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The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Kerry's Records have Discrepencies Register and log in to post!
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Grimis
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#1 Posted on 23.4.04 1025.15
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1028.59
Is anybody surprised by this, incidentally? The campaign of the King of the Flip Flops can't even get this right.

Sad...

* * * * * * *

Discrepancies noted in Kerry's record
Ex-skipper says website wrong
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | April 23, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Vietnam combat records posted on John F. Kerry's campaign website for the month of January 1969 as evidence of his service aboard swift boat No. 94 describe action that occurred before Kerry was skipper of that craft, according to the officer who said he commanded the boat at the time.

On the site, the Massachusetts senator is described as the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 during several actions in late January 1969.

However, Edward Peck, who was the skipper of the 94 before Kerry took over, said combat reports posted by the campaign for January 1969 involve action when he was the skipper, not Kerry. Peck, who was seriously wounded in fighting that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, said he believes Kerry campaign aides made a mistake in claiming Kerry as skipper of the 94 at that time.

On the Kerry website, the report of the combat on that day on the 94 boat is posted as occurring during Kerry's time as skipper of the boat. Peck said Kerry replaced him after the Jan. 29, 1969, event.

"Those are definitely mine," Peck said, referring to the combat reports that the Kerry campaign posted as representing Kerry's action. "There is no doubt about it."

A Kerry campaign spokesman, Michael Meehan, said in an e-mail that the campaign had obtained the combat reports for the 94 from the Navy. He did not directly address the question of why the campaign describes Kerry being skipper of the 94 at a time when Peck says he commanded the boat.

The reports at issue are in a 20-page batch representing Kerry's combat in January 1969. The reports include references to some dramatic action, including an ambush of Patrol Craft Fast, or PCF, 94. In addition to posting the information online, the campaign sent out an e-mail yesterday afternoon repeating the claim that Kerry was the skipper of the 94 boat throughout January and describing action the campaign said Kerry experienced while commanding the craft.

For example, in a summary of action that occurred Jan. 26, 1969, the campaign says Kerry served on boat No. 94 alongside another boat, No. 66. "PCFs 94 and 66 escorted troops up the Ong Doc River early in the morning when they were ambushed by gun and rocket fire from approximately 40 men on both sides of the river," the campaign summary says. "Two B-40 rounds hit close to Kerry's boat, while PCF 66 received 2 B-40 rocket hits. Three men on PCF66 were wounded. A junk containing South Vietnamese troops was also sunk, killing 11 South Vietnamese troops. Intelligence reports after the mission indicated that the Viet Cong troops may have planned the ambush in advance."

Peck said he was the skipper of the 94 at this time and that Kerry was not on the craft. While combat reports show several boats traveling with the 94, the campaign website says only that Kerry was the skipper of the 94 and does not try to place him on the other boats.

In another report, the campaign summarizes action that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, this way: "While Kerry's boat and another [PCF72] were probing a canal along the river, Kerry's boat came under heavy fire and was hit by a B-40 rocket in the cabin area. One member of Kerry's crew -- Forward Gunner David Alston -- suffered shrapnel wounds in his head. His injuries were not considered serious and he was sent to the 29th Evac Hospital at Binh Thuy."

Peck said he was the skipper on this day as well. Peck was also injured in the ambush and was hospitalized.

As a result, Kerry then took over the crew, Peck said. The Navy combat report posted by the Kerry campaign states that Peck and Alston were injured in the same event. There is no mention of Kerry in that report.

Kerry's commanding officer, George Elliott, said in a telephone interview that he vividly recalls Peck's injury and hospitalization and Kerry's replacement of Peck. "I think somebody made a mistake who doesn't know" the timing of Kerry's service, Elliott said. Kerry was skipper of boat No. 44 in December and January before taking over command of the 94, he said.
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The Amazing Salami
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#2 Posted on 23.4.04 1026.21
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1029.00
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Is anybody surprised by this?


That you would post an anti-Kerry article? Not in the least.
DrOp
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#3 Posted on 23.4.04 1046.01
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1047.31
And why exactly do we care about these types of things when almost everyone has something to hide or would have some "discrepancy" if they listed their life events?

I guess we could call him a liar, but can't we say that about all of the recent American Presidents (and hopefuls)?
ThreepMe
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#4 Posted on 23.4.04 1109.36
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1113.23
Lots of "He said..." and no "Kerry's reports, in contrast to other official reports..."

Well heck, if we're going to go by "he said..." then...

I served with Geroge Bush in the battle of...Oh wait, neither of us ever served in battle.




(edited by ThreepMe on 23.4.04 0910)
astrobstrd
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#5 Posted on 23.4.04 1135.17
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1137.46
I really wish BOTH parties would drop this Vietnam shit. It was 35 fucking years ago. If you're basing your vote off of what these guys did 35 years ago (and how they're spinning it to get your vote) that's just sad. I realize the war was very important to everyone involved, but guess what? There are a PLETHORA of current issues to hate either guy on. Believe it or not, people can change over the course of 35 years.
DrDirt
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#6 Posted on 23.4.04 1212.59
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1219.35
    Originally posted by astrobstrd
    I really wish BOTH parties would drop this Vietnam shit. It was 35 fucking years ago. If you're basing your vote off of what these guys did 35 years ago (and how they're spinning it to get your vote) that's just sad. I realize the war was very important to everyone involved, but guess what? There are a PLETHORA of current issues to hate either guy on. Believe it or not, people can change over the course of 35 years.


The reason it won't disappear is simple. The Republicans have spent most of the last 30 years painting Dem's as spineless, antipatriotic doves who abhor the military and service to country in the armed services. Kerry is trying to blunt this and the Rep's are bent on continuing the propaganda. You are 100% correct but politicians have no desire to go there.
Grimis
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#7 Posted on 23.4.04 1251.55
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1252.41
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    The Republicans have spent most of the last 30 years painting Dem's as spineless, antipatriotic doves who abhor the military and service to country in the armed services.
Except most of it doesn't take a lot of work. I wish that we had to do this to the Democrats. But most of the time the far-left Democrats identify themselves freely as spineless doves.

Kerry's war record and his Purple Hearts for scratches business doesn't help his or any other Democrat's cause to defeat this image as being spineless. Now obviously there are a lot of Democrats who serve and pay a great price(Max Cleland being first and foremost). But that does not diminish the fact that the Democratic Party as a whole is weak-kneed on defense and would rather turn our security over to the UN rather than take care of it ourselves...
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#8 Posted on 23.4.04 1314.44
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1315.23
(deleted by CRZ on 23.4.04 1907)
spf
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#9 Posted on 23.4.04 1316.03
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1316.20
    Originally posted by Grimis
    But that does not diminish the fact that the Democratic Party as a whole is weak-kneed on defense and would rather turn our security over to the UN rather than take care of it ourselves...

Oh for the love of cake that is ridiculous. Even for a straw man this one is devoid of any tie to reality. Find me one prominent Dem who has ever put forward anything while in high office (as opposed to drudging up something they said in a student newspaper 30 years ago) about turning US security over to the UN, or any prominent Dem who has ever proposed serious cuts to the military to the point where we would no longer be able to be interventionist. Apparently there are only two options in this worldview: arm to the teeth and invade anyone who looks at you cross-eyed, or sit in a circle singing folk songs and hugging your enemies. But wait, I forgot that's from the same camp that says anyone who is against the war in Iraq is in favor of terrorism.
DrDirt
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#10 Posted on 23.4.04 1411.54
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1412.07
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      The Republicans have spent most of the last 30 years painting Dem's as spineless, antipatriotic doves who abhor the military and service to country in the armed services.
    Except most of it doesn't take a lot of work. I wish that we had to do this to the Democrats. But most of the time the far-left Democrats identify themselves freely as spineless doves.

    Kerry's war record and his Purple Hearts for scratches business doesn't help his or any other Democrat's cause to defeat this image as being spineless. Now obviously there are a lot of Democrats who serve and pay a great price(Max Cleland being first and foremost). But that does not diminish the fact that the Democratic Party as a whole is weak-kneed on defense and would rather turn our security over to the UN rather than take care of it ourselves...


"far-left Democrats" The last time I checked, most aren't anymore than most Republicans are "far-right." The last Rep President that served was I believe Ford (Nixon for sure) and for the Dem's Carter. I am not counting the Guard. I find it amazing that the most hawkish people tend to never have served while many doves actually saw combat.

(edited by DrDirt on 23.4.04 1412)
fuelinjected
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#11 Posted on 23.4.04 1451.03
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1451.12
It's utterly disgusting to me to see the way Republicans try to rip apart John Kerry's service. It shouldn't be surprising, they did it to one of their own - John McCain, too.

Even if Kerry had no purple hearts or no war wounds, he served two tours of duty for his country. He went to a war where something like 60,000 US men lost their lives. The fact that he went, served, and survived should be impressive enough.

It's amazing to me that George W. Bush was allowed to change from a drunk driving male cheerleader into an abysmal businessman into a Jesus freak and be accepted as a strong leader with a vision! Yet John Kerry went to war, hated what he saw, spoke out against it, has an open mind about issues and policies, and is a "flip flopper".
Grimis
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#12 Posted on 23.4.04 1453.07
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1453.52
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Yet John Kerry went to war, hated what he saw, spoke out against it, has an open mind about issues and policies, and is a "flip flopper".
You meant to say "lied about what he saw" about the war incidentally.

And realistically, I don't see why it's a big deal for him to characterized as a flip-flopper when he has taken a position on both sides of numerous political issues...
ThreepMe
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#13 Posted on 23.4.04 1503.20
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1507.43
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by fuelinjected
      Yet John Kerry went to war, hated what he saw, spoke out against it, has an open mind about issues and policies, and is a "flip flopper".
    You meant to say "lied about what he saw" about the war incidentally.

    And realistically, I don't see why it's a big deal for him to characterized as a flip-flopper when he has taken a position on both sides of numerous political issues...


So far the best the Anti-Kerry people have is "Flip-Flopper" with a potential reporting error with his service.

At best, he's a war hero.

At worst, Bush is an ex-coke addict, alcoholic, has a DWI, ran several businesses into the ground, dodged combat by getting put into the softer National Guard, has "lied about what he saw" to the American public about WMDs, and has overseen one of the worst economic situations in recent history.

At best...he's GHB's son.

Yeah...Not even close. Nice try tho, Grimis. You do know that for each post you criticize for being "Far-Left" or "Anti-Bush" you are just as guilty as being "Far-Right" and "Pro-Bush."

Pot and kettle...pot and kettle.
Von Maestro
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#14 Posted on 23.4.04 1504.11
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1508.54
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    The last Rep President that served was I believe Ford (Nixon for sure)


Doc-
What about George H.W. Bush...?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ history/presidents/gb41.html
Grimis
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#15 Posted on 23.4.04 1505.29
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1509.23
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    >So far the best the Anti-Kerry people have is "Flip-Flopper" with a potential reporting error with his service.
So you trust a guy who stands for nothing?
Zeruel
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#16 Posted on 23.4.04 1508.24
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1509.44
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
      >So far the best the Anti-Kerry people have is "Flip-Flopper" with a potential reporting error with his service.
    So you trust a guy who stands for nothing?


All my anti-Bush friends are going to vote Bush. They just can't stand Kerry's flip-flopping, and don't like any of the "third party" people.

My friends hate the war(s), hate his policies, hate his father, hate Reagan, hate Republicans, but feel that Kerry is just a big fat liar.
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#17 Posted on 23.4.04 1524.39
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1524.39
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
      >So far the best the Anti-Kerry people have is "Flip-Flopper" with a potential reporting error with his service.
    So you trust a guy who stands for nothing?


Well, not that I even agree with the idea that Kerry stands for nothing and I feel that you have a tendency to spin words into people's mouths being that I said NOTHING about "trust."

There's an old Zen saying...I am scared of the man who thinks he is absolute in his knowledge.

If given the choice of a man who I KNOW will lead me the wrong way or a man who I KNOW will at least consider both paths, I'll choose the man who considers both paths. That way, he is at least bendable enough to reconsider his actions if he makes the wrong move.

At this point, Kerry is the lesser of two evils.
Von Maestro
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#18 Posted on 23.4.04 1533.10
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1533.33
    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    There's an old Zen saying...I am scared of the man who thinks he is absolute in his knowledge.

    If given the choice of a man who I KNOW will lead me the wrong way...


Um, what was that Zen saying again...? :-)
Grimis
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#19 Posted on 23.4.04 1535.04
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1536.37
As far as I'm concerned, when I vote I'm voting for the person I trust to do a better job than the other guys. Why would anybody waste a vote on John Kerry when he says such brilliant things as "I voted for the war, before I voted against it."

    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    If given the choice of a man who I KNOW will lead me the wrong way or a man who I KNOW will at least consider both paths, I'll choose the man who considers both paths. That way, he is at least bendable enough to reconsider his actions if he makes the wrong move.
It's one thing to 'consider' both paths, but somebody who has changed position on damn near every issue of importance, and will lie to you about it, doesn't deserve anyone's vote.

It's bad enough he is a major party nominee, but John Kerry is a disgrace to the United States Senate as well.


(edited by CRZ on 23.4.04 1919)
ThreepMe
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#20 Posted on 23.4.04 1559.27
Reposted on: 23.4.11 1602.07
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
      Originally posted by ThreepMe
      There's an old Zen saying...I am scared of the man who thinks he is absolute in his knowledge.

      If given the choice of a man who I KNOW will lead me the wrong way...


    Um, what was that Zen saying again...? :-)



I take it the irony wasn't lost on you.

Actually, there's a bit more to it in the respect of "I can know me, but I cannot know anyone else..." But I don't really want to go into all of it.

But the gist is, GWB thinks he KNOWS what he doing is right. To himself (and apparently many more) he's infallible. (he has made mistakes but can't think of them as per his Press Meeting)

No one person is without error.


"It's one thing to 'consider' both paths, but somebody who has changed position on damn near every issue of importance, and will lie to you about it, doesn't deserve anyone's vote.

It's bad enough he is a major party nominee, but John Kerry is a disgrace to the United States Senate as well."

Personally, I haven't seen the evidence that says he's flip-flopped on EVERY issue of importance. Unless I see it, I'm going to chalk this up as another over-exaggerated, spun to death, conclusionatory statement.

And I haven't seen the evidence that says he's lied about it either.

Not like WMD's and GWB and his Admin.

and Grimis, you may want to not quote Kerry in a bad way when there is a plethora of bad quotes from GWB.

And I'm going to vote for the guy who I think will do the better job. GWB has proved time and time again that he can't get the job done in anything. He's a lot of bluster, he'll even take actions, but he has yet to fulfill any of his major tasks since becoming President (i.e. Osama, War on Terror, Economy, Unemployment, etc). In fact I can hardly think of ANYTHING that he's successfully accomplished while in office. He has half-assed all of it.

(edited by ThreepMe on 23.4.04 1400)
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