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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Another Asshat slams Tillman
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StaggerLee
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#1 Posted on 3.5.04 1223.26
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1224.05
http://www.msnbc.com/ comics/editorial_content.asp? sFile=tr040503

Only this is in Cartoon form.
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CRZ
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#2 Posted on 3.5.04 1228.58
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1229.01
This doesn't belong in Football (or possibly anywhere else)
drjayphd
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#3 Posted on 3.5.04 1307.20
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1309.24
Normally I'd defend Rall, but this time, he's a moron. I'm guessing he doesn't know anything about him besides he was in the NFL, so I'll spare some righteous indignation.
Grimis
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#4 Posted on 3.5.04 1452.43
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1452.47
Slate took the cartoon down...quickly.
Barbwire Mike
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#5 Posted on 3.5.04 1537.46
Reposted on: 3.5.11 1537.49
For information purposes only, here's a link to the cartoon in question. It's so unbelievably slanted it's almost like the artist was HOPING it would get the same heat that music major did:

"Never mind the fine print. Will I get to kill Arabs?"

And the MSNBC/Slate response:

Why we pulled Monday's Ted Rall cartoon

Item did not meet MSNBC standards of fairness and taste

MSNBC.com pulled a cartoon by syndicated political cartoonist Ted Rall on Monday.

Ralls cartoon, distributed widely by United Press Syndicate to scores of newspapers and Web sites, concerned the late Pat Tillman, the NFL player who quit football to join the Army. Tillman was killed last month in Afghanistan.

The cartoon, like others on MSNBC.com, is published daily on the site via an automated syndication feed. Such feeds are rarely reviewed. However, MSNBC.com Editor in chief Dean Wright concluded Mondays Rall item did not meet MSNBC.com standards of fairness and taste.
Joseph Ryder
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#6 Posted on 4.5.04 0249.18
Reposted on: 4.5.11 0249.57
And to be fair, here's the other side (www.tedrall.com).


"Today's cartoon is getting a lot of coverage from right-wing media outlets as well as more legitimate ones like Editor & Publisher. As is often the case in these situations, it's impossible to reply to each email individually, so I'll just say what I have to say here.

My cartoon is a reaction to the extraordinary lionizing of Mr. Tillman as a national hero. First of all, the media's decision to genuflect to a cult of death is terrifyingly similar to the cult of Palestinian suicide bombers in the Middle East and the glorious coverage given by the Japanese during World War II to fallen kamikaze fighters. Nowhere has this excessive praise for the act of voluntary death been more extreme than in Mr. Tillman's case.

The purpose of a political cartoon is to stimulate discussion, and there was no discussion about America's post-9/11 death cult.

Second, Mr. Tillman served an evil president and an evil cause. Anyone with an open mind after 9/11 could easily have learned the truth, that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq occured instead of a war on terror, not as part of one. A person who planned to risk his life in combat should reasonably be expected to dig a little deeper rather than to fall for Bush's transparent lies. We all judge each other, and while Tillman's decision to sacrifice millions of dollars for his beliefs is admirable, his belief that killing the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan had something to do with defending America was not. At best, Tillman was foolish and misguided.

Finally, it's time for troops who signed up post-9/11 to take a little personal responsibility. It's one thing for a career soldier to go where the politicians tell him or her to go, but quite another to join the military when the "president" is an illegal usurper occupying the White House, he's an out-of-control warmonger using the deaths in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania to promote a partisan political agenda and his wars are nothing more than grabs for control of oil and gas resources and pipeline routes. Liberals tend to let volunteer soldiers off the hook, but let's not forget the hard, cold truth:

If no one had enlisted after 9/11, we wouldn't be fighting these immoral wars based on lies and greed now."
Jonny_English
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#7 Posted on 4.5.04 0403.54
Reposted on: 4.5.11 0404.32
Ted Rails' reply is probably the most succinct analysis of this issue I have ever read.
Whitebacon
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#8 Posted on 4.5.04 0438.54
Reposted on: 4.5.11 0439.22
Ugh. I believe the word "hyperbole" is what I'm looking for when I read Mr. Ralls explanation. I find that cartoon to be offensive to the memory of this man that did something that he truely believed in when he signed up. To run this man down, and others like him to push across a political agenda sickens me.

(A little background)Having grown up in a military family, and having many friends presently serving in various branches in the military (Army, Navy, Marines, and Air National Guard - and all of them have seen duty in the middle east, thankfully, I haven't had to attend a funeral), he probably still believed that what he was doing was right. I saw one of my good friends the other night that is in the Marines, and part of him actually wants to go back over there, and this was after me expressing to him (selfishly) that I didn't want him going back over. I was fortunate that my dad was too young for Vietnam, and was medically discharged about six months before Desert Storm broke out in 1990. My grandfather, however, did two tours in Korea in the infantry, and two tours in Vietnam with the Army Corps of Engineers. I was glad to have known him for the short amount of time that I did, but he died eight years ago, before I really had the opportunity to talk to him about anything of real importance.

Going into Iraq is and was a questionable decision, I concede this. But, as far as I know, Afgahnistan is where Al-Qaeda bases its operation. Going in there and looking for the fuckers that were behind the World Trade Center attacks is NOT serving an evil cause. It's doing something to defend the place we live. Yes, I believe it is actually defending my country's best interest as opposed to running around killing a bunch of Afghani civilians seemingly at random. This is the impression I get from Mr. Rall.

It's almost four years later, calling the President an "illegal usurper occupying the White House," is not only old, but stupid and doesn't address anything relevant regarding the rest of the issue at hand. Again, it is just pushing his own agenda, and it looks like it is working well for him. Good for him, it is America, and he does have that right after all. All I know is, is that I'd never heard of this guy before he drew this stupid cartoon, and I hope I never have to hear about him again.
Jonny_English
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#9 Posted on 4.5.04 0623.40
Reposted on: 4.5.11 0623.48
Referring to dubya as an "illegal usurper occupying the White House" may be old, but is accurate, and relevant to almost every discussion on this board, and every policy decision made by the US government.

I agree with you, Whitebacon, that the move into Afghanistan had greater justification than the move into Iraq. However, the entire operation still has the flavour of a knee-jerk we will because we can botch. Considering the might and technology of the US military machine it is more than reasonable to suggest that if dubya had been content to play the waiting game, he could've had al-qaeda on a plate by now. Instead he had to make a show of doing something, which in turn has cost countless Afghan and Iraqi lives.

Anyone who fights a cause that they believe in, be they suicide bombers, US or British soldiers, usurpers (Bush) or foolish ideologists (Blair) lay themselves open to scrutiny, and in turn, political satire. The cartoon doesn't represent an attack on Tillman, merely an attack on the stupidity of those who wildly jump on the bandwagon. Tillman, or more appropriately, his family, suffer from his fame, in that he is a recognizable name for the satirists to latch on to to make their point. Incidentally, I too am from a military family.
Grimis
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#10 Posted on 4.5.04 0629.36
Reposted on: 4.5.11 0630.31
    Originally posted by Jonny_English
    Referring to dubya as an "illegal usurper occupying the White House" may be old, but is accurate,
OH for Chirst's sake Gore lost four years ago people. Get over it.

And for this asshole Rall to link the death of Pat Tillman to the 2000 election shows how people like him have no class and will sacrafice anything for the sake of adhering to the agenda...

There's not rationalizing with uneducated morons like Rall.

(edited by Grimis on 4.5.04 0733)
The Amazing Salami
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#11 Posted on 4.5.04 0833.04
Reposted on: 4.5.11 0833.07
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by Jonny_English
      Referring to dubya as an "illegal usurper occupying the White House" may be old, but is accurate,
    OH for Chirst's sake Gore lost four years ago people. Get over it.



      And also (concerning the legality of our president) wasn't it the United States Supreme Court that made the final decision?? Not that I was happy with it, but still, it definitely is not illegal. That's just dumb.

      (edited by The Amazing Salami on 4.5.04 0635)
Corajudo
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#12 Posted on 4.5.04 0836.49
Reposted on: 4.5.11 0838.00
    Originally posted by Jonny_English
    Ted Rails' reply is probably the most succinct analysis of this issue I have ever read.


I was going to say that his explanation is even more offensive, not to mention ignorant, than his cartoon. And, I'm someone who doesn't like Bush or most of what he's done as President.
ThreepMe
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#13 Posted on 4.5.04 1602.18
Reposted on: 4.5.11 1602.49
(deleted by CRZ on 4.5.04 1408)
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