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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Jericho Must Retain On Sunday
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Texas Kelly
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#1 Posted on 15.3.02 1641.09
Reposted on: 15.3.09 1659.01
*broken record mode on*

If Jericho does not walk out of Wrestlemania still the champion, then Vince McMahon is not only clinically insane as a character on TV but in real life as well.

The reasoning is quite simple. Vince has been delaying, and delaying, and delaying the time to make a new main-eventer. Well, ladies and gentlemen, Vince just ran out of time. Why? Look at the title situation. Other than Jericho, there are absolutely no legitimate title-holding heels to be had. None. Zippo. Zilch. Nada.

The Triplets (Austin, Rock, Triple H) are all faces, and because of the way the storylines have been progressing, none of them can be turned heel anytime in the near future without experiencing a complete gap in logic. Kurt Angle is a great heel but his title legitimacy has been destroyed by two completely ineptly-handled title reigns. The Undertaker will not be accepted as world champion because of his age. Neither will any member of the NWO, and not only because of age, but because of the extreme probability of the title becoming a domain of political haggling again. Booker T hasn't gotten a clean win on a PPV yet (which says something about how he'd be treated).

Nothing. Nobody legitimate. Except Jericho.

Of course, sans the last week of buildup, Jericho and the titles have been made to be completely unimportant to the Wrestlemania match. The whole story has been about Triple H, Stephanie and that damn divorce. If Vince gives the title to Triple H now, Jericho's legitimacy as a champion will be completely destroyed because of the way he's been treated leading up to the match. Conversely, if Jericho is put over by Triple H on Sunday, it will be the final shove that gets Jericho over the top. He'd be in exclusive company as a heel-retaining champion at Wrestlemania, and the sky would be the limit.

That's the kind of possibility Vince needs now. Otherwise, going into the split, there will be NO title-legitimate heels for the Triplets to chase. None. And that will be the death of the WWF, because the fans won't care.

Jericho must go over Sunday. Period. Or the Fed is dead.

C'mon guys... tell me how this doesn't make sense.
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Jaguar
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#2 Posted on 15.3.02 1657.33
Reposted on: 15.3.09 1659.08
Let me point at what I said just the other day in my WM X8: The Title Match thread.

Yes Jericho must retain, but in the end I see it working much better with a successful double turn and letting Jericho leave as the face (but almost a tweener heel) champ, and Triple H screwed by his own machinations. Who cares if that would leave the Steph/Triple H divorce thing with enough plot holes to drive a semi through. I would be happy that the damn divorce is done with. I would be happy that the Face (JERICHO!) left as champ. I would be happy that Heel Triple H finally got his dues. I would be happy that we would end up with a really cool Jericho/Triple H program after Wrestlemania rather than a Steph/Triple H program. In short, I would be happy.


The WWF seems to hate it when I'm happy, so they'll never do this.

-Jag
shea
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#3 Posted on 16.3.02 1123.54
Reposted on: 16.3.09 1124.24

I'd only be happy if, after retaining his title, Jericho blows off Steph with an "I don't need you, I never did" promo. My happiness then sets in when this results in the complete absence of Steph from my TV screen for the next month.

And then, of course, Jericho would join the nWo so that The Poison would control the title through him. But that's another story.
ges7184
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#4 Posted on 16.3.02 1209.25
Reposted on: 16.3.09 1212.34
Shea, I don't know about the nWo, but I like the idea of Y2J winning, and turning on Steph afterwards. He HAS to dump her. I actually thought that the idea of them joining together was OK, but the execution has been horrible. Instead of making it a true partnership, Steph has been made into the dominate figure. And Jericho has been virtually allowed no mike time to promote the match (and his promos had been getting very good up to the point where Hurricane Steph took over).

Now I don't know how he turns on Steph without getting a face reaction, but who cares. He has to do it anyway, he can get his heel heat back later.
210
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#5 Posted on 16.3.02 1218.50
Reposted on: 16.3.09 1220.04
Jericho doesnt need to win to stay a big heel, hes carried his title over, what, 3 or 4 PPV's now? Thats long enough. The measuring stick for a heel cannot be judged off of WM wins and title defenses, because that would mean we would have MAYBE 3 heels in the history of the FED.

I understand saying you WANT Jericho to win, but saying the FED is gonna die if he doesnt is a bit silly, at least to me.
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#6 Posted on 16.3.02 1236.17
Reposted on: 16.3.09 1259.01
I think the Rock can be turned heel. It would make sense
for him to join the nWo because of the booking.

1. Hogan first met Rock and asked for a picture with him
because the Rock is the favorite wrestler of Hogan's son.

2. Rock admitted in that big RAW Hogan-Rock promo that
he was, in fact, a huge Hogan mark at one time.

Mutual admiration.

Of course, given the history of WWF booking, they are
well-known for turning wrestlers without reason. Why
did the Hardy's get back together? No reason. Why did
Austin turn heel -and- ally with Vince at WM 17? They
specifically gave no reason at the following RAW. Its
a pattern. So really the WWF feels anyone can be turned
heel to suit their needs at any time and they don't
need Jericho for anything.
The Vile One
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#7 Posted on 16.3.02 1533.45
Reposted on: 16.3.09 1534.49
Judging by the booking now, the split seems iminent. What if WWF does a draw angle or make it so Jericho keeps a title and HHH keeps a title. I personally think that would be stupid, b/c everyone wants to see a straight match tomorrow. But with 2 federations, doesn't each one need a world champ? Or will they create a new world title for WWF 2?
Excalibur05
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#8 Posted on 16.3.02 1557.33
Reposted on: 16.3.09 1559.02

    Originally posted by The Vile One
    Judging by the booking now, the split seems iminent. What if WWF does a draw angle or make it so Jericho keeps a title and HHH keeps a title. I personally think that would be stupid, b/c everyone wants to see a straight match tomorrow. But with 2 federations, doesn't each one need a world champ? Or will they create a new world title for WWF 2?


Stephi gets 50% of everything from Hunter in the divorce.

That INCLUDES 50% of his title belts.
The Vile One
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#9 Posted on 16.3.02 1604.39
Reposted on: 16.3.09 1604.46
How do wrestling titles even count? I mean didn't she even sell her stock in the company already?
Excalibur05
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#10 Posted on 16.3.02 1617.13
Reposted on: 16.3.09 1618.22

    Originally posted by The Vile One
    How do wrestling titles even count? I mean didn't she even sell her stock in the company already?


Logic < Wrestling.

I doesn't have to make sense, as long as it fits the current storyline.
Enojado Viento
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#11 Posted on 16.3.02 2225.10
Reposted on: 16.3.09 2229.02
But if the divorce settlement is where the split happens, then what the hell was that silly boardroom drama Monday about?

Besides Vince demonstrating that "Hey, watch my neck digest and regurgitate my head!" trick, I mean.

I know, none of us like to think about it, but the shortest route would be for Flair to say "Screw this, I'm a half-owner (given how many there were on the board of directors Monday, the 50/50 split looks really dubious or the WWF doesn't know fractions worth a damn) so I'm taking my ball and leaving the sandbox."

Just an idea. Secession sounds a lot better than the belts being relegated to the same status as a dog.

Excalibur05
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#12 Posted on 17.3.02 0340.07
Reposted on: 17.3.09 0345.31
Of course the split will happen seperately.

Ric will have his backers and Vince will have his.

Steph (and by proxy Vince's WWF) will get one of the belts in the divorce and will hand it over to Jericho. The VWWF will recognize Jericho as World Champion (with the WWF Belt?)

HHH who is really the real champ will get the other belt (the WCW?) and Flair (the sane one in all this) will bring him over to the FWWF.

Thus two companies, two belts. Two storys leading to the same destination.
Ike
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#13 Posted on 17.3.02 0420.03
Reposted on: 17.3.09 0429.02
If, after the split, Vince and Steph continue to dominate BOTH shows, I think we can say that they have completely lost touch with the real world.

Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a really bad horror movie. You know the ones where you scream at one of the characters about to be slaughtered because s/he's an oblivious idiot. Except here we're screaming "get off the TV you idiots! You're ruining a perfectly good show about wrestling!"

*sigh*
Ubermonkeys
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#14 Posted on 17.3.02 0537.29
Reposted on: 17.3.09 0540.49
You know, it sounded like a good idea before, but...

If a guy is champ, we're supposed to assume he OWNS the belt?

Yeah yeah, logic schmogic, but how in the fuck does that work? Is it like selling a used car? And you don't even get a choice, because usually some fucking ref just takes it from ringside and GIVES it to the other guy if you lose.

And if you OWN it, why the fuck would you bring it to ringside? Keep it at home in the bathroom next to the pile of Readers Digests. Fuck the other guy if he wins- he can call himself champ all he wants, but you still got DA BELT.

Of course, Flair did buy that one belt and actually did own it while it was trading hands... but Flair is a fucking idiot and a racist ("Jap slap" Nitro) and I don't really care.


I was going to point out that Rock joining the NWO would be

a) gay (I'm a homophobe!)

and

b) stupid, since they tried to MURDER HIM AND ALL

...and then I remembered that Austin and HHH seemed to get along ok after Stone Cold tried to kill him, but failed, as Triple H is UNBREAKABLE.


Also, every mention of Jericho joining the NWO is DUMB DUMB DUMB and just WON'T happen. It doesn't make sense now, it never will make sense, so SHUT UP. Please.

Hey, remember how Jericho was so OBVIOUSLY going to join DX because there was some screenshot from a video game posted where his name was "X-Calibur"?

Fucking christ.


Of course, if Jericho does join the NWO, then the WWF is totally fucking stupid and I refuse to own up to any "I told you sos".

(edited by Ubermonkeys on 17.3.02 0638)
Dr Unlikely
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#15 Posted on 17.3.02 1139.34
Reposted on: 17.3.09 1139.34
Vaguely related to this, I think they could at least tease Rock going the nWo no matter who wins tonight. Raw can have Hogan come out, call out the Rock, and show tell him about how the fans once loved Hogan but turned on him. He can talk about the fans being fickle, and show old WWF footage of Third Generation Superstar Rocky Maivia being mercilessly booed by the fans in his IC Champ/"Rocky Sucks!"/"Die Rocky Die!" days, then hand The Rock an nWo shirt or something and leave the ring, giving Rock something to think about. Poison!
Texas Kelly
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#16 Posted on 18.3.02 1330.11
Reposted on: 18.3.09 1336.51
Congratulations to Jean Paul Levesque and Stephanie McMahon on destroying the career of the man who could have taken the company to the next level. You, Stephanie, made him out to be a nothing leading up to the match with your STUPID, SELF-CENTERED booking, and then you, Jean Paul, essentially squashed him in what should have been his moment of glory. I guess your fellow Cliquesters reminded you that your needs are more important than the company's again, huh?

I hope the two of you ROT when the WWF starts floundering because there's no one convincing to put a challenge to the power the two of you wield, both in front and behind the camera. Maybe then you'll understand why you need to MAKE NEW STARS.

(Yeah, I'm bitter. YOU THINK?) x_x
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#17 Posted on 18.3.02 1426.41
Reposted on: 18.3.09 1428.18

    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
    Congratulations to Jean Paul Levesque and Stephanie McMahon on destroying the career of the man who could have taken the company to the next level. You, Stephanie, made him out to be a nothing leading up to the match with your STUPID, SELF-CENTERED booking, and then you, Jean Paul, essentially squashed him in what should have been his moment of glory. I guess your fellow Cliquesters reminded you that your needs are more important than the company's again, huh?

    I hope the two of you ROT when the WWF starts floundering because there's no one convincing to put a challenge to the power the two of you wield, both in front and behind the camera. Maybe then you'll understand why you need to MAKE NEW STARS.

    (Yeah, I'm bitter. YOU THINK?) x_x



Um, they let Jericho be the first undisputed champ, EVER. That's pretty big deal. He also got wins over Austin and Rock. He had the belt for four friggin' months. That's a long time nowadays. The WWF DID make a new star. And that new star's time with the belt passed, just like it did for Angle and others. Jericho will be back, so get over it. And besides, casual fans do NOT dig Jericho. Everyone at my place last night was bored with him, and kept questioning why the WWF would even make him the champ in the first place. I heard a few "he's too small's" coming from people last night too. And this is not to say that I don't like Jericho, 'cause I do. I'm a big fan of his. But peopel don't give the WWF enough credit for giving Jericho the ball for as long as they did. He had his time for now, and he will be back. Putting the face over at WM for the title was the RIGHT thing to do.
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#18 Posted on 18.3.02 1437.44
Reposted on: 18.3.09 1453.34
THANKYOU, Eradicator. People seem to think that Jericho should just go on a massive undefeated streak until he's the biggest heel the company's ever seen. Why? Why should he get any better treatment or bigger push than EVERY single first-time WWF champion in recent memory? His ring-work, while good, isn't blow-away, and his heel persona is cliched and stupid. Triple H is over, he's fought back from a near-career ending injury, and he's earnt those two titles he's got right now. Hey, remember when Trips injured himself and BUSTED HIS ASS to finish the match rather than call it off? Oh, wow, what an asshole!

For God's sake, Jericho has gotten the biggest push for a new WWF Champ than any other in history. He's the first-ever Undisputed Champion. He beat Rock and Austin in one night, then beat each man AGAIN on the two following pay-per-views. He got the better of Trips in every stage of the feud building up to Mania. And STILL that's not enough. I mean, geez, if this was the multitalented Kurt Angle we were talking about I could somewhat understand the uproar, but Jericho hasn't even proven himself as a major star in his championship tenure.

Jericho IS a main eventer now, and he's got possible feuds with Rock, Austin, Hunter, Flair, and Hogan to keep him busy over the summer. With only himself, Angle and the nWo making up the heel main eventers, he's gonna have more the enough opportunities to prove himself again. So quit bitching because he did the time-honoured Mania tradition and laid down for the returning face in the main event.

AH HAVE SPOKUN!
Texas Kelly
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#19 Posted on 18.3.02 1443.02
Reposted on: 18.3.09 1456.02
Jericho never truly got the ball.

When he first won the title and the buildup to the Royal Rumble commenced, Jericho got overshadowed by Triple H's return and the buildup to the Rumble itself. Plus, since he'd already beaten the Rock in singles matches at Vengeance and No Mercy, the actual title defense was "hold the potatoes", if you know what I mean.

When the WWF should have been building up Jericho v. Austin at No Way Out, the focus was instead upon Vince as Crazy Old Man and the impending return of the NWO. Jericho got absolutely no rub in the actual title defense because he did not win the match cleanly (Austin had to get beat up 3-on-1 before Jericho could win).

When the WWF should have been focusing on Triple H and Jericho's immense hatred for each other, they were instead concentrating on lame sex jokes, Corvettes cut in half, and dogs getting run over. Jericho wasn't even a thought to the bookers until the week before the show, and then he got jobbed out last night.

Jericho never got the ball.

Therefore, the WWF didn't make a new star.

You said it yourself... the casual fan does not buy in to Jericho. And that's because the creative team doesn't care about him enough to make him out to be a serious threat. If they did so, the casual fan would buy into him. You could have made the same comments about Shawn Michaels as champion because of his size. People bought into Shawn because he could work (which Jericho can do) and because the creative team MADE HIM A THREAT. If Jericho had gotten the same treatment; if we'd gotten four weeks of promos like the one we had on Smackdown, I would not be so bitter because Jericho actually would have gotten something in the deal.

But Jericho was made out to be a total nobody and then jobbed out. That's the glass ceiling at work again.
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#20 Posted on 18.3.02 1446.23
Reposted on: 18.3.09 1457.55
HHH winning the titles was a given, really. Mania is pretty much the blow-off for the year's feuds and stories. And the driving story of 2001 (ignoring Invasion) was HHH's injury and comeback. HHH's title win on Sunday was the final chapter of that -- it cemented his return to the main event and was the big pay-off for his 8 months of rehab. It was the same deal last year with Austin. His return was the big story of 2000. The story there was the same as HHH -- after months of hard work and rehab, he comes back and establishes himself as the champion by winning the title at Wrestlemania. The only difference here was that Austin's win was also a heel turn, while HHH's win was a clean babyface win.
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