posted on 4.5.04 1710.36
Reposted on: 4.5.11 1710.41
Protesting and Demonstrating against the war in Vietnam was what all kids his age were doing. Free Love and Peace at home while the dead bodies where mounting overseas, with no end in sight for a war going badly.

No they were not...but many were getting spit on, called names and other really cool things like that.

Medals are a symbol of bravery and if he received them once they are always due to him. Dole and McCain know this.

Dole and McCain are unreasonbly nice, decent people and politically smart.

Replacement Medal are probably sent out daily by the Military, especially to a United States Senator.

Especially in Kerry's case! Protestin' is in his blood and he needs *something* to throw! If he had a fucking spine like he claims, he would be at the next Organized Peace Rally. Or maybe his youthful exuberance is now...I'll save that one - I'm still not convinced the Democrats are going to nominate this prick...

They are his Medals.

No, they are symbols of bravery bestowed by the military. He made his choice. Why he is wrapping himself in the flag now is the only point of contention - and has turned off just about every die hard donkey voting Democrat I know. Oh yeah, because he was there and GWB wasn't. That ceratinly explains it for me...now I feel bad for hating the son of a bitch my whole life.

FLEA
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#9 Posted on 5.5.04 0238.01
Reposted on: 5.5.11 0238.17
Once again, a prominent Republican is standing up and trying to point out to everyone that this medals issue is absolutely asinine. I applaud him for seeing through this Karl Rove bullshit.


And maybe I can help straighten up some confusion over the medal thing. When the military awards you a medal they give a certificate and a medal AND a ribbon. You out the Ribbons on your everyday Uniform, and you wear the medals only on special occasions on your dress uniform. If you LOSE a ribbon/ medal (or toss it symbolically in protest) you can go to any Military exchange and buy more. Its that easy. The Medal/ribbon once awarded is part of your uniform, you cant really get rid of it if you wanted to. its yours forever.


Flea claims to know alot of demos who are turned off by Kerry's conduct after Vietnam. Id like to meet them. It was explained to me that a great portion of the country was against Vietnam, not just the protesting "hippies." Even ordinary Americans didn't think very highly of the government or our servicemen. The mood of the nation was different so its impossible to try to judge someones actions from 30 years ago now.


And that also go to something that alot of Military people have known for awhile. The truth is that a good number of people don't think very highly of military people. Yeah they call us brave heroes and patriots but deep down alot of them think we are stupid to serve. Which is where some of the Pat Tillman backlash grows from. People basically see him as a damn fool for giving up an easy millionaire athletes life, to defend his country. You don't know how many times Ive met people who think I was an idiot to join the Navy. "you're too smart for that" they've told me. My friend Billy, who is in the Army,gets worse. There's still a stigma around Military service that the only reason some of us are in is because we were too stupid for college, or that we had to join to stay out of jail. And it was worse post-Vietnam. In my community, here in Hampton Roads where there are seven Major military posts and quarter million servicemen, we were HATED in the 1970s by our neighbors. "No dogs or Sailors on the grass" were signs in peoples yards. And this is in a Military community that this hate is happening. What do you think it was like in other places? This is the mood of the country that guys were coming back to. Morale in the military was in the absolute shit house, drug use and crime were up among servicemen.It was a bad time. I'm rambling but my point is, the mood of the USA was different then. There was a backlash against servicemen and there was a backlash BY servicemen, because they felt betrayed by their country and their government.
Grimis
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#10 Posted on 5.5.04 0643.10
Reposted on: 5.5.11 0644.18
How come everybody wants to talk about the act of throwing the medals but not about the fact that he has repeatedly lied about it for 33 years?
DrDirt
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#11 Posted on 5.5.04 0821.52
Reposted on: 5.5.11 0822.05
    Originally posted by Maniac
    Protesting and Demonstrating against the war in Vietnam was what all kids his age were doing. Free Love and Peace at home while the dead bodies where mounting overseas, with no end in sight for a war going badly.

    Medals are a symbol of bravery and if he received them once they are always due to him. Dole and McCain know this.

    Replacement Medal are probably sent out daily by the Military, especially to a United States Senator.

    They are his Medals.


Having actually lived throught he era, I would secong the opinion that not everybody was doing it. I would also point out he wasn't a "kid" but an adult.

This is why Dole and McCain didn't make it in presidential politics, they strive to be fair and balanced, willing to work with the "opposition", and unwilling to smear to win.
RYDER FAKIN
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#12 Posted on 5.5.04 1053.53
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1054.06
Flea claims to know alot of demos who are turned off by Kerry's conduct after Vietnam. Id like to meet them.

Just watch the DNC convention. And the exit polls in Novermber if he makes it that far. I think the main reason this isn't a major story is most people who served at that time are not real enthralled about reliving that part of their lives via World News Tonight - but they will vote.

It was explained to me that a great portion of the country was against Vietnam, not just the protesting "hippies." Even ordinary Americans didn't think very highly of the government or our servicemen. The mood of the nation was different so its impossible to try to judge someones actions from 30 years ago now.

And a good portion of why many returning members of the military were treated like shit is SPECIFICALLY due to John Kerry. Unpopular war, yes - times, they were a changin back then...but it's a far leap to alienate young men who served based upon the testimony...ugh - why HIM? (because he ain't Bush, people say)...

This is why Dole and McCain didn't make it in presidential politics, they strive to be fair and balanced, willing to work with the "opposition", and unwilling to smear to win.

Well, half of that is right. But Dole and McCain are not exactly saints when it comes to playing hardball politics. And the quicker people get over the myth that a "vast right wing" conspiracy is "smearing" Kerry, the better. His problem is him. I can't wait until the debates...

FLEA
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#13 Posted on 5.5.04 1224.43
Reposted on: 5.5.11 1227.38
Flea, Dole and McCain have played hardball. Living in Kansas for 12+ years, the knock on him was he was too nice and willing to treat the opposition like people, not evil incarnate. I am a liberal Dem but I think the conspiracy crap is just that.

The real reason we "lost" the war was threefold. We didn't win the hearts and minds of the population in Vietnam, supported one corrupt regime after another never leading to democracy, and were never able to justify the war tot he AMerican people.
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